Yellowstone and lens choices

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>Well, now I'm at two weeks, so at least I'm only over-committing by 100%. That's actually quite good by my standards! You've all slowed me down a bit - and if we decide we need to skip some bits, I'm trying to ensure that's possible. And Robert: yes, absolutely. Fortunately I've probably got a week-long standards meeting to sleep in. (There's a reasonable chance I'll be spending the evenings of my holiday programming...) Thank you all for making this less impossible than I would otherwise have attempted.<br />

<br />

Now to do something about the driving times. Where can I hire a Koenigsegg?</p>

[johne37179]

<p>When you head north from Utah. I would try to route myself on Utah Highway 12... the most scenic road in North America from my perspective.</p>

[Dieter Schaefer]

<blockquote>

<p>Fresno to get to Monterey Bay (2h45 from Sequoia)</p>

</blockquote>

<p>That's Fresno to Monterey - add another hour if leaving from the Park itself (and another hour if coming out of Kings Canyon)</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Jackson to Yellowstone is only about an hour</p>

</blockquote>

<p>That's to the South Entrance - which is nowhere near anything in Yellowstone - add another hour to get to either the Old Faithful Area or Yellowstone Lake.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Bryce is an hour away</p>

</blockquote>

<p>That's from Zion East entrance to Bryce Canyon entrance - easily double that when driving from any place you can stay in Zion.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Where can I hire a Koenigsegg?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Right there in Las Vegas: http://lasvegasnevadaexoticcarrentals.com/rent-a-koenigsegg-cc-in-las-vegas-nevada<br>

Positive that it is NOT the car you want to be driving for your trip!</p>

[Two23]

<p>Grand Canyon in summer is very, very hot. Wife & I once did the hike to the bottom and back when we were in our thirties. You are wise to pass on that. The Tetons are mainly a morning shot, and I looked for but did not find any trails into them. It sounded more like a technical climb than a hike. All in all, I felt the time spent in Tetons was a waste and I would have had more fun either spending that day in Yellowstone or even exploring the high plains in Montana on the way back home. It was my wife's idea, and mostly I think she wanted to stay at the fancy lodge and eat at the restaurant there. Make allowances for the extra time it's going to take you to drive on the highways, find parking places in crowded places that have limited parking, and waiting to get a table at restaurants.</p>

<p>Here's what the cliche Teton barn shot really looks like. It's jammed with people. So, that's how I shot it. It's the only shot I got in Tetons that I halfway liked. I used a vintage 1983 Nikon F3T with vintage AiS lenses, black & white film quite a bit on the trip instead of the D800E and big Sigma lenses. The little F3T and small lenses fit into a very compact bag and I just loved carrying it. I think I used it just as much if not more than the D800E, mostly because it's small and light.</p>

<p>BTW, the story I've always heard is that "grand tetons" is French for "big titties." Used to be a lot of lonely French fur trappers out in the area ~200 years ago. Don't know if that's just a story.</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>Near the entrance to Bryce, there is Ruby's Inn. Besides motel and restaurant, they have sightseeing helicopters. We didn't try that when we were there. What I do remember is that from the ground, we found those helicopters very noisy. However, that is a way you can do Bryce in 15 minutes or so. If you are in such a rush, that is one way to save time and catch up with your schedule. :-)</p>

[Two23]

<p>Just a bit north of the south entrance to Yellowstone there is a small waterfall called "Moose Falls." It's not very big, but it's a very nice one. I've been to it several times over the years and there was never anyone else there. It's close to the parking area and an easy walk. You could almost push a wheelchair to it. Yellowstone is famous for several grand waterfalls, but it has many very nice small ones too. Moose Falls is about the only one of these you'd be able to get to, considering how little time you have.</p>

<p>The parks are crowded in summer, but here's a tip. Most of the people there will be families with children. It takes them awhile to get the kids up, dressed, and fed. They also seem to pack it in for the day about tea time. Before 10 am and after 4 pm the crowd is usually significantly thinner. Hopefully you are staying at Old Faithful Inn at least one night. I do suggest going out after dark and photo'ing Old Faithful. It's next to the hotel and quite safe. I also walked down to Castle Geysor after dark to photo it. I had the entire thing to myself during its half hour eruption! It was the most impressive experience I had all year. I shoot at night a lot and am comfortable out alone, but if you go for that geysor after dark I do suggest taking two other people along. It is a slightly dicey (bears). Easy walk though.</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p><div></div>

[johne37179]

<p>That is on Hwy 12. Boring for the next 50 miles and will knock you socks off from there on! Nothing worthwhile eating there!</p>

[eric_arnold]

<blockquote>

<p> the story I've always heard is that "grand tetons" is French for "big titties." Used to be a lot of lonely French fur trappers out in the area ~200 years ago. Don't know if that's just a story.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>ha ha, no. actually, "<a href="http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Teton">Teton</a>" is the name of one of the Sioux tribes who lived in the Great Plains. The equivalent French word for "titties" would be "boules" or ""nichons."</p>

<blockquote>

<table id="wn">

<tbody>

<tr>

<td><strong>Noun</strong></td>

<td><strong>1.</strong></td>

<td><strong>Teton</strong> - a member of the large western branch of Sioux people which was made up of several groups that lived onthe plains</td>

</tr>

</tbody>

</table>

<p> </p>

</blockquote>

[Dieter Schaefer]

<p>Well, according to two French-English dictionaries, teton means either "nipple": h<a href="ttp://dictionary.reverso.net/french-english/teton">ttp://dictionary.reverso.net/french-english/teton</a> or "breast": <a href="http://www.wordreference.com/fren/teton">http://www.wordreference.com/fren/teton</a>. Its use, however, seems to have drastically declined since about 1800: <a href="http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/french-english/t%C3%A9ton">http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/french-english/t%C3%A9ton. </a><br>

Probably best to have a native French speaker comment on the actual usage of the word.</p>

[Two23]

<p>Looks like it's a toss up between the two "Teton" stories, according to Wikipedia:</p>

<p>"The origin of the name is disputed. The most common explanation is that "Grand Teton" means "large teat" in French, named by either French Canadians or Iroquois members of an expedition led by Donald MacKenzieof the Northwest Company. However, other historians disagree, and claim that the mountain was named after the Teton Sioux tribe..."<br>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Teton</p>

<p>Could both theories be right? Could "Grand Tetons" be named for big breasted Indians in the mountains?</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

[eric_arnold]

<p>interesting, Dieter, but what are the odds that a French colloquialism would coincide with the name of an indigenous tribe which lived in that region? The Tetons were not dissimilar to the Lakota (the more well-known Sioux tribe), and <a href="http://www.pbs.org/lewisandclark/native/tet.html">actually interacted with Lewis and Clark</a>.<br>

from <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Teton">Wikipedia</a>:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>The origin of the name is disputed. The most common explanation is that "Grand Teton" means "large <a title="Breast" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breast">teat</a>" in French, named by either <a title="French-Canadian" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French-Canadian">French-Canadian</a> or <a title="Iroquois" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois">Iroquois</a> members of an expedition led by <a title="Donald McKenzie (explorer)" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_McKenzie_(explorer)">Donald McKenzie</a> of the <a title="North West Company" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_West_Company">North West Company</a>.<sup id="cite_ref-5" ><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Teton#cite_note-5">[5]</a></sup> However, other historians disagree, and claim that the mountain was named after the <a title="Lakota people" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakota_people">Teton Sioux</a> tribe of <a title="Native Americans in the United States" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States">Native Americans</a>.<sup id="cite_ref-6" ><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Teton#cite_note-6">[6]</a></sup></p>

</blockquote>

[eric_arnold]

<blockquote>

<p>Could "Grand Tetons" be named for big breasted Indians in the mountains?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>that might be a bit of a stretch. my sense is that the region was originally named for the Sioux people and later, over time, took on a less culturally-specific meaning and perhaps passed into slang as the indigenous peoples diminished. it makes no sense to name a mountain range off of big breasted native Americans, IMO. The Tetons, so to speak, would have had to have been quite remarkable. </p>

[Dieter Schaefer]

<blockquote>

<p>but what are the odds that a French colloquialism would coincide with the name of an indigenous tribe which lived in that region</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Eric, since historians disagree on the origin of the name, I certainly don't presume to know any better. That in the 1800 the mountains were often referred to as the "Three Tetons" seems to me to favor the French colloquialism origin of the name though.</p>

<p>Lewis and Clark encountered the "Teton Sioux" near present day Pierre, South Dakota - not exactly close to the Tetons. And according to this source: <a href="https://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/wyoming-indian-tribes.htm">https://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/wyoming-indian-tribes.htm</a> Wyoming was the prime location for the Arapaho tribe while "Dakota Sioux" roamed the territory but did not have permanent settlements there.</p>

 

[Two23]

<blockquote>

<p>Lewis and Clark encountered the "Teton Sioux" near present day Pierre, South Dakota - not exactly close to the Tetons.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>I live a few hours from Pierre (we pronounce "Peer.") Many Sioux reservations here also. I've never heard any referred to as "Teton Sioux," and they don't use the term either. Most likely, the mountains were named first and then French trappers simply called the Indians there "Sioux of the Tetons." All of the Sioux I'm familiar with are/were plains dwellers. As for "big breasted Indians," I was being tongue in cheek. </p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

[Landrum Kelly]

<p>These are critical issues:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.wordreference.com/fren/TETON">http://www.wordreference.com/fren/TETON</a></p>

<p><a href="http://www.wordreference.com/fren/grand">http://www.wordreference.com/fren/grand</a></p>

<p>Distasteful though it may be contemplate, "Grand Tetons" absolutely, positively means "big tits." The early French trappers looked up and saw those big mountains and said, "They look like big tits!" End of story.</p>

<p>Andrew, my style is to rent a car and wander around on my own where the people aren't. I'm talking about your itinerary, not tits, although wandering around where there are no other people has a number of possible applications.</p>

<p>--Lannie</p>

[eric_arnold]

<blockquote>

<p>Most likely, the mountains were named first and then French trappers simply called the Indians there "Sioux of the Tetons."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>from what i understand, Teton is a Sioux tribe which is part of the Lakota nation. The name Teton itself is a contraction of a Lakota word meaning plains inhabitants. Therefore, its highly unlikely the tribe were named after the mountains. Also if Lewis & Clark encountered the Teton elsewhere on the plains, it stands to reason the tribal name precedes the French colloquialism.<br>

from wikipedia: </p>

<blockquote>

<p> <br>

The <strong>Lakȟóta people</strong> (pronounced <a title="Help:IPA" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA">[laˈkˣota]</a>; also known as <strong>Teton</strong>, <strong>Thítȟuŋwaŋ</strong> ("prairie dwellers"),<sup id="cite_ref-p329_1-2" ><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakota_people#cite_note-p329-1">[1]</a></sup> and <strong>Teton Sioux</strong> are part of a confederation of seven related <a title="Sioux" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sioux">Sioux</a> tribes, the <a title="Oceti Sakowin" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceti_Sakowin">Očhéthi Šakówiŋ</a> or seven council fires, and as such one of the <a title="Indigenous peoples of the Great Plains" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Great_Plains">indigenous peoples of the Great Plains</a> of <a title="North America" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America">North America</a>. They speak the <a title="Lakota language" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakota_language">Lakota</a>, the westernmost of the three <a title="Siouan language" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siouan_language">Siouan language</a> groups, occupying lands in both <a title="North Dakota" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Dakota">North</a> and <a title="South Dakota" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Dakota">South Dakota</a>.</p>

</blockquote>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>Although my comments on this thread mostly consist of my thanking people, thank you again, all.</p>

<p>Dieter: Thanks for the additional distance information. I shall plan accordingly (or at least, my idea of accordingly, which I think we can agree meets most people's idea of madness...)</p>

<p>Kent: Thank you - I'll not over-extend the Tetons, in that case; I'll definitely do a late Old Faithful, and prioritise the kid-unfriendly times of day.</p>

<p>As for Etymology, I've never seen the Paps of Jura (much nearer to me) either - but should probably go there at some point with some whisky drinkers. I'll look forward to seeing the Tetons anyway, but might not broach Lannie's suggestion with my wife if I know what's good for me. As opportunities for confused naming goes, at least it's not Yucatan...</p>

<p>Thanks again, all. I'll report back on my failure to book anything and subsequent panic soon. :-)</p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>Just for the sake of anyone following, I have achieved accommodation everywhere (Yellowstone is the Lake Hotel, which is all that was available - photo tours seem to go from there, but I'll certainly make sure we dine at Old Faithful). So good news, no panic updates to the schedule. Now I just need to book some tours, sort out flights, and try not to look too closely at my credit card. Oh yes, and get a 200-500...</p>

[Two23]

<p>Hey, this thread may hit 100 posts yet! The Lake Hotel is off in an odd corner, but it will still save you fighting the morning crowds at the park entrance. It's very big! The restaurant there is also nice, and the lobby is fun to hang out in. It was built around 1900 but then the facade was redesigned a few years later by the same guy who designed the Old Faithful Inn. You might read up a little on Yellowstone Lake. It's very deep, and there are volcanic vents on the bottom, just like on the bottom of the ocean.</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>Cool, thanks Kent! That reassures me a bit - I'd not had much chance to check out the hotel area (other than realising it's a long way from OF). The lake sounds more interesting than I thought - I'll mention the details to my wife, who's into scuba, just in case that's an option...</p>

[Dieter Schaefer]

<blockquote>

<p>I have achieved accommodation everywhere</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Congratulations - that's indeed quite an achievement. </p>

<p>Lake Yellowstone Hotel is a nice enough place to stay at. Hayden Valley, a prime buffalo location, is located between it and the Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone (which is only some 16 miles to the North of the Hotel's location). The Lamar Valley, another prime wildlife location, is about 50 miles away in the Northeast Corner of the Park. The Old Faithful area is about an hour's drive worth to the West, with West Thumb, a good location to shoot at in the morning and the evening, about half way in between.</p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>Thank you, Dieter. It was worrying me! And cheers - I'll likely spend at least on day on a guided photography tour and then work out what else to visit, but I'm prepared for the distances inside the park now.</p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>One more thing, should anyone still be following... I've ignored almost everything to do with DX cameras for the last few years, since my Nikon DSLRs have always been FX. However, I need a back-up body for this trip (in part because some tours won't let my wife come unless we both have a camera...). Most lenses we can share, but if my 14-24 is on my D810, I don't have anything that's vaguely wide when put on a DX body. I don't really feel the need for a 16-35, so I'm probably looking at hiring a DX lens alongside the (probably D7200) body.<br />

<br />

My initial thoughts were with the 16-85, but it doesn't seem to review all that well. Nor does the 18-105; the 18-140 looks a bit stronger. Of course, there's always Sigma 18-35, given my likely aquisition of a Tamron 24-70, but my big concern is Antelope Canyon - having neither body able to go longer than 50mm equivalent seems a little restrictive somewhere where lens changing is going to be risky.<br />

<br />

Any suggestions?</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>Suggestions? Easy, order D500 + 16-80mm kit lens from your favorite camera store in New York. Have them ship it to my address ahead of time. I promise to test them thoroughly beforehand. :-) I can meet up with you at the Computer History Museum to hand deliver it to you. When you get back to London, sell the D500 for a profit. :-)</p>

<p>I would imagine that you'll get better deals on the D500 a couple of months from now. The down side is that in case you decide to keep the D500 ....</p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>Unless wildlife in Yosemite moves faster than I expect (or my wife decides to try to shoot the cheetah at San Diego Wildlife Park - I'll certainly be trying, having failed a bit last time due to having only a 90mm macro with me), I suspect a D500 may not offer me much over the D7200, other than weight and some card compatibility issues. Sadly my "spare" yearly bonus (ignoring all the lenses still sitting on my credit card) has mostly gone on the accommodation. But it's tempting, if only as a way to evaluate the merits of the autofocus system before the D810 replacement appears! If I don't hire a D7200, the advantage is that buying one (or a D7100) used could be done without losing much on depreciation; probably a bit harder with the D500... I'm happy to meet up at the Computer History Museum, though - I always feel members of this forum should see each other face to face, to put us off shouting at each other. :-)<br />

<br />

Was that a vote in favour of the 16-80, or a "don't know until you try it"?</p>