Yellowstone and lens choices

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>Kent: Thank you. The 90mm is pretty light, but I'll look into the close-up options. (I have one for my Pentax 645, but I think it's the wrong thread size for anything useful.) And yes, I realise I may be reliant on the generosity of strangers. I'll get my wife to practise batting her eyelashes! Still, I'll try to minimise the "a bit useless, but polite about it" that's my usual strategy as a Brit abroad.<br />

<br />

Dieter: Good call on Mariposa. Thanks for the offline email (I'll reply shortly). The plan - partly because all the coach tours seem to be very restrictive on how much you can carry - now seems to be to drive from Anaheim (where I'm staying until Saturday night) to Sequoia, thence to Yosemite. The LA to San Fran drive is a bit long (though, I gather, pretty) - but it occurred to me that the segments take in things I vaguely wanted to see (like Sequoia) anyway, and it saves a flight. The nearest I plan to get to San Diego is to drive to the wildlife park (and back) on Saturday, which is fortunately not all the way.<br />

<br />

I might not have spent that long in Sequoia (oh look, another big tree...), but accommodation in Yosemite was limited, so I'm prepared to head up slowly rather than, say, going to San Fran and then heading back. We're looking at mostly being in LA on Sunday, staying near Sequoia that night; do Sequoia on Monday, unless people think I'll be sufficiently sick of redwoods that I should plan San Fran on Monday afternoon, then head to (probably) Fresno, for an early heading into Yosemite on Tuesday. Stay in Yosemite Tuesday evening, head to San Fran Wednesday afternoon and stay there, and fly to Vegas on Thursday afternoon. Then Grand Canyon Friday, Bryce/Zion Saturday, Antelope/Monument Sunday, staying in Arches/Canyonlands (what we can get to) Monday morning, to (probably) Jackson hole. Then Yellowstone Tuesday-Friday (or possibly Saturday, depending on flights). I'll certainly consider some of the diversions that John mentioneed on the way north, with the proviso that they'd be impacting my available Yellowstone time. Of course it may all change again as I try to sort accommodation...<br />

<br />

I think I'm back to advice: For someone not fit and inclined to a lot of hiking, am I wasting time in Sequoia that would be better spent saving me a day for Yellowstone? (I'd not fully registered that splitting my San Fran tourism would work... I've been booking while tired, never wise. Still, Sequoia to SF is quite a trundle, so I'd not have much time there.) I'm imagining a wide-angle, possibly a tilt-shift, and some macro facility might be useful for Sequoia?<br />

<br />

Antelope: Yes, I've been to the north canyon before, and know not to change lenses. I probably need the 14-24 on the D810 (absent a 24-70 or something - and I don't own the 16-35, which might also have been an opition). That restricts my options on a back-up DX body, hence the zoom query - otherwise, the widest I can do is 28mm (or an 8mm fish-eye...) I'd still value any independent input on whether Antelope south is worth delaying my route to Monument Valley.<br />

<br />

I can't thank you all enough for the input on this. Remind me to repay it when it comes to an area I know about. Tiddlywinks, mostly.</p>

[Dieter Schaefer]

<p>Some info on photographing Antelope Canyon:<br>

<a href="/travel-photography-forum/00cI4A">http://www.photo.net/travel-photography-forum/00cI4A</a><br>

<a href="/travel-photography-forum/00dA3q">http://www.photo.net/travel-photography-forum/00dA3q</a><br>

<a href="/travel-photography-forum/00acOB">http://www.photo.net/travel-photography-forum/00acOB</a><br>

And this one is a very nice guide to the photo locations in the Grand Tetons: <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Cheap-Photo-Guide-Grand-National-ebook/dp/B005EN738U?ie=UTF8&btkr=1&redirect=true&ref_=dp-kindle-redirect">https://www.amazon.com/Cheap-Photo-Guide-Grand-National-ebook/dp/B005EN738U?ie=UTF8&btkr=1&redirect=true&ref_=dp-kindle-redirect</a></p>

<p>Now to that California itinerary: I think there's enough to see in Sequoia to fill a day - and driving from there to SF and then back to Yosemite the next day isn't what I would recommend (plan on 5 hours minimum to get from Sequoia to SF; and about 4 to get from SF to Yosemite). Also, with Mariposa Grove closed, there's no real need to enter Yosemite from the South (unless you are coming from there anyway). If coming from SF, Hwy 120 is the most direct route while 140 is the most scenic (IMO). Yosemite is not only the Valley itself, you may want to go up to Glacier Point and maybe even take Tioga Pass Road to see something of the high country.</p>

<p>And again, GC South Rim to Zion/Bryce and then back to Antelope Canyon is adding a lot of unnecessary driving. More sensible would be LV - Zion - Bryce - Antelope - South Rim - Monument Valley - Moab. Your itinerary may not work out with the timing anyway you are squeezing some 9 hours worth of driving into the space of two days - you need to account for at least some time in the parks too. You are giving yourself about 1/2 day in GC, then drive that afternoon to Zion. The following day morning in Zion and going to Bryce, plus driving it all backwards to be in Page by evening (I don't think you want to risk driving to Page the day you are to visit Antelope Canyon).</p>

<p>Back to your itinerary: Antelope/Monument Valley and driving to Moab in one day - starting at 2 PM in Page (if not later) will have you arrive late in the night in Moab. And the next day, you are planning on doing the drive to Jackson Hole (at least 8 hours of driving) - when are you planning on seeing Arches and Canyonlands?</p>

[Two23]

<blockquote>

<p>might not have spent that long in Sequoia (oh look, another big tree...</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I highly doubt that will be your reaction. The trees aren't just big, they almost beyond immediate comprehension. They're one of the most impressive things i've ever seen, on any continent. I once lay on the ground beneath one for several hours, contemplating them. They make make you feel like an ant in comparison. Some of them were already old before Hadrian built his wall. They are leftovers from another time, when the earth was turning green again from being entombed in ice. Some of them will likely still be quietly standing there a thousand years from now. Of the five things I think everyone should see once in their lifetime, they are one of them. Below is a shot i took of the trees in Mariposa Grove, Yosemite. During the day it was crowded. I went back at night and NO ONE was there at all. I think they were afraid of mountain lions and bears (I had no problems, but don't go out alone at night in Yellowstone NP.) I brought x5 Nikon SB-25 flash and radio triggers, and took a few shots. Unfortunately, there's nothing to show the scale of these things. Each one is about as big around as a small cottage. The trees at Sequoia at very accessible if I remember right. Yes, worth seeing. Twenty times better than the Antelope Canyon deal. As for lens, I don't think you're getting the sense of scale here. I have the Nikon 24mm PC-E and it would even come close. I think the best shots might be the ones where just a bit of the tree is showing, and just that bit seems to crowd out everything else. It's hard to describe the feeling of serenity you will feel if you just find a nice spot, sit down, and contemplate. I would compare it to finding an isolated place on the rim of the Grand Canyon and watching the sun go down.</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p><div></div>

[Two23]

<blockquote>

<p>Back to your itinerary: Antelope/Monument Valley and driving to Moab in one day - starting at 2 PM in Page (if not later) will have you arrive late in the night in Moab. And the next day, you are planning on doing the drive to Jackson Hole (at least 8 hours of driving) - when are you planning on seeing Arches and Canyonlands?</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Or sleeping for that matter. All that driving just doesn't sound like fun, and I'm a guy that lives in South Dakota where we measure distance in hours, not miles. I wouldn't count on the weather being perfect every day either. It does rain, maybe even snow some times. </p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

[john_harper9]

<p>Andrew, check out Miles Hecker's photoguides on wyofoto.com - some of your proposed itinerary is covered. I hope you work out an itinerary and accommodations that meet your goals. Remember to reserve time to dawdle a bit in the parks.</p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>John and Dieter: Thanks for the links - look interesting and useful. I'm trying to leave some dawdling time, believe it or not!<br />

<br />

The spanner in the works for the reason I was driving in an odd order is Guano Point and the skywalk (I'm not interested in the skywalk, but the helicopter trip down is cool, having done it). That's sort-of en route to the South Rim - but now I look at your suggestion on the map, it <i>is</i> pretty awkwardly positioned: I either backtrack to LV to get north if I do it first, backtrack to Grand Canyon Village if I go after that, or backtrack around Bryce/Zion on my existing route. I'll look again at options and time of day; I could go back to one of my previous plans, and take the plane trip to the skywalk - but that takes as long as driving; shame someone dropped Lake Mead in the way of the route north. The talk of other pretty things on the route north from Moab makes me think maybe I should split the drive - it was a managable six hours to Idaho Falls, but eight to Jackson Hole. Doing this over two days does limit my time in Yellowstone a bit, but I'd still have a few days there. More deliberation to go, but thanks again for all the pointers. Silly question, since the web sites aren't all clear: are Antelope Canyon/Monument Valley tours likely to be less available on Sundays?<br />

<br />

Re. Sequoia, I thoroughly expect to be impressed. (There was a sequoia in the town where I grew up - bizarrely, because they're really not native to East Anglia, and it was hugely taller than anything in the area. I doubt it was much by Californian standards, though.) Thanks for the lens advice and the (welcome) encouragement to chill and take it in; I think we'll be taking the evening and at least a morning there. It's come to our attention that if we do get bored of trees, we're not that far (relatively) from Monterey Bay!<br />

<br />

At the risk of being on topic for the forum. I've now briefly attempted to use my 28-80 f/3.3-5.6 G on my D810. Results so far (at f/8) are not conclusive, but I'm not blown away. Has anyone seen a review that's remotely recent? The obvious review sites I check don't seem to have tried it (not that they'd say if <i>my</i> lens was duff, but they might encourage me to try again). Unless it was a nut loose on the shutter, I may be back to NAS (or possibly Tamron AS) for a mid zoom, or living with primes. Normally I'm happy with that, but it's more a pain on holiday.<br />

<br />

Thanks again, all.</p>

[JRCrowe]

<p>I have both the Tamron 24-70 and the 15-30 for Canon mount and they are both excellent. <a href="http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Best-lenses-for-the-Nikon-D810-Exceptionally-high-sharpness-and-detail-but-no-advance-over-D800E/Best-Zooms-on-the-Nikon-D810">Here</a> is DXOMark's list of recommended lenses for the D800. I like the Image stabilization on both Tamron lenses as I like shooting in low light. <br>

As regards to seeing the Big Trees there is another stand of Sequoia's about 2 hours north of Yosemite on California Highway 4. It is called Calaveras Big Trees. <a href="http://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=551">Here</a> is a link. The route will take you through historic Gold Country with some other sights to see. <a href="/bboard/">Columbia</a> Gold Rush town is fun. If you want to use Highway 4 to cross the Sierra Nevada through Ebbetts Pass its a very scenic drive with little traffic. After you drive around Los Angeles and San Diego a few days you may feel like driving off a cliff though so be careful. A nice place to stay on the Eastern side of the Sierra Nevada is at <a href="http://junelakeloop.org/">June Lake</a>, it is lacking in restaurants and some other things but is a beautiful place. <a href="http://www.visitmammoth.com/">Mammoth Lakes</a> is a few minutes way though and has most everything you could want. The nice thing about it is it's far away from the busy cities. Good Luck with your trip.</p>

[Dieter Schaefer]

<blockquote>

<p>It's come to our attention that if we do get bored of trees, we're not that far (relatively) from Monterey Bay!</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Andrew, I am not sure if you are serious about this - but that's easily 4 hours of driving, with another 3 to get from there to San Francisco. Going from Sequoia to Monterey is about the same distance as driving from Southampton to Liverpool (and there isn't a direct Highway connection).</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Guano Point ... sort-of en route to the South Rim</p>

</blockquote>

<p>You keep mentioning more and more things that you want to see "en route" - you just turned your 4 1/2 hour drive from Las Vegas to Grand Canyon Village into a 6 1/2 hour one by adding a cool 90 miles "sort of en route".</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>I'm trying to leave some dawdling time, believe it or not!</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Looking at your itinerary, I do have my doubts; there doesn't appear to be any time allowance to do anything at each destination! You have one day planned for GC - and now it looks like it will take you 6 1/2 hours driving time alone to get there (not counting the time you spend at Guano Point). Or if you "backtrack" from Grand Canyon Village to Guano Point - that's 4 hours one way (about the same as going all the way back to Las Vegas)! I happen to stay in Brussels and decide to take a short trip to Paris to have a look at the Eiffel Tower - that's what we are talking about here (though by train that's even doable).</p>

<p>You didn't mention when exactly you are going to be doing your tour - if it is during the 3 months that school is out here in the States (June 5 to August 25 or thereabouts) then you can expect to not be alone anywhere anytime during your trip.</p>

<p>I think you are cramping too much into your "vacation" trip! I mentioned above that I did some similar trip - but I was (a) traveling alone, and (b) not really on "the clock" since at that time it was mostly easy to stop in the evening and find a vacancy in a motel. You will need to have everything pre-arranged and always have one eye on the clock - that's not my idea of a vacation or of having fun. YMMV, of course.</p>

[Two23]

<p>If you are planning on being in San Francisco, be aware that it's now one of the top places in the U.S. for property crime. The city government has actively encouraged drug addicts and bums to live there, and marijuana is legal. The result is if you leave anything in your car, don't have any expectation of it being there when you return. Be prepared for able-bodied people to walk up to you about every 15 minutes asking/demanding money. I would definitely not be carrying any expensive camera gear out in the open. It's also a self declared "sanctuary city," where foreign criminals are not arrested and deported. There have been some murders. Not saying you're going to be shot just walking down the sidewalk, but be aware this isn't the place it was even five years ago. Wife & I were there a few years ago and won't be back.</p>

<p>And yes, all the parks and areas around will be quite crowded June to end of August.</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

[eric_arnold]

<blockquote>

<p>The city government has actively encouraged drug addicts and bums to live there, and marijuana is legal.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Sorry, but neither of these things are true. I live in the Bay Area, Oakland to be exact, which is across the Bay from SF, which is still the USA's #1 tourist destination. i dont really see the need to slander it or make hyperbolic and paranoid claims about crime. I was just in SF yesterday and not a single person asked/demanded money from me. Am i doing something wrong, Kent?<br>

<br>

If anything, SF has been gentrified and taken over by the tech industry, and a lot of local landmarks are no longer there. So see it while it still has some charm. IMO a bigger concern than mendicants is the outrageous parking fees, which can be $20/hour or more. Sure, it's a good idea not to leave valuables in a parked car, but that would be true in any major city in the world.</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>I grew up in Hong Kong where, similar to a lot of larger cities, there is a lot of crime, and I lived in the New York area for over a decade. I used to go to NY City at least once a month back in the 1990's, and I didn't think it was that safe.</p>

<p>Nowadays I go to San Francisco about once a month also. If anything, I think San Fran is a bit safer than the other cities I am familiar with. Of course you need to be a bit careful, which is pretty much universal for all large cities. Among all places, once my wife and I were in Switzerland late at night. There were a lot of young people around that looked like semi-gangs. Being Asian, we were obviously foreigners and I felt somewhat uncomfortable too.</p>

[johne37179]

<p>When I first read this thread I thought what a wonderful 10-12 week journey. I haven't changed my mind, but I an beginning to make plans for next year!</p>

[Two23]

<blockquote>

<p>Sorry, but neither of these things are true. I live in the Bay Area, Oakland to be exact, which is across the Bay from SF, which is still the USA's #1 tourist destination. i dont really see the need to slander it or make hyperbolic and paranoid claims about crime. </p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>My Aunt & Uncle moved out after being burglarized twice in 2014. I was last there in 2012, and have photos of guys pooping on the sidewalks and numerous syringes/needles lying about the downtown parks. What I couldn't photo was the heavy smell of urine in the stairwells. Not saying it's a sure thing something bad is going to happen there, but I am saying don't leave anything in your car you want to keep. Drugs cost money and the addicts don't bother with jobs. It's one of the few metros I'd never consider moving to.<br>

Car Break-ins:<br>

"“The city took 25,899 reports of car break-ins in 2015,” <em>The San Francisco Chronicle</em> <a href="http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/S-F-car-break-ins-up-31-percent-nearly-triple-6894503.php" data-omni-click="r'article',r'link',r'2',r'479880'">reports</a>. That's a 77 percent increase over the five years beginning in 2010."<br>

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/san-francisco-crime-policy/479880/<br>

http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Car-break-ins-fuel-spike-in-S-F-property-crimes-6775664.php<br>

http://www.ktvu.com/news/48226586-story<br>

http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/S-F-gun-thefts-from-vehicles-spike-alongside-car-6666110.php</p>

<p>Aggressive Bums:<br>

“Probably been approached 8 or 10 times I would say,” Phil Lucker of Fort Worth, TX, who was visiting San Francisco with his family.<br>

“Really?” asked KCBS’ Mike Sugerman. “How long have you been here?”<br>

“About two hours,” Lucker responded."</p>

<p>http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Aggressive-S-F-panhandlers-tourist-complaints-up-2310928.php<br>

http://www.city-journal.org/html/professional-panhandling-plague-13101.html<br>

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/12/19/about-the-bay-sf-union-square-panhandlers-aggressive-as-ever/<br>

http://sfist.com/2011/10/24/aggressive_panhandlers_blamed_for_s.php</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

<p> </p>

[eric_arnold]

<blockquote>

<p> I was last there in 2012, and have photos of guys pooping on the sidewalks and numerous syringes/needles lying about the downtown parks.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>So what? Are you actually implying that this doesnt happen in other cities? As far as car break-ins go, the fact of the matter is that SF has an income gap, and crimes of opportunity are part of the result of the cost of living being pushed higher and higher. Also, and this would be obvious to a Bay Area resident, but it depends on where you go in SF. you're probably more likely to find "sidewalk poopers" in the lower Mission than in, say, Pacific Heights. In any event, I wouldnt say it's a situation where alarm bells need to be raised and/or rubber galoshes worn at all times. I was just there yesterday and i didn't encounter a single instance of sidewalk poop or syringes.<br>

<br>

Also, I have to laugh at the "aggressive bums" comment. If you've ever been overseas, you've probably been followed by panhandlers, sometimes local children, who target tourists and ask for "baksheesh." Again, the notion that somehow this only happens in SF or that SF is somehow worse than other cities is naive. One easy solution is to not look like a tourist. They're pretty easy to spot. </p>

[Two23]

<blockquote>

<p>Also, I have to laugh at the "aggressive bums" comment. If you've ever been overseas, you've probably been followed by panhandlers, sometimes local children, who target tourists and ask for "baksheesh." Again, the notion that somehow this only happens in SF or that SF is somehow worse than other cities is naive</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I am pretty well traveled, and yes the SF bums are a bit more aggressive than other places (exception would be the ones in Chicago lately.) By aggressive I mean blocking the sidewalk, grabbing my wife's arm, etc. The income gap has absolutely nothing to do with the increase in crime. Your taking the "ostrich" approach is not going to solve the problems. More on the dramatic increase in car break-ins, which is my main point. SF has the largest increase in property crimes in the U.S.:</p>

<p>"Congratulations are not in order for San Francisco’s latest No. 1 ranking; the city with the <a href="https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/preliminary-semiannual-uniform-crime-report-januaryjune-2015">highest increase in property crime rates </a>in the United States, according to recently released FBI statistics."<br /> http://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/An-explosion-of-California-property-crimes-6922062.php</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

[eric_arnold]

<blockquote>

<p>The income gap has absolutely nothing to do with the increase in crime.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>you are 100% wrong here, but you are welcome to attempt to prove your argument by citing relevant stats or studies showing conclusively there is no causal link. crime is actually down in california over a five-year period, but up in SF. it's not coincidental that median incomes and rents have risen considerably during that same period. Like i said, i live in Oakland, so stories about people getting priced out of SF are extremely common. </p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>Guys, this is Andrew's thread about visiting Yellowstone and perhaps the Utah and Arizona national parks. As far as I know, Andrew lives not far from London. I would imagine that he knows what to do and what not to do in big cities.</p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>Thanks yet again, everyone. Thank you for the warning about SF - I'll bear it in mind, but as Shun says, I've managed London without anything happening to me, either by luck or judgement, and I've survived SF (when working) before. I'll not go wandering around dark alleys with anything expensive on me, nonetheless. I'm sufficiently paranoid that I hope I'm relatively low-risk - I'm too nervous to do street photography in the UK, and the different regulations on the right to bears' arms in the US makes me more careful still. (Even so, I've been stopped a couple of times in LA by people thinking I was a risk for taking photos of scenic buildings.) I've been wary of keeping anything in the car anyway - one reason to stay in a hotel each night. Not that it's hard to break into a hotel safe, but at least it's higher risk for any thieves. I'll definitely refresh my insurance.<br />

<br />

Alas, I'm during peak season - July 29th-August 13th, likely. I'm certainly not expecting wide expanses free of people. There aren't many in the UK either, at least near London. I'm choosing to believe they'll provide a sense of scale; there's something to be said for shooting off a cliff, on the basis that anyone in front of me will be accelerating downwards rapidly. I've been told not to rush the Tetons, and that they might be a little less packed than Yellowstone.<br />

<br />

The west rim was always part of my plan (in part because it breaks up what would otherwise be a six hour drive to the south rim). I may have to give up on that, but I'm a little wary that driving the north rim route to Bryce/Zion (which has been recommended to me by others, too) may leave me in the wrong place at the wrong time (particularly Antelope) for some other options; I'll check. I'll have to see what I can work out - I guess LV->Zion->Bryce->Page, then Antelope->south rim, then south rim->Moab is possible, but involving the west rim is painful - I assume there's no flight between them... I'm relying on the Google Maps' idea of times to get between places - I <i>think</i> I'm not restricting myself to a few minutes in each, although I fully understand that if I wanted the full Ansel, I'd be staying in any one of these places for a month; too many hours in one place may be wasted on us. I appreciate that it could go wrong, but if we need to skip places en route, hopefully that's possible. I'd not attempt this amount of driving on my own (but I'd also find another time of year to do it). A coach tour seems to be worse (other than that we'd both be resting in a less comfortable vehicle).<br />

<br />

Monterey <i>is</i> a new thought, although someone offered me free tickets. It's on the least-rushed stretch, depending on tree time. We can decide nearer the time on that one, at least.<br />

<br />

John: Thank you for yet more option to consider. :-) (I don't know whether I dare mention the possibility of adding a couple of hours to my Yosemite-to-San Fran drive by going via Mono Lake, because I might make Dieter explode...) I'll spend some of this weekend doing test shots with my 28-80 - I suspect I've got some trading-in to do, and Tamron will have some of my money. I wondered if I was being paranoid about my 28-80 shots, but comparing them to what my 70-200 can do, it really looks like I wasn't. But I didn't take enough to be sure, yet.<br />

<br />

Thank you again, all. I'll definitely try to come back with something to show.</p>

[Dieter Schaefer]

<blockquote>

<p>I dare mention the possibility of adding a couple of hours to my Yosemite-to-San Fran drive by going via Mono Lake, because I might make Dieter explode...)</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Nope, still in one piece;-) I did mention the option to take Tioga Pass Road to explore the Yosemite High Country - and the drive down takes you directly to Mono Lake. You may want to time this to see the sunset and perhaps arrange to stay the night in Lee Vining (directly by the Lake).</p>

<p>I was just thinking about the timings of arrival at each location - what are your plans? Leaving Vegas right away the afternoon you arrive or the next morning? No matter which scenario I look at, there's always some place you're at with poor light only.</p>

 

[Laura Weishaupt]

<p>It will be the height of tourist season in all of the locations you plan to visit. There's no reason to expect Tetons to be less crowded than Yellowstone. Many people will go to one, then the other. You will not really have time to squeeze in Monterey. You'll be in the Sierras and it will take more than 3.5 hrs to get to the coast. It too will be packed with tourists, as well as people driving the CA coast, and local beach goers. Mono Lake is in the other direction.</p>

<p>Check Rand McNally for road construction that may be in the works on any part of your route. Also, check their trip planner and compare with Google maps. Travel times don't take tourist season, rush hour, or construction into account. When you arrive in the States, you might want to pick up a road atlas. Don't depend on getting a connection everywhere. </p>

<p>Also, since you're going to multiple parks, consider getting an <a href="https://www.nps.gov/planyourvisit/passes.htm">annual pass</a>. It may be cost effective.</p>

[eric_arnold]

<p>I know a guy, Brad Evans (also a P.Net member), who's been doing street photography in SF for like 20 years; if you have any questions, contacting him would be a good idea. His website is <a href="http://www.citysnaps.net/">here</a>. </p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>Oh yes - thanks, Dieter. I'll be trying to finalise the bookings for everything over the next couple of days, so I'll certainly check options for your suggestions before everything gets locked down. I have friends in the San Fran area, so I might be commited to an evening - but I'll have seen them at the conference which starts all this, so it may not be an issue.<br />

<br />

Schedule... Here are my latest plans, which are becoming not entirely fluid, but are certainly still a little mushy (travel times from Google):</p>

<dl>

<dt>Thursday 28th</dt>

<dd>Arrive (my wife), stay in Anaheim; I'll already be there for my conference. Need the 70-200 for the conference.</dd>

<dt>Friday 29th</dt>

<dd>Disneyland, because it's right there. Some degree of recovery from jet lag/the conference. Stay in the same hotel.</dd>

<dt>Saturday 30th</dt>

<dd>Hire a car and drive to San Diego Safari Park (I've been, my wife will love the cheetah run). Google says 1h45 each way. Stay again in Anaheim. (70-200 needed for this.)</dd>

<dt>Sunday 31st</dt>

<dd>Drive north. Stop at La Brea for 1-2 hours (50 mins from Anaheim), then head to Sequoia (4.5h) and King's Canyon for mid afternoon. Then stay either near the entrance to Sequoia (if we're going back in in the morning), or - around sunset - drive to Fresno (2h) or similar and stay there. Hope to have at least 3-4 hours with trees before the sun goes. Mostly expecting wide angles for this.</dd>

<dt>Monday 1st</dt>

<dd>Either go back into Sequoia/King's for the day, then drive north, or head west from (hopefully) Fresno to get to Monterey Bay (2h45 from Sequoia). Spend perhaps 4-5 hours there, then head to somewhere obvious for Yosemite that evening. If that place is Mariposa (randomly looking at the map), that's 3h from Monterey Bay, and about the same from Sequoia.</dd>

<dt>Tuesday 2nd</dt>

<dd>Drive into Yosemite. Morning is free for wandering. We have a tour to - if I've got them the right way round - Glacier Point booked for the afternoon. Stay in Yosemite that evening (booked). 14-24 time.</dd>

<dt>Wednesday 3rd</dt>

<dd>Tour of the canyon floor booked in Yosemite for the morning. Lunch in Yosemite, then after however long we want to spend, head to San Fran - possibly (taking an extra couple of hours) via Mono Lake. 4h direct from Yosemite, Yosemite to Mono is 2h (via tolls), San Fran is 5h30 from Mono. That's possible, but a little painful, so we'll see. Hotel in San Fran, possibly with a late dinner with some friends.</dd>

<dt>Thursday 4th</dt>

<dd>Tour San Fran (Golden Gate, computer history museum, possibly Alcatraz); get a late afternoon flight to Las Vegas. Briefly wander the Strip in the evening (we don't want to spend that long). Stay in Las Vegas.</dd>

<dt>Friday 5th</dt>

<dd>(Assuming my original plan ignoring the north rim...) Drive to the Grand Canyon west rim (2h15), wander around Guano Point, possible helicopter trip to the Colorado. Perhaps 3 hours there? Then 4h (leaving early afternoon) to the south rim/Grand Canyon Village - maybe a little longer if we go the scenic route. Sunset around Bright Angel (been there, pretty), with hopefully 3-4 hours of light left when we get there. Stay in Grand Canyon Village. Definitely 14-24 at Bright Angel, because I've done that before!</dd>

<dt>Saturday 6th</dt>

<dd>Drive to Zion (4h), hopefully there around lunchtime, and wander for 3-4 hours. Bryce is an hour away, hopefully for 3-4 hours and a sunset (or the beginnings of one). Page is 2h30 away - arrive around 9 and stay there.</dd>

<dt>Sunday 7th</dt>

<dd>Possible scary early morning wander to Horseshoe Bend near dawn (it doesn't appear I'll be there for sunset with this schedule). Antelope Canyon(s) in the morning/early afternoon. Head to monument valley (2h) for mid afternoon. Catch the sun getting lower, then head to Moab fairly late (2h30), staying there. Sundown in Monument might be cool, but arguably so is twilight in Arches/Canyonlands.</dd>

<dt>Monday 8th</dt>

<dd>Arches/Canyonlands in the morning (Arches is more plausible, with mild hiking, since Canyonlands really needs a 4x4?), Dinosaur National Monument in the late afternoon (3h away), staying nearby(?). Or possibly DNM the next morning if we're running late.</dd>

<dt>Tuesday 9th</dt>

<dd>North to Jackson, possibly adding a couple of hours for Flaming Gorge. 5-6 hours travel, there in the afternoon hopefully while there's still decent light (I appreciate there are Rockies in the way) for Jackson Hole itself and the like. Stay in Jackson.</dd>

<dt>Wednesday 10th</dt>

<dd>Time in the Tetons, ending up in or very near Yellowstone. (Could just head into Yellowstone, but I'm told the Tetons are worth the time - what do people think?) Expecting a lot of 200-500 from this point on. Jackson to Yellowstone is only about an hour if we didn't dawdle.</dd>

<dt>Thursday 11th</dt>

<dd>Yellowstone tours (photographic flavour), staying in or near Yellowstone</dd>

<dt>Friday 12th</dt>

<dd>Yellowstone tours (photographic flavour), staying in or near Yellowstone</dd>

<dt>Saturday 13th</dt>

<dd>Time in Yellowstone in the morning, flight back to the UK probably from around 3pm (if starting at West Yellowstone).</dd>

</dl>

<p>Certainly I don't get to spend an entire day wandering around many places (other than Yosemite and Yellowstone), and some things (like Horseshoe or Mono) might be a bit painful, but there's a bit of flexibility if we run out of energy or time. I think it's still much less rushed than coach tours - it's not just on-and-off - and we don't need huge amounts of time for things like hiking up Angel's Landing or down into the Grand Canyon or Bryce. Which I'm sure are fun, but would break both of us at our current fitness levels (yes, I'm taking more stairs in preparation). Days in one place gives me more options for Ansel-like perfect weather and lighting, but I have a job to get back to. I'm hoping we can get a comfortable car so we can each do some sleeping while the other drives, which would make it a little less horrible. I drove five hours yesterday, with a twelve hour conference in the middle, and while I won't claim it was comfortable it was certainly possible.<br />

<br />

More of an adventure than a relaxing holiday, and we may regret the lack of a down-day (though it's possible for my wife to sleep in on a few occasions without losing me), but I'd hope it'd be an experience! I'm sure I'll come out of it, as you warn me, wishing I'd had more time in various places, but hopefully I can go back for a relaxing stint at a later date - I'd rather do the energetic tour before we get too old to cope. It's not like I couldn't do with the exercise.</p>

 

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>Laura: Thanks. I guess we might decide how we do in the Tetons and how quickly to head to Yellowstone. I'll certainly check travel and have non-electronic options (and also offline maps downloaded, though they may not help much on the longer runs) - thanks for the links. I'm expecting some variation in the timings, and for traffic trouble especially around San Fran. (Well, and Yellowstone when a bear turns up, but we've got a little longer there.) I'm hoping for a little more reliability on the longer runs, although I appreciate that a closed road could add hours.<br />

<br />

Eric: Good thought with Brad. (I didn't know where he was based, but I think we've either corresponded or shared a thread.) I'll chivvy him!</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>Back in 1999, I flew into Las Vegas and did Zion, Bryce, and Arches with a brief visit to Canyonlands all in one week. And I thought we were rushing it. With Andrew's itinerary from San Diego to Yellowstone, I would schedule at least a month.</p>

<p>But we have already discussed that earlier on this thread.</p>

[User_1891539]

<p>I think Andrew's going to need a vacation after his vacation.</p>