Who Shoots B&W JPEGS

[Karim Ghantous]

Yes, I do. I shoot RAW as a back-up, but I never show those as colour except when I absolutely have to (our publicity mananger gently demands that I give them at least some colour shots).

 

My settings: neutral contrast for high contrast lighting, and +1 or +2 otherwise. I used to set the camera to +3 but in hindsight that was way too much.

 

Perhaps this is controversial, perhaps not, but I concluded long ago that digital does better b&w, while film does better colour. In the future I intend to get one of my cameras converted to monochome.

 

I do. I shoot black and white JPEGs on a Leica M8

For all its flaws, I should have kept mine. :-) Well what can you do. I obviously don't love it that much, as I have no intention of buying another one. The M9? Perhaps. It's still being used today, which is quite an achievement.

[charles_escott_new]

Mr. Shadow,s contributions are well argued, I would only claim that JPEGs are sufficient to my needs, I am in awe of what skilled practioners in printing and processing can achieve. Mr. Hutcherson, I do use yellow and red filters, it is what I am used to, the little filters for my old Summicron 50 are rather cute. Mr. Ghantous you are correct, the M8 is a flawed camera but one which engenders real affection. Have a look at an M9, mint, and a first generation Monochrome, mint, new sensor, listed on the Camtech UK site today. Had I the dosh I would be sorely tempted .Your statement that digital gives better black and white, film better colour, stopped me in my tracks. That is really something for me to think about, please expand on these thoughts. After 60 years of black and white photography I have discovered the joys of Ilford Delta for my subfusc work so my M2 is as happy as my M8 as they sit in my Billingham awaiting the next shoot. Both are pensioners if one film year is equal to seven digital, Charles.

[Ricochetrider]

Hmmm, I always shoot RAW in my digital camera. I was shooting Jpeg + RAW but I figured that by the time you load an image into a computer, do some minimal processing in post, and save it s somewhere, an image has become a Jpeg anyway. So now I shoot RAW to capture as much information as possible, do some minimal

auto-adjustments for light, color (or conv to B&W), levels & curves, possibly crop as I see fit,

(Composition Thread, I see you)

save it to my photo files and save it in Zenfolio, my host site.

 

 

A friend who has mentored me to some degree in both digital and film, always says he likes to capture as much information as the sensor can take in- once you have the. image, you can do with it whatever you please, so why not just get it all? Which seems to make sense to me...Aside from some "mentoring" here & there, I have been pretty much self taught, or just carrying on with little or no knowledge of what I'm doing. Clearly, some images shot in color work as B&W, many do not. I'm now learning there is, or was at one time, an entire school of thought on How To Capture Black And White Images, so maybe it's time to rethink everything? That said, I'm taking a workshop tomorrow on B&W portraiture- so my official education begins!

Edited February 13, 2019 by Ricochetrider

[charles_escott_new]

Sorry, wrong way round, one digital is equal to seven film, surely? I would love to have seen the Brassai exhibition, although a Ronis and Atget man myself. Charles.

[charles_escott_new]

I forgot to wish Mr.Ricochetrider good luck with his black and white portraiture course today. Not that it is easy but if you find someone with a characterful face it is difficult to take an uninteresting shot. Being rather portly I lack wrinkles but luckily I have friends who carry the facial marks of a lifetime of debauchery. My inspiration in this area comes from the work of Jane Bown , an OM1 and one lens, and Cartier-Bresson, whose portaits rival his street photography. Today I am shooting with a Bessa R with a Voightlander 35mm 2.5 and re-reading one of my favourite photo books, Eye of a Flaneur by Mr.Allard. I promise not to post any more nonsense for a month, print everything good, Charles.

[tholte]

Even though I love black and white images and spent a lot of time in the darkroom, I shoot for color and then figure out later which photos would make a good black and white image later. I am usually never right in what I think will make a good b&w as I take a photo so I wait to see the results on my computer and have a lot of fun experimenting, mostly using Silver Efects in NIK. I never use one of the presets because I don't like them. I combine different tones etc. to try and emulate what I did in the darkroom and I find it more enjoyable than I did working in the darkroom. Each to his own way of doing things, no wrong or right way in my opinion.

[andylynn]

I sometimes like to set my X-Pro2 to B&W JPG+Raw. It has some great B&W options and seeing the B&W in the finder can help with visualizing.

[Karim Ghantous]

Your statement that digital gives better black and white, film better colour, stopped me in my tracks. That is really something for me to think about, please expand on these thoughts.

There are aesthetic reasons as well as technical. But let's start with the aesthetic reasons.

 

Firstly, an image sensor without the handicap of a Bayer filter is a potent device. It is very sensitive and can deliver a flexible image, even in low light. Shadows are cleaner than on film, and, although highlights will clip sooner, apparent roll-off is nicer than in colour, as colour channels clip at different levels. In addition, electronic sensors cannot properly render light sources. A monochrome sensor can't either, but it is not as apparent, due to the lack of colour information.

 

Secondly, film emulation works very well with grayscale images, as there is not much to do. You can get part of the way with digital colour images, but there is always something not right, and filters can't rescue poorly rendered light sources. Ironically, the best thing you can do to digital colour images of light sources (traffic lights etc.) is to output it to film.

 

Thirdly, Lambda prints can be made from monochrome files. You get the benefit of the optical print with the benefit of digital acquisition. And the output will be more consistent. Expect more of this hybrid approach in the future.

 

The technical aspect is easy to understand. The M9's CCD sensor sans the Bayer filter has a maximum usable ISO of over two stops over the Bayer version. The Bayer CCD ends at about ISO 2000, but the monochrome version is just getting started. ISO 10,000 is possible. In addition, the resolving power of a monochrome sensor is true to the number of photosites on it, barring the use of a low-pass filter. The Leica CCD MM matches the Nikon D800E for effective resolution. Not the D800, the D800E. That's 18Mpx monochrome vs 36Mpx RGB.

 

Edit: I think it's still enjoyable to shoot b&w film, although there are almost no advantages to it these days.

[Jochen_S]

Sorry @Sanford, I'm maybe not getting your question &/ wonder if I count.

I tend to shoot RAW, if possible, period. The EOS is set to write those to CF. It seems powerful enough to also write JEPEGs to SD and I set it to to do those in B&W.

If I leave the EOS at home, I set the M8 to write RAW + B&W JPEG. With the Monochrom I haven't bothered to shoot RAW + JPEG; I mean I end getting a B&W file to work with anyhow.

It wasn't my choice to end becoming a digital color(!) photographer; the ignorant industry forced me to. Unfortunately I wouldn't have the discipline to desaturate every shot I take. The Monochrom isn't "all I might ever want, camera wise", but it does a good job anchoring me in the B&W realm (when I am free). Cameras accompanying it are meant to contribute to that B&W story and B&W JPEGs give me a first idea, where to go to in the digital darkroom and help with chimping.

I don't thrive to get everything right in camera; I am content with good enough, "malleable" files.

I assume that good B&W is harder to auto generate than good color. When I had film lab printed I got "a grey sauce" instead of the punchier contrast I'd tickle out of it in my own darkroom. "I'm feeling lucky" in Picasa performs miracles on color files but B&W ones need further work. Well you could "rescue" them by filling an entire sheet and overinking the run mercylessly during printing, so that your dot gain closes a couple of shadow tones to a solid (not screened) black. While that adds drama to the result it is of course not the right way to do things...

There is only one setting to recommend universally:

• Pick a white balance, before you screw filters on color cameras.
  

[Sanford]

Not asking about B&W Jpegs plus RAW, or converting to B&W from color. I'm interested in how people set their up their cameras for B&W Jpegs only straight from the camera.

[Sandy Vongries]

I just set U on my "new" P 900 yesterday - monochrome, slightly increase contrast, yellow digital filter, underexpose.3 - more as needed. Some cameras have a high contrast Monochrome - this does, which I use on occasion, switching from regular Monochrome. Test Shot

[michaellinder]

I never use one of the presets because I don't like them

 

Tim, I too am enamored of Silver Efex. Like yourself, I never use the presets. I want to be fully responsible for an image's outcome, good or bad.

[Sandy Vongries]

Thing is, what Sanford is interested in is Taking Monochromes, not Making Monochromes. As indicated by the responses, which you prefer is an individual choice. For all the reasons stated, there are viewpoints that favor either path.

[The Shadow]

Thing is, what Sanford is interested in is Taking Monochromes, not Making Monochromes.

And while I respect what Sanford wants to do and the different approaches talked about in this thread, this way of putting it may not tell the complete story. It could be said that what Sanford wants to do is have his camera’s software developers make monochromes. There’s nothing wrong with doing that, but digital pictures don’t just magically get “taken.” They still get made, by a user, a camera or software developer, or by a sophisticated pre-programmed algorithm.

[Sandy Vongries]

By that logic, it could be said, with a fixed focus box camera, that the manufacturer made the photo. The moment anyone adjusts the settings on / in a digital camera in a way different from the default, they are on their own. Equally, what can be done with any of the post processing tools is also predetermined by the software designers. Simply a personal choice of method. I spent too many years working with software to be interested in massaging digital images. Others feel differently.

[The Shadow]

By that logic

Most systems of logic recognize variations of degree as an important factor. Most people use tools others have made. That’s very different from using various built-in features of those tools and the degree to which they’re used.

massaging digital images

Such a telling and sad way to misunderstand part of the art and craft of photography.

[The Shadow]

I just want to be clear that, as I’ve said, I think there are some excellent reasons for shooting with a camera’s mnochrome setting, especially as a learning tool for more readily seeing or previsualizing in black and white, and various other reasons folks have given. I’m also quite content on some occasions to shoot jpg with my iPhone and work within more limited parameters than I do when I shooot RAW with my dslr. But I do recognize that shooting those jpgs still requires a lot of behind the scenes work, work that I normally do myself when shooting RAW which I’m letting the tool do when I shoot with my iPhone. Of course, the brain and heart behind the content and composition of the pictures are still mine, and those are not unimportant factors! :)

[apostolos_tournas]

For me, DNG or RAW or something analogous is the format of choice for serious (alas, inevitable) post-processing. Very few cameras produce high quality JPEG files. I can recall Leica Digilux 2 as a notable exception.

[ben_hutcherson]

Well, I went digging in the D800 menus and found this-looks like it has the filter options also.

 

[michaellinder]

Most systems of logic recognize variations of degree

 

 

Example of such systems: Fuzzy (possible called probabilistic) logic; it has infinite degrees of truth values other than the usual two. The law of excluded middle, according to which a statement is either true or false) has no place in such logic. By the way, the disjunction in the law of excluded middle is used exclusively rather than inclusively.

[Jochen_S]

I'm interested in how people set their up their cameras for B&W Jpegs only straight from the camera.

To get those there are 2 approaches. The classic one would be getting into the zone system and your spot meter out. The old Monochrom offers 5 contrast settings and it is obviously up to us, to understand & predict those, in terms of the zone system.

Otherwise we are down to trial & error. I don't enjoy setting a sluggish camera with underpowered image processor on a tripod take a shot, chimp highlight clipping & histogram, dive into a menu to adjust my contrast, re-shoot, rinse & repeat... The Leicas have no sophisticated exposure metering. For that reason I don't recommend using it for your purpose.

With a configurable MILC, I'd love to have contrast on one dial, exposure on another & histogram & both clippings in the B&W EVF. - That way I'd feel ready to produce SOOC B&W JPEGs in continous light.

With a fast camera I might go for contrast bracketing, if such an option exists. I wouldn't like to dare shooting for B&W JPEGs with an OVF in general, unless we are talking assembly line studio work.