SanDisk CF Express Cards are Arriving

[Mary Doo]

Mary, the Z6 and Z7 both have a USB-C jack and should come with a USB-C to USB-A cable. You can connect the camera directly to a computer and upload the images. That should be much faster than wireless transfer, especially for those Z7 RAW files. A CFx card reader is not absolutely necessary.

Haven't tried this for a long time but just tried it now. It is as inconvenient as I thought mostly due to the aggravation added by the presence of an L-Bracket making the USB port harder to reach. This CGx thing is a mess right now... LOL.

[ShunCheung]

CFx discounts have begun, starting with ProGrade, which was started by former Lexar executives.

 

[mike_halliwell]

So the're pretty much $1 per GB. Progress I guess....:)

 

I noticed an 'oddity' with Sandisk CFExpress cards different speeds, esp write speeds.

 

64GB 1500/800 MB/s Read/Write

 

128GB 1700/1200 MB/s Read/Write

 

256GB 1700/1200 MB/s Read/Write

 

512GB 1700/1400 MB/s Read/Write

 

Write speeds are almost twice as fast for the 512Gb than the 64Gb cards.

 

I note these are all advertised and not measured speeds, but it does seem kinda odd.

[ShunCheung]

I think the ProGrade 120G CFx card is a pretty good deal. The 128G Lexar XQD hit its minimum price around $150 in late 2016 to mid 2017, when Micron pulled the plug on Lexar, whose brand name was subsequently taken over by the Chinese LongSys. Now ProGrade is selling its 120G (instead of 128G) CFx card at pretty much that same price, but CFx is capable of much faster transfer speed.

 

Hopefully the competition will price match ProGrade and soon everything will be cheaper.

[ShunCheung]

Nikon Japan has an updated list for compatible XQD and CFx cards for the Z6 and Z7:

Z 7/Z 6 に使用できるメモリーカード（XQD カード /CFexpress カード）を教えてください | Q&A・よくあるご質問 | サポート | ニコンイメージング

 

You can find the Google auto translation here. The translation is quite good in this case.

Google Translate

 

ProGrade has gold and cobalt series. Only the gold ones are officially sanctioned.

 

For SanDisk, only the series ended with NN are supported, not the IN ones. See footnote #4.

[ShunCheung]

Since I capture a lot of video with my Z6 in these days, I figured that I might as well give CFexpress, as well as the new memory card company ProGrade, a try. Again, ProGrade was formed by former Lexar executives, after Micron decided to discontinue the Lexar brand back in 2017. ProGrade focuses on higher-end memory cards. Micron eventually sold the Lexar brand name to the Chinese company LongSys, which continues to sell Lexar products.

 

I inserted the CFx card into my Z6 and captured some sample images and videos. It all worked just fine, but then I could not pop it back out. The Z6 is similar to the D500, where you press on the cart to pop it out. The D5 and D850 have a specific eject button. I ended up using a pair of small pliers to get the card out. I inserted it into my D850 and it felt tight, but I could eject it without any issues. I then stacked the CFx along with one of my XQD cards together, and the sizes looked fine. However, it looks like my new CFx card was slightly warped, not completely flat. I tried to bend it back a bit, and it seems fine now. I'll use it for a few more days to see whether there are any issues.

 

Incidentally, when I insert the CFx card into the D850, it shows (card) Err, and that CFx card doesn't work with my XQD card readers. Will need to wait for new firmware from Nikon to use CFx on DSLRs.

 

BTW, that ProGrade CFx card is made in Vietnam. Prograde also uses a black and gold color scheme, just like Lexar.

 

[bgelfand]

So the're pretty much $1 per GB. Progress I guess....:)

 

I noticed an 'oddity' with Sandisk CFExpress cards different speeds, esp write speeds.

 

64GB 1500/800 MB/s Read/Write

 

128GB 1700/1200 MB/s Read/Write

 

256GB 1700/1200 MB/s Read/Write

 

512GB 1700/1400 MB/s Read/Write

 

Write speeds are almost twice as fast for the 512Gb than the 64Gb cards.

 

I note these are all advertised and not measured speeds, but it does seem kinda odd.

 

 

It is not that odd. SSDs, and memory cards are nothing more than an SSD, are a controller and one or more NAND chips that hold the data. NAND chips are relatively "dumb"; they can do one thing at a time. Controllers are "smart" and can multi-task. The controller usually has more than one channel (path) to go to the NAND chips, but each NAND chip has only one channel from the controller. Thus if the controller had eight channels available, but the SSD (memory card) had but one NAND chip to store the data, all the data would be funneled down the one channel, the other channels would not be connected, and the card could do one read or one write at a time. As more NAND chips are added, the controller can do asynchronous I/O on each of the channels - an I/O to each chip, but only one command to a given NAND chip at time.

 

Think of a memory card with more than one NAND chip as a RAID 0 device with each of the NAND chips as a disk drive. The SSD controller stripes you data across the chips.

 

NAND chips come in discrete sizes. To make a SSD or memory card with a higher capacity, more chips are used. Thus a higher capacity memory card has more NAND chips hooked to more channels on the controller which allows for more parallel processing and a faster response.

 

Writes take longer because a write has to change the charge on the floating gate in the NAND. It takes time for the charge to build up.

[mike_halliwell]

I noticed an 'oddity' with Sandisk CFExpress cards

I get the SSD refeerence and controllers etc, but it was more an apparent difference from SD or CF cards where they are often labled the same R/W 'speed', regardless of their capacity.... or have minor difference only.

 

The almost twice as fast big CFx cards was interesting.

[CvhKaar]

mm Doubt if the CFexpress update for the D500 will ever come..

Indicative prices for new D500 camera's here on EBay are about half of 2 years ago, and in the regular shops arround 60%, while prices for the chaeper consumer dslr's are still between 85 and 90% in the same timespan, so the D500 it is not a big selling product seemingly..

[ShunCheung]

mm Doubt if the CFexpress update for the D500 will ever come..

Nikon has explicitly said that they will provide firmware upgrade to the D5, D500, and D850 so that they will be compatible with CFx cards. However, the "standards" are still in flux that after a couple of rounds of firmware updates, still many off brand CFx cards are still not fully compatible with the Z6 and Z7. As big a name as SanDisk in the memory card business, only their newer CFx cards are compatible, but SanDisk is the branch Canon sanctioned for their 1Dx Mark III.

 

I think Nikon is going to wait for the dust to settle before their provide firmware upgrades to the D5, D500, and D850. Otherwise, they'll need to do it over and over as more and more CFx cards come on line.

 

Concerning the D500, it is a 4-year-old DSLR. Most people who want one have already bought one, probably a while ago. And the market is shifting to mirrorless now.

[Andrew Garrard]

Concerning the D500, it is a 4-year-old DSLR. Most people who want one have already bought one, probably a while ago. And the market is shifting to mirrorless now.

 

That may be true, but on the other hand a Z50 is no D500 (and arguably not a D7500). There will be some things it does better, but there are definitely things it does worse - much as with the Z7 vs D850. I've no objection to going to mirrorless if I don't lose too much functionality and gain something by doing so, but with the first iteration of cameras that's not the case - but they have to hit a given market position, so probably we shouldn't expect them to do better than other available dSLRs, except that we'd expect the Z series to be cheaper to make and we might hope that this would allow some realigning. I can understand Nikon not wanting to invest in another round of dSLR upgrades, but the reason I with they'd sell me some firmware (or give it to me if someone else will pay the development cost) is that I expect it to be a while before we get back where we were.

 

It happened before. Lots of complaints about the D800 not being a true D700 replacement (mostly because it couldn't do 8fps from AAs and there's a small but detectable gap between 4fps and 5fps full frame - though I'd claim the D800 in 1.2x crop and 5fps is a decent approximation). The D810 got 5fps back. With the D850 we got a 9fps with grip body that's back to being a poor man's D5 (although it has many more selling points compared with the way a D700 stacks up to the D3). And so history repeats.

[mike_halliwell]

Concerning the D500, it is a 4-year-old DSLR

If the photographic community had had it's way, it should have been 8 years old!

 

The possible D300 replacement was written off for years, before they somewhat surprisingly 'gave in' and made a very good DX sport camera.

 

Maybe if they hadn't waited quite so long, they would have been more likely to make a D550 or D500x after 4 years.

 

I fear that ship has sailed... although the new D6's AF sensor in a DX body would be awesome with unsurpassed AF speed and coverage (for a DSLR)

 

Is the D500 going to even get a CFx firmware upgrade?

 

or maybe you need the D550? :p

[conrad_hoffman]

... It all worked just fine, but then I could not pop it back out. The Z6 is similar to the D500, where you press on the cart to pop it out. The D5 and D850 have a specific eject button. I ended up using a pair of small pliers to get the card out. ...

 

I've had this problem with my Z6 since I got it, using regular XQD cards. I sent it back to Nikon and am not sure they actually did anything to it. My guess is their card worked well enough, but maybe mine is different. I only have the one right now. IMO, the socket they used is marginal at best. Card works fine in my external card reader. The trick to getting it out is to have sticky fingers and to push it upwards slightly while working it out. I think the lock/release mechanism is a bit sticky and it doesn't return far enough when you press and release the card to remove it. I've seen other posts on the matter and everybody wants to believe it's a design feature so the card doesn't fall out, but I say rubbish! This is my sole complaint with the Z6.

[Andrew Garrard]

If the photographic community had had it's way, it should have been 8 years old!

 

The possible D300 replacement was written off for years, before they somewhat surprisingly 'gave in' and made a very good DX sport camera.

 

Maybe if they hadn't waited quite so long, they would have been more likely to make a D550 or D500x after 4 years.

 

Possible, but then it's also possible that the D7x00 line would then not have appeared or been as capable - with the arguably case of the D7500 being pushed down in a few features in its market positioning (mostly the mount compatibility) compared with the D7200 in order to make room for the D500 above it.

 

I don't know how much the earthquake really messed with things, but I always suspected the D500 appeared mostly because the 7DII appeared - although late enough after it that Nikon may for once not have known what Canon was doing until they'd done it. Canon haven't done a 7DIII (yet), so I'm not holding my breath.

 

That said, niggles with the 3D tracking point acquisition aside, I'll be interested to see how much better the D6 AF sensor really is. Any form of eye tracking may be interesting, but for my uses I'm not that unhappy with what I've got.

[ShunCheung]

Here is another entry for CF express prices from B&H, on July 21, 2020 (today when I am posting this). Since there are so many CFx choices, I am only including 128G selections. The prices have come down, and if you buy a pack of two, they can be around $160 each. I am sure prices will come further down.

 

[CvhKaar]

Now thatte Z5 is coming, i think of "Upgrading" my D500 for this one and avoid the dependence of expensive CFx and XQD alltogether.

I can buy SDxx cards almost anywhere on the planet, CFx cards do not fit the D500, and XQD cards get scarce ( never have been easy to get hold of) and are expensive...

[Dieter Schaefer]

I can buy SDxx cards almost anywhere on the planet, CFx cards do not fit the D500, and XQD cards get scarce ( never have been easy to get hold of) and are expensive...

Well, if you need the speed of the UHS-II SD cards, then the cost is no less than CFx or XQD - only the speed is still slower and the package more fragile. So far, I have avoided the cost of purchasing UHS-II SD cards - they make little difference in backup-mode in the D500 and I haven't seen the need for them yet when using the A7RIII.

[CvhKaar]

Well, if you need the speed of the UHS-II SD cards, then the cost is no less than CFx or XQD - only the speed is still slower and the package more fragile. So far, I have avoided the cost of purchasing UHS-II SD cards - they make little difference in backup-mode in the D500 and I haven't seen the need for them yet when using the A7RIII.

 

Max speed of the Z5 is 6p/s , which is quit sufficient for an "old school" photographer who does never "spray and pray" anyway .. ( eh that rimes.. ;)).

 

So i guess i do not need UHS-II cards ( never used them not even in the D500..)

[ShunCheung]

Max speed of the Z5 is 6p/s , which is quit sufficient for an "old school" photographer who does never "spray and pray" anyway .. ( eh that rimes.. ;)).

 

So i guess i do not need UHS-II cards ( never used them not even in the D500..)

If you shoot video, UHS-1 SD could be an issue.

Edited July 22, 2020 by ShunCheung

[Dieter Schaefer]

quit sufficient for an "old school" photographer who does never "spray and pray" anyway ..

There are reasons beyond "spraying and praying" that require the use of fast and/or long bursts and hence demand fast cards. Utilizing a camera's capabilities is quite different from just holding down the shutter release button and hoping for the best.

[CvhKaar]

There are reasons beyond "spraying and praying" that require the use of fast and/or long bursts and hence demand fast cards. Utilizing a camera's capabilities is quite different from just holding down the shutter release button and hoping for the best.

 

I agree fully to that, but for that you want more than 6 p/s ergo not the Z5 i think.

But that is not my style, i seldomly have my camera set to serial shooting modes, mostly single shot is what i use.

So for me basic SD cards are ok because i do not have teh need for superfast shooting, hence the ability for using cheap memory media is a real plus....

[mike_halliwell]

Max speed of the Z5 is 6p/s

That's why I'd go Z6 with 12fps with the exposure locked....and 'suffer' with 12 bit RAW.

 

Pretty much same price cam at the mo', and I have XQD cards for my D500 and D850.

 

But will they work in the Z6?