Loading a reel in daylight (start of) 8-years and over(!)

[maddalice]

I contacted my old teacher and asked her how was it I could load a reel at 8 years old but had trouble doing it now. The thing is, I'd just plain forgotten her technique. We loaded the first few centimetres IN DAYLIGHT, then held it in place by a piece of tape. Once in the darkroom, we released the film from the cassette, carefully peeled off the tape, wound on the film. The method works even better with a changing bag. Childsplay, ha!

[stuart_pratt]

I contacted my old teacher and asked her how was it I could load a reel at 8 years old but had trouble doing it now. The thing is, I'd just plain forgotten her technique. We loaded the first few centimetres IN DAYLIGHT, then held it in place by a piece of tape. Once in the darkroom, we released the film from the cassette, carefully peeled off the tape, wound on the film. The method works even better with a changing bag. Childsplay, ha!

[ATTACH]1335291[/ATTACH]

Neat idea, but you might want to consider the possibility of scratches on the negs by pulling the film through the light trap on the canister more often (OK, only once more often) than you need to. One tiny bit of grit in there could ruin your negs. Same reason I never squeegee the film. I always prise off the 'lid' of the canister and empty the film out before loading so I can avoid this problem. This method has its flaws though:

 

1. You have no possibility of reloading the film in the cassette should something bad go wrong, like you drop the reel on the floor, cant find it, and need to turn the light back on (hell WHO would do that!) ;)

2. You cant do what you suggest above, as you'd not be able to take the canister off the film without releasing the film from the reel.

 

Having always done it this way, I have no idea how much risk there really is of scratches, maybe someone who always loads with the film still in the can, can give us a clue.

[maddalice]

Neat idea, but you might want to consider the possibility of scratches on the negs by pulling the film through the light trap on the canister more often (OK, only once more often) than you need to. One tiny bit of grit in there could ruin your negs. Same reason I never squeegee the film. I always prise off the 'lid' of the canister and empty the film out before loading so I can avoid this problem. This method has its flaws though:

 

1. You have no possibility of reloading the film in the cassette should something bad go wrong, like you drop the reel on the floor, cant find it, and need to turn the light back on (hell WHO would do that!) ;)

2. You cant do what you suggest above, as you'd not be able to take the canister off the film without releasing the film from the reel.

 

Having always done it this way, I have no idea how much risk there really is of scratches, maybe someone who always loads with the film still in the can, can give us a clue.

Hi, this is how we did it at school. Can't remember a fail. Alice.

[Henricvs]

Brilliant!

[James G. Dainis]

Loading 120 film on a Paterson reel was always a problem. The wide film would tend to curl and come off the side lands. That tape idea would work wonders with that. My method was to cut a square of cardboard from the film box and lay it across the first lands. Then it was easy to start the film loading across it with no curling in.

[Alan Marcus]

First --- make sure the reel is clean. Put the reel in the dishwahser with your dishes. Use Windex and a soft cloth to polish. This will help reduce the friction and allow the film to load.

[maddalice]

First --- make sure the reel is clean. Put the reel in the dishwahser with your dishes. Use Windex and a soft cloth to polish. This will help reduce the friction and allow the film to load.

Thank you but I don't have a dishwasher and have we don't have Windex in the UK, ha!

[Moving On]

Dishwashing liquid, warm water, and an old repurposed toothbrush will work fine.

 

And for window cleaner....

https://www.amazon.co.uk/HG-streak-free-cleaner-removes-quickly/dp/B000IU3W7K/ref=sr_1_25_sspa?keywords=window+cleaner+spray&qid=1585684888&sr=8-25-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyQllZNVdYVFZBRkJKJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwOTM4MjYyMUFYOTZWQkxGQllIMiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNTQzNzgwM0EzVlI0WjhBVFlIViZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX210ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

[AJG]

The key component in Windex is ammonia--I don't know if you can buy that in the UK, especially under current conditions.

[maddalice]

I contacted my old teacher and asked her how was it I could load a reel at 8 years old but had trouble doing it now. The thing is, I'd just plain forgotten her technique. We loaded the first few centimetres IN DAYLIGHT, then held it in place by a piece of tape. Once in the darkroom, we released the film from the cassette, carefully peeled off the tape, wound on the film. The method works even better with a changing bag. Childsplay, ha!

[ATTACH]1335291[/ATTACH]

Update (courtesy of the best teacher in the world): Bend over the end of the film leader and slip it over the grippers. Same applies with a SS reel. The film is solidly held in position while you unreel it (even stayed on the reel when I dropped it, ha(!). Again, all this can be done in daylight.

 

 

[Tony Parsons]

Sorry if I'm preaching to the converted (or even convoluted ;)) but when I was doing this, way back in nineteen hundred and frozen-to-death, I always used to trim the corners before starting to load, making sure I did not cut through a sprocket hole, so that there was marginally less width of film to go into the beginning of the spiral. From what I recall, this used to work 'most of the time' - YMMV.

 

Good Luck

[Ed_Ingold]

The key component in Windex is ammonia--I don't know if you can buy that in the UK, especially under current conditions.

The key ingredients in Windex are isopropyl alcohol, ethylene glycol mono-butyl ether and detergent. Ammonia is a relatively recent addition for cleaning outdoor glass, and should be avoided for use with plastics.

 

Dishwashing detergent (for hand washing) would be a good choice, both effective and non-caustic. Developing solutions will eventually attack the plastic and cause it to craze. That makes it increasingly difficult to push film iinto the groove. If there is the slightest bit of moisture, you're (literally) stuck.

 

The long-term solution is to use stainless steel reels. They are loaded from the inside out, and can even be used when slightly damp. They're polished smooth, easily cleaned, and last forever. They do take a bit of practice, with old film, in the light. One of these days I'll make a video showing the newbies and doubters how easy it really is.

[Gary Naka]

The long-term solution is to use stainless steel reels. They are loaded from the inside out, and can even be used when slightly damp. They're polished smooth, easily cleaned, and last forever. They do take a bit of practice, with old film, in the light. One of these days I'll make a video showing the newbies and doubters how easy it really is.

 

Only if you don't get one of the CHEAP reels.

I've seen some when I was in high school where the surface of the wire was NOT smooth. It was matt looking and when I ran my finger nail over it, there was definite friction. This was very different than the smooth Nikor reels. And they did not load as easily as the Nikor reels.

So if you buy out of the used bin at shops or camera shows, you HAVE TO look carefully at the surface of the reels.

[Ed_Ingold]

Wire reels not need to be perfectly smooth, just not have any snags. Unlike plastic reels, where the film is pushed in from the outside, through the entire groove, wire reels are loaded from the inside out. You clip (or hold, my preference) the end of the film at the core, then feed the film into the groove as you slowly turn the reel. You curl the film slightly to fit inside the flanges. You can use a guide, but that tends to scratch the film. I prefer to use my fingers. 120 film is harder because it is both wider and thinner, tending to buckle.

 

I've seen people try to push film into a wire reel. They're the ones who gave up in disgust after a couple of tries.

[rodeo_joe1]

Again, all this can be done in daylight.

WRT picture number two.

Noooooooo!

Do not try to load the reel with the cassette still attached.

Unspool the film and cut it free of any surplus weight and clutter (in the dark, obviously) before you try and push it onto the reel.

 

Here's a quick thought experiment: Can you push a length of string up a bent drinking straw easily? No? But that's like what you're trying to do by shoving film into a plastic reel. Especially those Paterson things. Much easier to pull a bit of string back out of a straw - similar to loading a stainless reel.

 

BTW, how is that doubled up piece of film going to get past the stupid notch in the spiral about 1cm ahead of it?

Edited April 2, 2020 by rodeo_joe|1

[Ed_Ingold]

Do not try to load the reel with the cassette still attached.

Actually it's not hard to do if the leader is free. Cut off any tapered leader square, and load the reel with the cassette cupped on the palm of your hand, held by two fingers. Your thumb and first two fingers guide and curve the film. The same procedure is used with loose film, which curls tightly as though still in the spool.

 

Most of the time, the leader will be rewound into the cassette. You can fish it out, but why bother? The spool end is always cut square, and held by tape which can be torn rather than cut, folded over and left on the film, going into the reel first. If you're in a job which involves developing a dozen rolls or so a day and deadlines, seconds count and the habit sticks with you.

 

There's no reason to cut a tapered leader for bulk-rolled film. That was done for backless Leica cameras, which were discontinued before 1960. The takeup spool in a Nikon F only needed one corner clipped off at an angle. The leader is last in, and doesn't need to be cut off to load the reel.

[glen_h]

WRT picture number two.

Noooooooo!

Do not try to load the reel with the cassette still attached.

(snip)

 

Reading what she wrote again, only the first short strip is done in daylight,

and with the cartridge still closed. Then in the dark, she opens it.

 

I am not so sure how hard it is to open while attached, but maybe not so bad.

 

Lately I have been spooling them the other way around, with the far end

in the reel first, but it does work either way.

 

Oh, the official Nikor instructions say to use strong nitric acid to clean

the tank and reel, which passivates the stainless steel. I have never

tried it, though, mostly because I don't have any strong nitric acid.

[maddalice]

The key ingredients in Windex are isopropyl alcohol, ethylene glycol mono-butyl ether and detergent. Ammonia is a relatively recent addition for cleaning outdoor glass, and should be avoided for use with plastics.

 

Dishwashing detergent (for hand washing) would be a good choice, both effective and non-caustic. Developing solutions will eventually attack the plastic and cause it to craze. That makes it increasingly difficult to push film iinto the groove. If there is the slightest bit of moisture, you're (literally) stuck.

 

The long-term solution is to use stainless steel reels. They are loaded from the inside out, and can even be used when slightly damp. They're polished smooth, easily cleaned, and last forever. They do take a bit of practice, with old film, in the light. One of these days I'll make a video showing the newbies and doubters how easy it really is.

WRT picture number two.

Noooooooo!

Do not try to load the reel with the cassette still attached.

Unspool the film and cut it free of any surplus weight and clutter (in the dark, obviously) before you try and push it onto the reel.

 

Here's a quick thought experiment: Can you push a length of string up a bent drinking straw easily? No? But that's like what you're trying to do by shoving film into a plastic reel. Especially those Paterson things. Much easier to pull a bit of string back out of a straw - similar to loading a stainless reel.

 

BTW, how is that doubled up piece of film going to get past the stupid notch in the spiral about 1cm ahead of it?

Hi. Yes, you DO unspool the reel, as I said in my earlier post. And the doubled-up piece is pulled OVER the notch - which holds the film securely. Thank you. Alice.

P.S. try it.

[rodeo_joe1]

P.S. try it.

No need.

I ditched my badly designed Paterson tanks/reels years ago for Jobo ones that load much easier, with no doubled-up leader faff, and with no kinks or notches in the spiral track. Also, the plastic Jobo tanks are only used with a Jobo rotary machine for C-41processing, or with a 5x4 sheet film insert.

 

All my 35mm and 120 B&W processing is done in SS tanks and reels that have always loaded without a hitch. The torn end of the film, from cassette or backing paper, goes in first. No hassle.

 

So why would I change something that already works, just to try something that looks decidedly chancy?

 

I still don't see how it's easier to pull the film out through the cassette lip while loading it onto the reel, and then have to open the can or tear or cut the film off the spool, all without pulling part of the film out of the spiral again and twisting it. It only takes a matter of seconds to remove the film from the cassette and de-spool it. Then you only have to worry about getting it onto the spiral. And if things do start to go wrong, you can tip the unspooled film into the waiting empty tank and close it up light-tight, while you turn on the light or open the changing bag to dry the spiral, your hands, or both.

 

Preparation and doing things in the right order are everything with processing. You don't want to be fiddling with measuring out and tempering fixer while you're trying to time and agitate the developer, for example.

Edited April 3, 2020 by rodeo_joe|1

[Tony Parsons]

 

Oh, the official Nikor instructions say to use strong nitric acid to clean

the tank and reel, which passivates the stainless steel. I have never

tried it, though, mostly because I don't have any strong nitric acid.

 

Do not drop cotton wool (the pure cotton stuff, not the artificial substitute) into the Nitric Acid - this make nitrocellulose, aka Gun Cotton. You could always tell the kids at school who had tried this - no eyebrows for a term !