Nikkormat FTN w/ Light Meter Issue

[jake_smith8]

<p>As the subject says, I have a Nikkormat FTN with a light meter issue.</p>

<p>First, let me say that the meter type is the kind with a needle that swings back and forth between a plus and minus symbol to indicate whether a shot will be over, under, or properly exposed based on the light entering the lens, the film speed, the shutter speed, and the size of the aperture.</p>

<p>I am in a class where we recently had to do a project based on exposure equivalence. When doing this I would notice that there seem to be some settings where the needle incorrectly reads over exposed. Based on exposure equivalence, I know that these readings are incorrect.</p>

<p>I was hoping that someone might have a solution. If not, it would at least be nice to know why the camera is doing this.</p>

<p>Thanks in advance for any help with this.</p>

[rodeo_joe1]

<p>The camera is at least 40 years old, and things wear out, Does that answer the question?</p>

<p>And do you really need to take pictures to prove than E=I*t?<br>

Well actually it doesn't with film, since there's only a narrow band where reciprocity holds true. But that''s probably another class.</p>

[jake_smith8]

<p>Joe, I would agree with you, except most of the time the light meter works fine, so it does not seem to me that the thing is worn out. I do realize that the camera is old, but aside from this issue with the light meter, I have yet to notice any problems with the camera.</p>

<p>Also, the project was not about a formula. It was in an introductory photo class and the project was to show us that we could achieve the same level of exposure with different aperture and shutter speed settings, as well as to allow us to observe how changing the aperture and shutter speed affect the image.</p>

[craig_shearman1]

<p>Are the problems when you are at the extreme range of exposure combinations -- wide open aperture with long shutter speeds or small apertures with high shutter speeds? The film speed setting can also be a factor in this. It's been a long time since I used a Nikkormat, but some cameras have limits to their metering ranges. If the meter seems to be working in the normal range of exposures but only acting up at extreme ranges, that might be what is going on. And as Rodeo says the camera is getting up there in age.</p>

[User_6502147]

<p>Although Joe is correct, you can start with the basics: clean the battery connections, get a fresh battery/ies. Also, test it against handheld meter or reliable camera.</p>

<p>Sometimes background light influences the shot. I had to test my camera against 18% card and also finely tuned using a densitometer. Anyway, the needle on my photomic (Nikon F and F2A) over a (-) minus setting became the so called standard, but I still had to make final determination, how I want the scene to look....considering the type of film, etc etc. For instance, if the lighting was similar and I was to photograph someone (white), I'd extend my hand and measure the light....and I don't recall ever being fooled by the camera.</p>

<p>As a final possibility, you could have an elect short....that further contributes to errors (?).</p>

<p>Les</p>

<p> </p>

[Matthew Currie]

<p>I know the F Photomic meters of that era used a big rotary resistor that's noted for wearing out or getting dirty in certain spots, resulting in erratic readings. It would not surprise me if the Nikkormat meter is similar. Not much to be done about it if the resistor has begun wearing out.</p>

[jake_smith8]

<p>Craig, I don't remember specifically what settings I was using (in the future, I'll have to make a note of the settings when it happens), but I seem to recall noticing the issue when I was using settings that were in the middle of the camera's range, maybe f5.6 at 1/60 of a second. Part of the problem is that, without making note of the settings where this is happening, the problem does not seem to follow any sort of pattern. I definitely plan to start keeping track of the settings when the problem shows up to see if a pattern starts to emerge. Also, I should mention that because of the requirements for the class I am in, we are only using one type of film. As such, we were told that we should not mess with changing the film speed.</p>

<p>Les, I did replace the battery about a month ago, when I started using the camera. Unfortunately, I don't have a handheld meter or another SLR to test the camera against. I should note that I am an extremely novice photographer when it comes to anything outside of taking pictures with my phone. I have only been at this for about a month to a month and a half (basically, since my semester started in mid January). This being said, I have pretty much no idea what you said after the bit about the handheld meter. It all went over my head. I should also mention that I am not actually majoring in photography. Rather, my major is marine biology, but I thought it might be interesting to learn something about photography.</p>

[jake_smith8]

<p>Les, also I am pretty sure that the instruction manual for the camera said that the light meter reading is based off the light that is entering the lens. Wouldn't that mean that background light would not be the issue, as background lighting would be part of the light entering the lens?</p>

[owen_omeara]

<p>I agree with Rodeo Joe. Mine is 50 years old and the meter died. I was able to find a camera store with an old FTN meter and it got fixed. Try the older camera stores especially the ones that service cameras for the press. Good luck. They have not manufactured that meter for at least 30 years.</p>

[bob_flood1]

<p>What battery are you using?</p>

<p>When Nikon was making Nikkormat FTNs, the meter was designed to use a flat, mercury-based battery that has since been outlawed in most (but not all) countries. It was the nature of mercury batteries to provide a constant voltage throughout the useful life of the battery - the current (milli-amps) decreased as the battery drained.</p>

<p>You can buy an alkaline battery that may be marketed as equivalent, but it will not work satisfactorily. Alkaline batteries provide a constant current with voltage declining as the battery is drained. Since the Nikon meters were designed to operate on a constant voltage, the meter will not maintain accuracy as the battery drains.</p>

<p>There is a solution, if you haven't found it already. Air-activated batteries made for hearing aids provide a constant voltage, and can be had with a nominal voltage that is suitable for the meter. The down side to these batteries is life expectancy - whether in use or sitting idle, once the protective cover is removed so the battery can be used, it will go flat in a month's time. The good news is that they are cheap (last I looked, under $10 for a pack of 5 or 6) and can be found in pretty much every pharmacy in the country. If the battery is sufficiently smaller than the battery compartment that keeping it positioned correctly is a problem, you can get small O-rings at a hardware store that can fit around the battery to keep it from moving inside the compartment.</p>

[User_6502147]

<p>My major was not marine bio, but photography did help me in several projects (including marine bio). Your camera does "reflective metering"....and then there is the "incident light metering" where the light falls on the subject and is measured with a photo-sphere meter.....depending on the subject, the latter is usually more precise. Much of this depends on the expertise of the photographer.</p>

<p>If the camera offers "spot metering", you can read several points within the image....and determine the exposure that suits you best. However, "average metering", which is another setting within the camera....is exactly that, average....and often reflection from behind/aside the subject or white cap (bright area) on the mountain can effect the scene.... and fool the camera meter that you are trying to read. As an example, buddy of mine came back with 95% of underexposed shots of mountains (white caps only)...from his glorious NW motorcycle trip.</p>

<p>The net is full of info, but you can also read up on it from books on this subject. You can easily get an 18% grey reference card from Amazon for $10 or less. Densitometer is more expensive, and unless you have access to one....well, no point looking into that direction unless you decide to become more advanced shooter.</p>

<p>Anyway, it would be useful if you have the camera on the tripod and you have a consistent light to perform these tests.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

<p>Les</p>

 

[bebu_lamar]

<p>I believe it's the non linearity of the 2 resistors. The one in the aperture coupling and the one in the shutter speed ring. I think the ISO and shutter speed share the same resistor. And I believe the camera may have this problem since new. As long as the light doesn't change and you keep the camera pointing at the same thing back light etc... doesn't matter. The photocell would receive the same amount of light and its resistance would be the same as you change the shutter speed or aperture. It's not about whether the meter is accurate but about the equivalency of the shutter speed and aperture.</p>

[User_1172872]

<blockquote>

<p>I know the F Photomic meters of that era used a big rotary resistor that's noted for wearing out or getting dirty in certain spots, resulting in erratic readings. It would not surprise me if the Nikkormat meter is similar. </p>

</blockquote>

<p>Having owned a pair of Nikkormats bought long after they were discontinued I can tell you that is certainly correct. When the problem first appears, it can be intermittent. </p>

[mervyn_wilmington]

<p>Beg, steal or borrow at least one handheld meter that is known to be reliable - <em>and learn how to use it.</em> You need to know what a reading should be. That is the starting point.</p>

[mag_miksch]

<blockquote>

<p><em>When Nikon was making Nikkormat FTNs, the meter was designed to use a flat, mercury-based battery that has since been outlawed in most (but not all) countries. It was the nature of mercury batteries to provide a constant voltage throughout the useful life of the battery - the current (milli-amps) decreased as the battery drained.</em><br>

<em> </em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>I had similar issues with an old Pentax spotmeter, at least give this Air-activated batteries a try.</p>

[Albins images]

<p>As the owner of several Nikkormats, from FTN to FT3 (the latter using the more modern non-mercury batteries, if I recall correctly, and having a better communication with AI-lenses), I'd say... Don't bother getting the meter working correctly!<br />They always (as in: >30years later) were a bit 'fickle' and unreliable anyway.<br /><br />Above suggestion of a separate, hand-held meter seems the advice I'd like to echo, when you insist on using the (beautiful!) Nikkormat.<br />Otherwise: find a cheap FM2, FE2, or F3 (!!) in good condition and use that.</p>

[Matthew Currie]

<p>I had pretty good luck recalibrating the FTn finders of F's for modern batteries, but do not know whether it is as easy on a Nikkormat. I thought it worth doing (with a substantial dose of recreational orneriness) a few years ago when one could still easily get silver oxide batteries in the correct size. Now they've become hard to find, and one must either use alkalines (still OK but need monitoring more carefully) or metal adapter rings on smaller. I have three FTn meters that all once agreed with each other and with a couple of other modern meters within about a third of a stop range, but one has recently become jittery with what I suspect is the dreaded resistor death.</p>

<p>However, I was warned early on by a trusted repairman that from the start the meter was probably considered good enough if it was within a stop of correct. Remember that the center weighted averaging pattern still would require frequent correction for the best results, and that the camera and lens themselves were generally adjusted a full stop at a time, and that the CDs cells' readings could change depending on how long you leave them on and on what colors prevail.... and the kind of precision we've come to demand in the age of matrix metered digicams is not going to be there even if you found a brand new one in the box. </p>

<p>If you're going to use your meter as more than a starting point for manipulation, I'd skip to a more modern system using currently available batteries and a more modern photocell. </p>

<p> </p>

[robert_bowring]

<p>These cameras are great but they are getting old. If the meter is erratic and jumpy it is most likely a dirty or damaged resistor ring. If you are somewhat mechanically inclined and have the proper tools it is not that hard to take apart and clean the resistor. If it is a battery issue I would advise staying away from the alkaline batteries or the Wein cells. They seem to have a very short life and really don't work very well. These cameras were designed to use 1.35 volt mercury batteries that are no longer available. The advantage to mercury batteries is that they lasted a long time and the voltage remained constant until they died. The best solution that I have found is the MR-9 battery adapter from criscam.com. It allows the use of the common 1.5 volt #386 silver oxide battery. The adapter has some sort of resistor circuit that will decrease the 1.5 volts of the silver battery to close to 1.35 volts. I have used them in my Nikon Ftn and my Nikkormat FT and Ftn. If these solutions do not appeal to you I would also recommend getting a hand held meter. You can find some really good meters for very little money.</p>

[robert_bowring]

<p>I forgot to ask you a question that may not be obvious to you if you are not that familiar with this camera. Is the lens mounted properly? Remove the lens and rotate the aperture ring so that it is set at 5.6. Mount the lens and then rotate the aperture ring to its smallest aperture and then to its largest aperture. You have to do this with the earlier Nikons and Nikkormats in order index the lens with the camera meter. It has been called the "Nikon shuffle". You have to do this every time you change lenses or the meter will not work properly. Us old Nikon users do this automatically without even thinking about it. Whenever you change a lens make sure it is set at 5.6 and after mounting it rotate the aperture ring from the largest aperture to the smallest aperture. It will become second nature to you after you do it a few times. Good luck!</p>

[glen_h]

<p>I have used alkaline batteries in many cameras designed for Hg cells. So far, the meter has been close enough for black and white photography. </p>

<p>For cameras like the FM, there is a rotary resistor below the shutter speed/ASA knob. If you go far enough to the low-light side, by setting a high ASA, and low shutter speed, the resistor will wrap around to the low ASA high shutter speed side, and report underexposed. (It is the effect of using a circular resistor.)</p>

<p>I suppose it can also happen the other way, but I never tried it. </p>

<p>If the effect happens for some shutter speed/ASA/aperture combinations, but is fine for nearby ones on either side, it is likely a dirty resistor. Sometimes they will clean up through use, rotating the shutter speed or aperture index knob some number of times. </p>

<p>Otherwise, as noted, a hand held separate light meter is an old favorite (from the days before built in meters). Also, used FTN are really cheap. Better to find an FT3, though that is a little harder. Similar age Canon cameras work well, too.</p>

[fournier_marc]

The ring resistor in the FTN is a carbon layer and will wear out over time and use. Max and min are usually fine. Anything in the middle got worn away with each indexing of the aperture ring. If the camera saw much use, it is probably worn beyond service.

 

As others said, the original batteries for the FTN are unavailable. Replacement battery will not have the proper voltage and usually require compensation or re-calibration.

 

You also have to do the " Nikon Shuffle " with the lens. This is the indexing part.

 

Marc