Crop sensor shooting practice for buying lenses for full frame

aaron_mccormick · March 21, 2015

I plan on getting a full frame camera, which would be an upgrade (for me) from what is a Nikon D7100.

Progressing to a D810, the ratio of frame cropping between these two cameras is something like 1.5x less with the D7100 considering focal range.

With that in mind, my question is pretty simple. If I want to get an idea (with my D7100 lenses) of what the view using certain (fixed focal length) D810 primes will be, how should I go about doing that? I know it's really just simple math, but still. I read a tip online where someone gave the proper focal range for a zoom lens on an APS-C crop sensor (Nikon) for comparing with a full frame, and that was perfect. I was able to use this advice and see what my field of view would be on a full frame with my kit lens zoomed to a certain focal length.

In conclusion, I would like to use one or more of the following lenses that I have now, for my D7100

10-24mm zoom

18-140mm zoom

75-300mm zoom

to see how the view would be using the following prime lenses (one is zoom) on a D810:

14-24mm zoom

35mm prime

50mm prime

85mm prime

However, I am pretty certain I will only buy the 14-24mm zoom, and 50mm prime. I can't afford anything else.

Peter_in_PA · March 21, 2015

"I can't afford anything else."

Wait to go to FX until you can afford the lenses that will make you happy. Depending on how you use your photos, FX may make no difference anyway.

JDMvW · March 21, 2015

1.5X -

it's even simpler than on Canons where it is 1.6X for the transition from APS-C to 35mm-sized sensor.

But, IMHO you're over-intellectualizing it, especially in regard to zooms

here are what they are, pretty much as close as you need to get:

<tbody>

<tr>

</tr>

<tr>

</tr>

<tr>

<td width="132">ultrawide</td>

</tr>

<tr>

<td width="129">ultrawide</td>

<td width="191">normal</td>

</tr>

<tr>

<td width="132">normal</td>

<td width="191">short tele</td>

</tr>

<tr>

<td width="129">normal</td>

<td width="132">short tele</td>

</tr>

<tr>

<td width="129">short tele</td>

<td width="191">medium tele</td>

</tr>

<tr>

<td width="132">medium tele</td>

</tr>

<tr>

<td width="129">medium tele</td>

</tr>

<tr>

</tr>

</tbody>

</table>

aaron_mccormick · March 21, 2015

Perhaps you are correct, Peter, and I see you are quoting me about money. But I think you are reading too much into my post. At no point did I ever say I wanted to afford any more than one wide angle zoom and a prime portrait lens. My goal is to compare full frame versus cropped sensor, so I can visually confirm the focal ranges and field of view through the lens while I am shooting. I've had cropped sensors for several years, so I am aware of what types of lenses I DON'T have interest in, but my uncertainties are more about getting as close a comparison as possible between similar lenses across a range of cropped sensor and full frame.

aaron_mccormick · March 21, 2015

@ <a href="/photodb/user?user_id=1841065">JDM von Weinberg</a>

I do know about the different words that can be used to describe lenses (ultra wide, wide, etc.)But what do you think?

Maybe if I use my kit lens on my D7100 (which is 18-140mm) I can set the focal range to 50mm, and will this be what full frame looks like at roughly 35mm? See, I'm asking about testing these things out in the field. But nothing more, really.

SCL · March 21, 2015

I agree about over intellectualizing things. You will shoot with the lenses you have on hand, and where appropriate, zoom with your feet. Look at some shots taken with your current lenses pretending they are full frame, then crop them to get a sense of what the differences would look like. That should give you a good idea of what to look at in building your kit.

JDMvW · March 21, 2015

For all practical purposes, a 10mm focal length on a DX Nikon body will present the same, almost completely identical view as a 15mm focal length on an FX Nikon body. Differences between those two views will be trivial and only because the "factors" may not be precise.

A 100mm on a DX will be the same view as a 150mm lens on the FX, and so on, and on.

In the example you give, if you set your lens at 50mm on your DX, then it will not only "roughly look like", but will be nearly identical to what you would get from a 33.333333mm lens setting on a lens on a FX body, so, yes, "roughly" like 35mm.

aaron_mccormick · March 21, 2015

Yes, I know all about zooming with my feet. I was hoping there was a simple ratio chart that might help me just do a quick comparison of various focal lengths for the Nikon crop lenses versus full frame primes. (in terms of numbers) If people want to call this over-intellectualized, then there is nothing I can do about it. (It's clear I worded things wrong) I'll just Google it, instead. Sorry for wasting everyone's time.

JDMvW · March 21, 2015

aaron,

There's no need to go away mad. You may not appreciate the comments, but I thought we had answered your questions. If not, I really and truly don't know what it is that you did want and expect.

aaron_mccormick · March 21, 2015

@ JDM Understood, dude. Never said I didn't appreciate the comments, by the way. I was just looking for something more in line with a visual/ comparative (and all inclusive) ratio chart for all the typical crop sensor lenses one might consider for comparison when moving up to full frame primes. I'll just Google it. It's not that complicated. And I'll sleep well, thank you. lol

Two23 · March 21, 2015

JDM has the same philosophy I do. Maybe that's because we both have used many different formats, from DX to 4x5. The numbers really just don't matter. They just don't. What matters is what the lens DOES. For my D800E and Chamonix 045n 4x5, I have a wide lens, a "normal" lens, and a portrait lens. For the Nikon 24mm PC-E is the wide, 50mm Sigma is the "normal," and 85mm f1.8G is the portrait. On the Chamonix a Nikon 90mm f4.5 is the wide, Rodenstock APO 150mm f5.6 is the "normal," and Heliar f4.5 240mm is the portrait. The "mm" numbers really don't mean squat, and I don't think of the lenses that way. I think of them as "wide," "normal", and "long". And finally, I find that I shoot different cameras in different ways. Even though they are very, very similar, I shoot the D800E differently than I did the D7100, i.e. the angle of view I liked on the D7100 is different than what I like on the D800E. FWIW, if you're expecting your photos to look noticeably better with a D810 than a D7100, you will be disappointed unless you are making big enlargements. The thing that really made a difference for me was the Nikon 24mm PC-E, not the camera.

I'll add that for D800E I bought the following lenses after nearly six months of research: Nikon 24mm PC-E (no-brainer for landscapes, architecture,) Sigma 35mm f1.4 ART, Sigma 50mm f1.4 ART, Nikon 85mm f1.8G, Nikon 105mm f2.8 VR Micro. These cost over $4,000, all bought used. Already had Nikon 70-200mm f2.8 VR, Nikon 80-400mm AFS. I might sell a couple of these off in coming months, but it will NOT be the 24mm PC-E (most useful lens of the bunch) or the Sigma ART lenses. Those are the sharpest lenses I've ever owned, and among the sharpest ever made. Another hint: if you are shooting landscapes and architecture, the D800E has same image quality as D810 at half the price. D810 gets you nothing for the money spent. (For weddings, yes.)

Kent in SD

Dieter Schaefer · March 21, 2015

With the lenses you have, you cannot fully visualize what a 14-24 will look like on FX - but you can get close: the 10mm setting of your 10-24 on your D7100 will show you the same field of view as the 15mm setting of the 14-24. Setting the 10-24 to 24mm will give you about the same FOV as the 35mm prime on FX. There are two big differences between your 10-24 and the 14-24; the latter cannot take filters (easily) and the range is a lot less (2.4x zoom vs 1.7x zoom) which can become an issue.

Switching to your 18-140 and setting it to around 35mm will show you what the FOV of a 50mm will be on FX. And lastly, setting that lens to about 55mm will show you the FOV of a 85mm on FX.

Math is indeed simple - just take the focal length of your DX lens and multiply by 1.5 - that will give you the focal length equivalent on FX (in terms of FOV).

Or the other way around - to see what focal length you need to select on your DX lens, multiply the FX focal length by 2/3 (or divide by 1.5). So to mimic the 14-24 FX FOV, you need a DX lens that ranges from 9-16 and so on for the other ones on your list.

jim_momary · March 21, 2015

Aaron ... one chart coming up.

It's just a memory jog.

Jim<div></div>

aaron_mccormick · March 21, 2015

Thanks all, Before my responses to other people's responses gets derailed or misconstrued in the thread, I think it's time for me to outline my expectations, and why I posted in the first place: 1) I expect lowest light performance possible in any given situation, since I always shoot in very dark spaces, which is why I chose to upgrade to primes and full frame. The low light qualities of my D7100 are nice, but leave much to be desired, for my taste.

2) Cost efficiency in buying multiple primes (as opposed to expensive zooms) is just a no-brainer.

3) Image quality, shooting with multiple primes, seems to defeat the purpose of shooting with zoom lenses, in my personal opinion. Again, a wide open aperture with superior low light performance is one of the most important things to me. In addition to that, I am increasingly interested in quality bokeh.

4) Ninety percent of my pictures are taken in very low light or tight spaces, or they are architectural exteriors taken at close to medium range. That is how I know I ought to settle for A) one expensive ultra-wide angle and then supplement it with B) a couple of cheaper primes to get some longer shots. Sure, I won't have the reach of the lenses I had on my D7100, but I don't think I will miss it much.

Also Kent, thanks for your input. I too, have not seen any reviews showing beyond a doubt, that the D810 blows the D800E out of water, so to speak, but you never know unless you own both cameras. But I have also seen reviews showing otherwise, so there simply is no telling. I can't say I 've ever heard of that Nikon 24mm PC-E, but it certainly looks interesting.

aaron_mccormick · March 21, 2015

LOL, nice one <a href="/photodb/user?user_id=2178860">Jim Momary</a>. Looks like my bitching paid off. I'll start researching that thing tomorrow when I have some extra time.

Remember, I'm a noob, guys!

aaron_mccormick · March 21, 2015

@ Dieter The excellent points you make! I am confident that the supply of info handed over to me has now answered my demand. This thread is now closed by the poster.

bebu_lamar · March 21, 2015

The 14-24mm lens on FX is like a 9-16mm lens on DX.

35mm FX = 23mm DX

50mm FX = 33mm DX

85mm FX= 55mm DX

Jochen_S · March 21, 2015

Jim, I fear you wrote the wrong table for Aaron. what you spilled out is for the film shooter buying a crop SLR. Same about JDM's early line: "In the example you give, if you set your lens at 50mm on your DX, then it will not only "roughly look like", but will be nearly identical to what you would get from a 33.333333mm lens setting on a lens on a FX body, so, yes, "roughly" like 35mm." Where D- & FX are confused.

Trying to be helpful: your wide zoom ends somewhere like a 35mm on FX. The next zoom covers 28 - 210 mm and the last should work fine on FX but needs a 120 to 450mm to be replaced and there might only be something roughly close to that.

If I read "one wide angle zoom and a prime portrait lens" right I would suggest something 18 -35mm(FX!) and a 85mm as a 2 lens kit. Its not as freaking wide as what you have now, but feels wide enough while it covers the same "long end of a wide zoom".

Look if 16mm is marked on your current wide that would equal 24mm as a still super wide long end.

Spot 24, 33 and 58 mm on your medium zoom to get an idea / feeling of the 3 primes you mentioned. and keep in mind that the 12-24mm zoom ends with a tiny gap before that lens starts, which would keep the 18-120 on your current camera the urnrivaled alround lens. - Not sure if that is what you want since I would use the more expensive camera if possible to shine as "the workhorse" too. It will do so with your long zoom from the 2nd half of your 18-120 to "a tad longer" (the 200mm to 300mm gap / step isn't that big).

I hope I didn't add too much confusion.

aaron_mccormick · March 21, 2015

@ BeBu Ok, so I lied. I have not finished saying I was done with this thread. Thanks for the conversion numbers, Bebu! And yes. That change will be beautiful.. it even adds one more degree of width angle in comparison to my current Nikkor 10-24mm lens on the D7100 But that conversion is mundane for me, at this point. What really interests me is the benefit I will receive from better mid range portrait style lenses with a nice bokeh effect and a shallow aperture. Fixed focal length is something I have never used in the past, but at least I can experiment using my D7100, by restricting myself at a fixed focal range, and this was the point of my original post, in part. But I get it now.

User_6502147 · March 22, 2015

Check out a lens simulator, particularly one where you change the distance and the aperture, tho different lenses tend to show somewhat different bokeh. I think you'll get lot more out of that, since it will give you a visual reference.

Les

User_6502147 · March 22, 2015

Oh, just looked this one up and you can choose FX or DX...for the same view.

http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/lens/simulator/

Les

JDMvW · March 22, 2015

Jochen is right. The earlier part of my comment was OK but then I apparently went off into some kind of amnesiac confusion. Drat.

thomas_k. · March 22, 2015

You can approximately preview FX lenses setting your DX lenses in following manner:

FX 14-24mm zoom – DX 10-16mm zoom

FX 35mm prime – DX 23mm

FX 50mm prime – DX 33mm

FX 85mm prime – DX 56mm

aaron_mccormick · March 22, 2015

Cool. thanks people. The intel posted has been fully absorbed. I have a long way to go to look into all this. But not so much for what lenses I need (I already know, for the most part)... but for comparing things like primes.... 35mm, 50, 85, and that's about it. I'll see what happens in my research.

ant_nio_gomes · March 22, 2015

Try this link applying the crop factor to your present lenses:

http://dofsimulator.net/en/

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