Mamiya 645E , Bronica ETRsi , Pentax 645 / 67ii

[sanjay_chaudary]

<p>Hi,<br>

I heard of Bronica ETRsi. Is this a good system ?<br>

<br />I have also been offered Mamiya 645E . Is this a good camera?</p>

<p>I am yet to decide between the 645 and 6*7 format. I would like something handholdable.</p>

<p>I might focus on shooting</p>

<ul>

<li> architecture, temples, landscapes with medium format and also macro.</li>

</ul>

<p>On nature, wildlife and birds, I might continue using my existing 35mm (canon eos film) system as medium format may not be that convenient.<br>

It might be useful where the subjects ( painted storks - approx 3-4 ft in ht) are in close proximity like 4-10 feet away.<br>

I would prefer a SLR with wide option of lenses and would like to project slides. <br>

One of my acquaintances has a Mamiya rb67 pro-s and I plan to look at it to see how heavy it is.<br>

I also plan to check the Mamiya 645E to get an idea of feel and weight.<br>

<br />I shoot vertical photos too. Is it difficult to shoot vertical with pentax 67 or pentax 67ii? The Mamiya rb67 and rz67 have revolving backs, but I need to evaluate the weight issue.<br>

<br />Is the shutter noise a concern for mamiya 645e or pentax 67/ 67ii or mamiya rb67 pro-s? I was wondering if this might scare the birds off.<br>

<br />thanks all .</p>

[ondebanks]

<blockquote>

<p>Is the shutter noise a concern for mamiya 645e or pentax 67/ 67ii or mamiya rb67 pro-s? I was wondering if this might scare the birds off.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Every medium format SLR makes a significant noise when you take a photo. It's important to realise that the shutter exposing the film is not the biggest contributor to the noise - the movements of the mirror (and auxiliary shutter in the case of a leaf shutter system) just before and after the shot are what dominates. So even though leaf shutter lenses have a justifiable reputation for quietness, if the camera they are attached to is an SLR type, there will be noise. </p>

<p>From using or trialling a few medium format cameras down the years, it seems to me that in general, the smaller the format, the quieter the operation.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I heard of Bronica ETRsi. Is this a good system ?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>It's a fine system, the best/end of the Bronica 645 SLR line, and the only choice for someone wanting a 645 SLR to have leaf-shutter lenses in all its focal lengths. But it's not the best choice since you want a "wide option of lenses". Mamiya has the biggest range of lenses, Pentax second.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I have also been offered Mamiya 645E . Is this a good camera?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Very good, but not the best of its breed. The Mamiya 645 Pro or ProTL is a more modular and featured manual body, while the Mamiya 645AF adds far more automation and integrated ergonomics.</p>

 

[Rick Helmke]

<p>I'd keep the 35mm, it has so many uses it's good gear to have. I've owned the 645E, it works well but you don't have the setup options the rest of the line gives you. Still, for a grab and go camera it's very good. With some of the long glass, which should be affordable, it would do well on wildlife. I think there is a 500mm available for it. I love my RB67 and handhold it most of the time but I would not use it on wildlife. I love it for portraits and for landscape work though. As for the Bronica system I've always liked it and the glass is superb but for some reason I've never owned one. I've seen them used a lot for weddings and even newspapers once in a while. They seem to be durable.<br /><br />Rick H.</p>

[craig_shearman1]

<p>Both the Mamiya 645 and Bronica ETR systems were excellent. The primary difference was that the Mamiya had a focal plane shutter while the Bronica was strictly leaf shutter. A leaf shutter was very important to the wedding and portrait photographers who were the primary users of these cameras because it allowed a higher shutter speed when doing flash fill outside. So important that Mamiya made two or three lenses with leaf shutters specifically for that purpose. If you're not doing flash-fill work, then that's probably not an issue for you. The Pentax 645 was an also-ran, nothing wrong with it that I know of but never as popular as the Mamiya or Bronica. To use any of them veritcally you should have a prism finder since using a waist level finder vertically is very awkward.<br /><br />The Pentax 67 series is basically a giant 35mm camera. Goes from horizontal to vertical same as a 35mm SLR.<br /><br />Mamiya RB/RZ 6x7 cameras were so big and heavy many photographers considered them studio cameras and would use a 6x6 or 645 camera for location work even if they had 6x7 in the studio. Might be OK for landscapes on a tripod but never heard of anyone using them for nature/wildlife/birds. <br /><br />As John Shaw said in his Business of Nature Photography book, nature photography was a 35mm business. Medium format was much less versatile, had fewer lenses to choose from especially fewer long lenses (500mm in medium format is more like 300 in 35), cost more to shoot because of higher film costs, and you didn't get paid any more for a medium format shot than 35mm. <br /><br /></p>

[alexo]

<p>The RB is a studio camera. You could use it in the field, but think of it as small view camera in terms of the way you would need to shoot with it. It's heavy and virtually impossible to hand hold. You'd need a tripod.<br>

Pentax 6x7 is a nice camera, but if I'm not mistaken, its flash synch is 1/30 of a second. It doesn't have interchangeable backs and its mirror slaps pretty hard.<br>

Of the 645 cameras you mention, the Bronica is the most modular. It's the only one of the 645 cameras you mention that has interchangeable backs, which means you can switch film midstream, without having to finish the roll. So, if you're shooting color and then decide you want to take a shot in black and white, you pop the back off, put on a back loaded with b&w film, take whatever shot you want and then put the color back on the camera and continue where you left off without losing any frames. Neither Mamiya 645E, nor Pentax allow you to do that. However, it doesn't have an instant return mirror, so the viewfinder goes dark after you take a shot until you wind to the next frame.<br>

Bronicas are also pretty well made. They are more rugged than Mamiya 645E. In fact, I think that of the cameras you mention, the 645E is the weakest. Mamiya does have the widest selection of lenses though and you can use it with third party accessories such as pentacon bellows or lenses with appropriate adapters, something you can't do with a Bronica.<br /><br /><br>

All of the 645 cameras you mention have significant mirror slap. If you want something quieter, your choice would have to be a rangefinder camera.<br>

<br />If I were in your shoes, I would probably go with either a Mamiya or a Pentax system because of the ability to use other lenses and accessories with adapters, which are much cheaper. However, I wouldn't go with Mamiya 645E. I would most likely get AFD I, II or III, which is the most versatile, as it allows you to use newer AF lenses and older MF lenses with stopped down metering and manual aperture control. Barring that, I would go with Mamiya 645TL, which is modular like the Bronica and it's pretty well made.<br /><br />Good luck. Let us know how you make out.</p>

[Dustin McAmera]

<p>The Mamiya 645E has a fixed prism finder, where the 645 Super, Pro and Pro TL have interchangeable finders. This means you can't use a waist-level finder with the E; I would miss that (I have a 645 Pro). On the other hand, I can only think of a couple of times I've changed film backs part-way through.<br>

Also, these parts being fixed, you will never get problems due to dirty contacts of the film back or finder, which are sometimes reported here. Importantly, all Mamiya's manual-focus 645 cameras can use the same range of lenses and macro accessories.<br>

Lenses for the AF cameras will cost a lot more.<br>

You mentioned slides: do you already have a medium-format projector?</p>

 

[sanjay_chaudary]

<p>I am yet to get mf projector. I have a 35mm projector and am blown away by the quality.<br>

<br />I will need to decide between 645 format and 6*7 format. If its 6*7, I might look at pentax 67ii .<br>

For 645, it will be either Mamiya or Pentax.<br>

1) Has anyone used pentax 67ii here ? It seems more common on ebay than keh. I feel more comfortable with KEH than e-bay.<br>

I got my hands on RZ67 , which belongs to my friend. His camera did not have a camera body strap. The waist level viewfinder was amazing : the size and brightness is astounding. It felt bit heavy after handholding for 30 seconds. </p>

 

[david_tellet]

<p>I have a Pentax 645N and a recently purchased ETRSi (with grip). Though I like the modularity of the Bronica, I much prefer the ergonomics of the Pentax and some of the modern features like focus confirmation, auto bracketing, and really good communication with the Pentax flash unit (I forget the model number). I really wanted to like the Bronica, but I will likely sell that and keep the Pentax.</p>

[lubos_soltes]

<p>From the options offered: ETRSi, Pentax 645 N or N II, then the Mamiya. At least that would be my order. I had an ETRSi and it's a wonderful small/light camera with excelent lenses. The Pentax and Mamiya I never had, but the Pentax has also good lenses and handles like a 35mm camera by all the reports. The M645E has the best lens selection but is the oldest of the bunch I think.<br>

I have the RZ67 Pro II at the moment and use it as my main camera (complimented by a Samsung NX1000 for snaps). While it is heavy and bulky, I take it almost anywhere I can get enough light to use iso 400 film. It's the best camera I have owned so far with excellent handling and image quality.</p>

[mwmcbroom]

<p>I've owned a variety of medium format gear over the years. They all have their strong and weak points. Currently I own a Bronica ETRSi with a small collection of lenses, backs, and prism finders, plus I have the SCA module and Metz 45 CT-4 flash so I have TTL flash at all shutter speeds. I researched 645 systems at some length before deciding on the Bronica ETRSi. It is the only system with all leaf shutter lenses and interchangeable backs. Having interchangeable finders is also a big plus, and it has a very good selection of lenses -- maybe not as many as Mamiya, for example, but it has most all you'd need, really, from a 30mm fisheye to a 500mm telephoto.</p>

<p>I also own a Pentax 67 outfit. I bought into this system only a few months ago, although I've wanted one for years. The Pentax 67 is a huge camera, but it doesn't really weigh anymore than your average 35mm SLR with motor drive attached. The 6x7 lenses are not very heavy, which helps keep the weight down. I frequently use mine hand-held, both horizontally and vertically. I've really been enjoying this camera. So far I have the 45mm, 135mm macro, and 200mm lenses, plus a Pentax 2x (gray) teleconverter. I plan to add the 105/2.4 and 300mm f/4 lenses to the kit in the near future.</p>

<p>In the past, I owned a Bronica ECTL, a 70s-vintage 6x6 SLR with built-in meter and aperture priority auto exposure. It has a focal plane shutter, and I think there was at least one leaf-shutter lens available for it. This camera, which closely resembles the Rollei SL66, was a joy to use and took wonderful photos. It was the only 6x6 SLR I've owned, and one of the things I did like about the square format was I didn't have to rotate the camera. The ECTL is seldom seen these days, but they were built to last and I suspect that ones that have been well cared for are still very capable cameras. </p>

<p>Now, I'd also like to mention a few non-SLRs for one big reason, primarily -- they are ultra quiet. I've owned Rollei and Yashica TLRs that took fantastic pix and were super quiet. Even the film advance was hushed. Currently I own a Yashica Mat 124 (not the G), and I love the photos I get from it. They are sharp as a tack. I also own a couple of folders -- a Zeiss Ikonta and a Agfa Isolette. Both of these cameras also take superb pix and are whisper quiet. One of the best medium format cameras I've ever used was a Zeiss Super Ikonta B (6x6) with the coated Opton Tessar and Synchro-Compur shutter. I called it my "Pocket Hasselblad" because that was basically its performance level.</p>

[ondebanks]

<blockquote>

<p>I researched 645 systems at some length before deciding on the Bronica ETRSi. It is the only system with all leaf shutter lenses and interchangeable backs.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>The only <em>traditional</em> system. If you have deeper pockets, the more automated Hasselblad H series meets the same requirements, and several models (H1, H2, H4X) take both film and digital backs.</p>

<p>The Mamiya/PhaseOne 645DF line is also heading in the direction of all leaf-shutter Schneider lenses, while still supporting all the focal plane shutter ones. It doesn't take film backs, however; the 645AFD III was the last model to take both film and digital backs...but it cannot actuate the leaf-shutter lenses.</p>