Want a film camera - FE2 or FM2n?

[BeBu Lamar]

Forget an FA. Most unreliable camera Nikon ever made.

 

The FE2 is actually better made than an FM/FM2, and at nearly half the price it's a no-brainer. However, neither the FM2 nor the FE2 have metering that's completely reliable - by design. Basic CW averaging in both cases.

 

I really noticed a higher proportion of good exposures when I bought an F801s (N8008s) after using an FE and F2. I also had an FM at the time, which was rarely used. Whether that tells you anything or not I don't know, but the FE and F2 are much nicer cameras to use than a tinny feeling FM, IMO.

 

You define reliability differently from me. To me something that is reliable is how long it would stay working the same as new. Which in my opinion the FM with the simple LED readout is more reliable.

[rodeo_joe1]

To me something that is reliable is how long it would stay working the same as new. Which in my opinion the FM with the simple LED readout is more reliable.

If it works quite poorly in the first place, how would you know if it started to go wrong? It's centre-weighted averaging metering. Just one step up from sticking a wet finger in the air.

[Dave Luttmann]

I used an FE2 and FA for years. Great workhorses. More recently I have stuck with the F100 and multiple F5 bodies. To me, the F5 was the best ever made. That said, if I was looking at going back...FE2 all the way.

[orsetto]

KEH had an FA in EX cond. for $200. Ordered it

 

Yikes. Good Gravy Marie. You really should have mentioned that you were also considering an FA in your initial post, because nearly everyone here would have shouted in unison "not on a bet!"

 

As rodeo_joe and ben_hutcherson noted, the FA isn't exactly well thought of as a used camera option (and is rarely thought of in the same breath as the FM2, FE2, or FM3a). In its day, it cost twice as much (new) as the FE2 and was quite innovative in features. Ten years later, it had a fairly widespread reputation as a dumpster fire to be avoided at all costs. A great many of them no longer work right and aren't economical to fix. Basically its the Devil's Bargain of Nikons: the size of the FE/FM but none of their charm, the absolutely abysmal meter display of the F3 with none of the rock solid reliability or versatility. Like the F3, its an unpleasant chore to use in manual mode yet provides minimal exposure info in auto mode (tiny grey LCD digital read out of the shutter speed number: period). It operates (if it works at all) like an expensive brain-dead point & shoot: the only thing "vintage film camera" about an FA ifs the focusing.

 

Fortunately you purchased it from KEH, which has an excellent return/exchange policy should it be defective or you decide you don't love it. Hopefully you get a unicorn FA that works perfectly, and you like the meter interface. The 85/2 AI is a very nice compact 85mm, you should be very happy with it.

Edited March 16, 2020 by orsetto

[mike_halliwell]

GMC Sierra

Had to look up what one was!

 

So, am I guessing it's for taking you into the wilds, and the crawler gear is for rocky off-road venturing to places where you can use the film camera for awesome landscapes?

 

If that's the case, I think I'd go MF like a Mamiya 645 1000s. Built to bang in tent pegs. They're cheaper here (UK) than these 'old' collectable Nikons. Full range of lenses, including wides, shifts and macros.

[BeBu Lamar]

If it works quite poorly in the first place, how would you know if it started to go wrong? It's centre-weighted averaging metering. Just one step up from sticking a wet finger in the air.

You said it's not reliable only because it's center weighted? I can in fact determine if it works correctly as a 60/40 center weighted.

[James Bryant]

The FM2n is all mechanical and if the meter goes bad you have a good camera to use with a separate meter. I have 3 and the meter works in all but I also have a separate meter.

[bgelfand]

It's centre-weighted averaging metering. Just one step up from sticking a wet finger in the air.

 

Center-weighted TTL metering is one giant step up … from the Sunny 16 rule (forget about wet fingers).

 

A few years ago I printed some of my old negatives from the 1960's taken with a Zeiss Contaflex IV - my first 35mm. It had a light meter attached to the body, not even TTL, much less center weighted. I had some very nice prints - in fact the entire roll was printable.

 

I also printed some negatives from the 1970's taken with my Nikon FTn - a center weighted TTL metering system. Once again all the negatives were printable without too much work.

 

How would you know if the meter was malfunctioning? Well, consistent thin or dense negatives requiring high contrast paper to print would be a hint. <grin>

[mark_crown4]

I have both a black FM2N and an FM3A that I recently had serviced. The FM2N was from eBay for £110.00. The person who sold it just wanted rid. Despite a very slight ding on the prism, it is a nice later numbered version that is now brassing nicely. The FM3A was bought from Grays of Westminster in London brand new for the princely sum of £500.00 in 2000/01. It's the most expensive camera I have ever bought. I have not regretted it.

 

As to which one you should buy (in your case the FE2 as opposed to the FM3A) it depends on how you are shooting/what you are shooting. If you are in a hurry - walking, climbing whatever, the FE2/FM3A in auto mood will let you just compose and click.

 

The FM2N is not as quick to use as you will have to manually adjust the shutter speed and aperture - its more of a conscious camera to use - more deliberative - the sort of camera where you are prowling the subject matter, evaluating it as you lead up to the moment of truth - checking camera and subject.

 

The FM3A just shoots (I know this sounds like Ken Rockwell, but honestly just wind on the film and go). It's a 'reaction' camera. Having said that, it is how you set it up - a little under exposure compensation to pop the E6, a little more on the plus side for B&W; the use of the exposure lock for the contre-jour scenes; a flash exposure compensation button around the lens throat should you need it; DX reader. The self timer on the FE2 doubles as a memory lock like it did on the FE and auto facility of the FE2 will just shoot too. For a Nikon, the FE/FE2/FM3a/FM2 are not heavy cameras.

 

You know, I love both of them for different reasons like I still love my D40 that has witnessed my kids growing up.

 

Also, can I speak up for the 60/40 CW metering? You need to understand the ratio - it works. I have not had a badly exposed shot from either camera in ordinary situations at all. I've found it easy to second guess it because it has been nothing but consistent for me. The next thing is the viewfinder. Putting aside that it is not 100% I use the latest version of the screens on my FM2N and FM3A and find focussing more than manageable at 54 years of age - including macro shots too. I had OM-1's once and their screen was amazing, but the centre-weighted metering on those was nowhere near as balanced. The CW metering is as accurate as CW can be - and that's not bad at all.

 

Currently I use the FM3a for colour photography (E6) and the FM2N for B&W (but I have still got wonderful exposures on E6 too on the all manual camera too). The only thing that will stop the E6 is the expense - not the camera. The future therefore will be B&W one with a slow film, the other with a fast one.

 

Which one is better? Well, I've already had a scare with the FM3a which cost £200 plus to have fixed after 16 -17 years of use (and I haven't thrashed it either).Any FE2 will be older than an FM3a. As much as I am in love with the FM3a, the FM2N I think is a better longer bet - it is a more simple camera - there is quite simply less to go wrong. Just have it CLA'd and that meter will get you through the day. The older FM's viewfinder is not as bright BTW which is why I never bought one.

 

I hope this helps. BTW, you can use all of the shutter speeds on the FM3a without a battery in manual mode but you will need a separate meter. Good luck.

[Brian1664876441]

The FM2n offers 1/250th sec Sync, 1/4000th top shutter speed, and (limited) interchangeable screens over the original FM. The FM used Gallium Arsenide photocells, which did not require the IR blocking filter of the Silicon Photodiodes used in most Nikon cameras. The FM cost $50~$100.

 

You could get an FE2 and an FM for less than the price of an FM2n. Or- stick with an FM, money for lenses. The FG- reputation for electronics going bad, but mine has worked for 35 years. My FE2- works/looks like new. Weak point: variable resister can crack, same problem in the FE, EL, ELw, and EL2.

[Brian1664876441]

Should add- IF you wear glasses, the High-Point finder in the Nikon F3HP is worth looking "through". No need to look around the finder to see the full frame and exposure information. The manual states that the LCD needs to be replaced in 7 years. My oldest is 37 years, works perfectly. So do the other four. One was $60 from KEH advertised as "meter INOP". Only time I had issue with KEH's description, because it "OP'd" as soon as I put a battery in the camera. Nikon's center weighted metering in the F3 is 80/20, 80% of the reading over the center 12mm circle of the frame, 20% outside of it. Older cameras are 60/40. Once you visualize it, never let you down. I read the FA manual on matrix metering, being built by analyzing 1000's of photos. The problem is, I did not take any of the photos that they analyzed. I take all of my pictures using center-weighted, including cameras such as the N8008s, N90s, N70, and DSLR's Nikon E3 and Df. Edited March 16, 2020 by Brian

[mark_crown4]

Hmmm - the point I'm making about the FM2N is that whilst I had to save up to get my FM3a fixed it became my principle 35mm camera. It just seems to keep going. This is maybe the reason to pay more for a late one, CLA'd. My black one has been the best £110.00 I've ever spent - you'd have to prise it from my cold, dead hands. It was there for me whilst my main squeeze decided she did not want to play anymore. It's about simplicity and reliability. Even though the older FM probably has more real metal in it, there is no comparison in my view when it comes to the more modern focussing screens you can put in the FM2N.

[Brian1664876441]

Checking KEH- FM2n bodies are $340 or so, later FM (unofficial ver2, SN starts with a 3) are at $175, both BGN condition.

For that little difference- I'd go for the FM2n.

 

I paid $50 for my BGN condition, black FM- "ver2". I guess film is making a comeback. I had to change the light seals and mirror bumper. Easy.

 

Nikon FM w Kiron35~135 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

[glen_h]

 

(snip)

There again, I have 3 FM2ns because at ~$200 each they are affordable(and they're a nice intersection of weight/quality/features that having multiples lets me have identical bodies with different film types-I usually do slides in a chrome one and B&W in a black one).

 

(snip)

 

I bought a black FM not long after they came out.

(My dad had a black Canon, so I was used to the black.)

 

Two years later, I met my wife-to-be who had a chrome FM. After not so long together, I had slide film in

mine, and she had color negative film in hers. That was pretty much the way until digital days.

 

But having two different colors, to remember which one has which film, is convenient.

 

As for the OP, you might also look at the FT3, which is pretty much the predecessor to the FM,

and uses AI lenses.

[c_watson1]

I wouldn't waste the money on an over-priced FM/FE variant now that herd has found them the new fetish "must-have" for film photography. Given your lenses, I'd save a bundle and look into AF models like the 801s/8008s or even a sticky N90/90s that run rings around those 40+ year-old "classics." More advanced metering(matrix-cw+spot), AA-powered, bigger-brighter VF, motorized film loading+advance, illuminated digital range-finder focus confirmation and meter readout=superb MF cameras. Tough, ultra-reliable, cheap.Spend the savings on film, processing and prints. Isn't that what you're interested in? Edited March 17, 2020 by c_watson|1

[Ed_Ingold]

I'm suprised that the F3HP has not been recommended. KEH has one for $329. It is an extremely rugged, all metal body with minimal electronics. One watch battery is needed for the light meter, which lasts for years, not four AA batteries which last about one vacation day in the F100.

 

I have one of each, and carried them both on a 3 week European tour in 2001. Each had its advantages and disadvantages, but the results look the same (same lenses throughout). Twenty years later the F3 is going strong but the F100 covering is getting sticky and the auto-rewind gets funky at times. The F3 footprint is almost the same as my aging Leica M3 (1/4" taller), and the solid feel and precision is on the same level.

[c_watson1]

F3s are tough but far from immortal. Currently available examples I've seen are pretty "experienced" and premium-priced. Have two(early and late)with MD4s but never really bonded with them--too big with the drive, semi-awkward without. My early model suffers from a common problem: fading contrast on that teensy LCD screen that's long been unavailable apart from donor cameras. Electronics may be minimal by current standards but if the quartz-timed shutter circuitry dies, it's a plus-size paper weight.

[Albins images]

So here comes my 'memory lane':

- F801 was very good (incl. viewfinder, TTL flash, handling, AA's battery life), but glitchy sometimes (freezing entirely every now and then)

- F4 was OK (smallest version, TTL flash, 4 AA's, handling) , but glitchy too (new film pickup, focusing with some lenses despite the raving about the viewfinder)

- F3 .. was perfect for what it!! I DID 'bond' with it. Never failed me. Although TTL flash was cumbersome, and light metering indicators (and viewfinder lighting) mediocre as mentioned before. Never really liked the (HP) viewfinder's brightness, even with replaced screen.

- FT-N/2/3 are lovely camera's, but light metering was never their strongest point (whatever battery used)

[Brian1664876441]

The F-801/N8008 firmware induced jam: if you shoot to the very end of the roll, and the last picture is exactly at the end of the roll in such a fashion that the camera cannot advance it at all: you must drop the batteries from the camera and leave them out for a few 10s of seconds. Turn the camera off, put the batteries back in, turn camera on and immediately hit the buttons for film rewind. This happened to me decades ago on vacation with my new N8008.

 

There are a lot of great Nikon cameras, everyone has a favorite. Mine is the SP. After that, the F2AS. I'm happy to see prices going back up- for a while BGN condition F3HP bodies for ~$100 at KEH.

 

For the OP- pick a price range, but sounds like it's meant to get an FM2n at a premium. Do you wear glasses? That is my main reason for suggesting an F3HP. Want a classic camera- go for it. Want dirt cheap with lots of features- then you can get an N8008s with the same finder as the F3HP for about the cost of batteries.

[c_watson1]

The F-801/N8008 firmware induced jam: if you shoot to the very end of the roll, and the last picture is exactly at the end of the roll in such a fashion that the camera cannot advance it at all: you must drop the batteries from the camera and leave them out for a few 10s of seconds. Turn the camera off, put the batteries back in, turn camera on and immediately hit the buttons for film rewind. This happened to me decades ago on vacation with my new N8008.

 

There are a lot of great Nikon cameras, everyone has a favorite. Mine is the SP. After that, the F2AS. I'm happy to see prices going back up- for a while BGN condition F3HP bodies for ~$100 at KEH.

 

For the OP- pick a price range, but sounds like it's meant to get an FM2n at a premium. Do you wear glasses? That is my main reason for suggesting an F3HP. Want a classic camera- go for it. Want dirt cheap with lots of features- then you can get an N8008s with the same finder as the F3HP for about the cost of batteries.

 

Have shot a pair of 801s bodies for over a decade with zero issues--certainly nothing like the one one described. Curious how this "problem" persisted without a cure--if it existed at all. Iffy batteries?

[mark_crown4]

I will emphasis again that if you use FM3a screens in an FM2N you'll have no trouble focussing unless there is something you have not told us about your eyesight. I mostly shoot hyper-focally when using my FM3a/FM2N and I have lots of very accurately focussed macro shots too.

[Brian1664876441]

Have shot a pair of 801s bodies for over a decade with zero issues--certainly nothing like the one one described. Curious how this "problem" persisted without a cure--if it existed at all. Iffy batteries?

It was a problem with the firmware, and could be reproduced. This was in the N8008. I never had the N8008s do it.

[Brian1664876441]

I will emphasis again that if you use FM3a screens in an FM2N you'll have no trouble focussing unless there is something you have not told us about your eyesight. I mostly shoot hyper-focally when using my FM3a/FM2N and I have lots of very accurately focussed macro shots too.

With glasses- I have to "look around" the frame to see the exposure settings on the FE2 and FM. I do not have to do this with the F3HP and N8008s. Both have the same high-eyepoint viewfinder. I traded the N8008 with a couple of lenses even for a Nikon S4 with 5cm F1.4, 10.5cm F2.5, and 3.5cm F2.5. First Nikon RF I saw and owned, the owner needed an AF camera. This is when the N8008 was new. My N8008s that I have now- used to be a Kodak DCS200ci.

Edited March 17, 2020 by Brian

[conrad_hoffman]

Speaking of glasses, if you don't have much ability to focus or if you've had cataract surgery, you'll need diopter lenses for most older cameras, otherwise they're pretty much useless. I love my F3HP but can no longer focus it because I don't have a zero diopter lens to get the viewfinder image near infinity. I think it's normally at about 1 meter with no extra lens.

[orsetto]

There is a trend lately to recommend F801/80008, N90S, F100, etc, etc, in this type of thread. While it might be helpful in providing context (they sell for a fraction of the price of "the classics", take convenient AA batteries, can do AF, and have great meter displays): they're kind of beside the point to most OPs of most such threads.

 

Sure: some purists who still shoot film place all their attention on the images they're making, and couldn't care less what they're actually shooting with. You could yank the Nikon F out of their hands mid-shot, replace it with a Canon T90, and they wouldn't so much as raise an eyebrow or skip a beat. Others derive great enjoyment from using particular types of cameras: a large part of the joy of shooting film for them is using those specific cameras. Many "newbie" film users fall into this camp: they're sick to death of DSLR and want to play with something radically different in feel and ethos. If they're drawn to an FM2N, an F801 is not going to entice even if you tell them the metering is better and they can buy one mint in box at Goodwill for $35. The AF film cameras are neither fish nor fowl to someone who didn't live thru the entire evolution from classic film to AF film to DSLR: they look and feel like a crude DSLR that uses film. "Blecch" is they typical reaction.

 

The FM2 and FE2 are so popular now with newbies because they were originally on the market long enough to establish a reputation and distinct personality. They also hit a sweet spot between "too old to to use without major caveats" and "too new to be different enough from DSLR". All you need to ask when shopping FE2/FM2 (or FG) is "does the meter work?", because thats about all that goes wrong aside from occasional advance lever or shutter button jams. The FM3a was Nikon's attempt at playing Leica's "limited edition high margin game": very expensive when new, it was an instant collectors item and remains one today. If you can afford it, it combines all the advantages of the FE2 and FM2 in one camera body, but most photographers would be better off figuring out whether they lean more toward FE2 or FM2 and just buy that instead for a lot less coin.

 

Assuming we stick to Nikon, older models are often still reliable tanks that can be as much or more fun to use for vintage kicks, and available for much less or not much more than FE2/FM2. But they require too much study and care to shop for: the old Nikkormats come in three subgroups with varying degrees of lens compatibility, battery availability and meter cell tech. Ditto the Nikon F and F2: too many potential "gotchas" with the various meter prism incarnations, and occasional little trouble spots in the bodies that can be hideously expensive to repair. Legendary, inspiring tools to use if you know how to find a good one, but a minefield for newbies. The F2AS is my all time favorite camera, the FM is its kid brother backup body (I sold my FM2 years ago when demand first peaked).

 

The FA is not recommended as an FE2/FM2 alternative, because it didn't age well and tends to be afflicted with electromechanical issues. It falls into the unfortunate class of cameras that were groundbreaking in their time, but suffer from "pioneer syndrome" (the great new features compromised build quality until the kinks got worked out three models later). And it has the F3 "love it or hate it" minimalist meter display.

 

Which brings us to the F3. If you find one in good condition, it can be a great alternative to an FE2/FM2 for not a lot more money. But it is battery dependent like FE2, using on-camera flash is awkward, and the meter display (a dim digital readout of the auto-set shutter speed, with zero context or other info) is polarizing. The F3 meter pattern also takes some practice to use effectively: its excessively centerweighted for an AE camera. The FE2 is more predictable and usable as an AE grab-and-shoot, the F3 has more of a fat spot meter that often requires coordination with the exposure lock feature to use effectively. Experienced film enthusiasts can adapt to the F3 easily, newbies may waste some film before they get the hang of it. Then you have the early F3 vs F3HP decision to make: the more common HP is lower magnification to allow eyeglass wearers to easily see the edges of the screen. But HP entails compromise: the view is dimmer and harder to focus, and the already-tiny meter display gets shrunken further. I wear glasses, and whenever I've used an F3 I vastly preferred the non-HP. Try both before buying.

 

If you're on a tight budget and craving an FE2 or FM2, consider the earlier FE or FM. These garner an inexplicable amount of hostility on forum threads that makes absolutely no sense: the later models add a couple of features but are not dramatically better made or more reliable. Since the FE2 is electronic, it has less of a cult following than the mechanical FM2, so the price discrepancy between an FE and FE2 isn't huge. It usually makes sense to spend a little more for the advantages of the FE2, but the original FE can sometimes be had dirt cheap so shouldn't be overlooked. The FE2 included a brighter focus screen, TTL flash feature, and 1/4000 top shutter speed: if you don't need those, the older FE is a bargain. The old FE can accept the newer FE2/FM2 focus screens, so if you wanted a a plain screen or a grid screen you can install one in the FE yourself.

 

The FM2N stayed in production long after the FE2 was discontinued, becoming an icon to those who prefer mechanical cameras that can function without battery power (of course you need a battery for the meter). Because it was around so long, second hand prices never really crashed: a mint FM2N sold for an average $250 on eBay in 2005, and they go for 50% more today. Its indeed a nice camera, esp if you require 1/4000 shutter to use with high speed film in daylight or you need interchangeable screens. But aside from those two features, it offers nothing you can't get from the original FM. Build quality of the FM2 isn't any better (if anything, the faster shutter is slightly more fragile).

 

Claims that the FM2 screen blows away the original FM are exaggerated: its slightly brighter, but not a night and day difference (the old FM is the same brightness as an F-F2-F3, and nobody ever complained about those). You can't change the screen in an FM, but stop for a second and consider whether you would ever want to. The only options for the FE2/FM2 are plain matte with no focus aid, or plain matte with checker grid but no focus aid, and the "brighter" E3 and B3 screens are scarce these days. If you can live with a top shutter speed of 1/1000 (like 90% of every other 35mm SLR ever made) and a split image focus screen, "settling" for the FM over an FM2 means half the cost and much more abundant availability.

Edited March 17, 2020 by orsetto