Beginner - Printing (Chemicals, Enlarger)

[john_boyd9]

<p>I'm a photography student and I want to start printing on my own as a hobby. I mostly shoot medium format. I first want to learn about printing so I will probably learn processing some other time. Now my question is what enlarger should i purchase? I'm looking for something cheap since this is my first enlarger and I'm also tight on budget. I heard some enlargers allow you to project the film on the wall. That would be a plus! <br>

Also what kind of chemicals would i need? What paper gives the best results? I have done this in school before but every time its all ready for me on the table. <br>

This video was the main reason for me to become interested in doing my own printing. Her prints just look amazing.<br>

 

Thanks in advance</p>

 

[Jochen_S]

<p>Enlarger: One sold rather locally by its previous user hopefully able to show some prints made on it to convince you of its quality. It should come preferably as an entire kit including at least a timer and multigrade filters or a colaro head easel & lens (all those bits get expoensive if you hunt them down seperately. - trays safe light and such would be appreciated too. What MF are you shooting? - Enlargers up to 6x6 seem easier to get than those for up to 6x9.<br>

Get a post WW2 model able to handle filters at least. - Something with dedicated vario contrast head would be nice but also likely to blow your budged.<br>

Projecting on the wall is a major pain in the behind. - how are you supposed to hold your paper in place? how to allign the enlarger to make sure its centerd properly above your paper?how to move it back & forth precisely? <br>

There were decent ones that came with rails to be laid on your floor vacuum easels etc but I suppose they were rare and might still cost a small fortune. + need lots of space and have to be heavy. - Any carry on your own into your compact car solution isn't worth bothering.<br>

Brands: Leitz, Durst, Kaiser, maybe PZO Krokus or Meopta<br>

to maybe better not get: Liesegang, Dunco. anything without condenser lens inside<br>

I never handled Beselers (supposed to be good) & small Omegas.<br>

Enlargers came like cameras in all qualities. There are a few with 2 element lenses and not even iris aperture. - They were OK for a kid in the 50s to do bearable 5x7" prints from 35mm. Others suffer from lightbulb alignment challenges. Some appear rather shaky others are hard to operate since they have maybe not even a mechanical way to crank the head up and down.<br>

The luxury class has springs or counterweights to make head operation more convenient or moves the table for the easel instead.<br>

IDK what you are planning to do. If you shoot the best contemporary Zeiss glass it makes little sense to cheap out in the darkroom and print with a fishy 3 element lens. OTOH if you stop these down your 8x10" prints shouldn't look too bad.<br>

I'd suggest starting with glossy Ilford Multigrade PE paper, Multigrade developer (1l bottle or smaller) and Hypam fixer (5l pack if you are sure you'll stick to the hobby).<br>

Fresh paper of the right grade properly exposed will hopefully look good enough. - I would not bother with fixed grades if I'm not prining an enormous lot. - i.e. do it for 3 monhts in manic fulltime + x. Its too unlikely to finish off a box of 100 sheets in the least needed grade otherwise.<br>

IMHO film processing can be learned and done right rather quickly. - Printing well though is a skill that some maybe never acquire... Take your time, do an incredible amount of test clips and judge results critically.</p>

[larrydressler]

<p> Dektol as a developer If you need supplies Let me know your area. I have friends with rooms of free enlargers.</p>

[tim_bradshaw1]

<p>While I think you are right that printing is the important thing to learn, as it's where the craft really is, I'd suggest that if you are going to make prints you also process your own film. I'm suggesting this because processing film is <em>almost trivial</em> compared to printing: you need a tank, some reels, some chemistry and somewhere dark to load the tank. The hard bit of all this is somewhere dark to load the tank, but if you are going to make prints you already <em>have</em> that: just turn the safelight off wherever you are making prints and load the tank on the enlarger baseboard.</p>

<p>There are subtleties to processing film of course, but it's really pretty easy to turn out very printable negs, and these will often be better than the negs you get by sending film off, and much cheaper.</p>

[craig_shearman1]

<p>Tim is correct -- once you have what you need for printing, developing requires only the tank and reel. There's no reason not to do it.<br /><br />As for enlargers, it depends somewhat on where you live. Durst and other brands I'm not familiar with are popular in Europe. In the U.S., the two most popular brands are Omega and Beseler. As I said on a post earlier this week, an Omega D series or Beseler 45 series will handle any negative up to 4x5 and there is a huge cottage industry of accessories and parts more so than any other enlarger ever sold in the U.S. Even if you'll never shoot 4x5, these are rock solid enlargers that will do anything you ever want to do in the darkroom but are available for next to nothing these days. Next-best are the Omega B or C and Beseler 23 series, the same thing but only up to medium format.<br /><br />Almost all enlargers can project on the wall (some by turning the head, others with am accessory mirror), but it's something you'll likely never have to do. Larger ones like the Omega and Beselers can do 16x20 maybe 20x24 on the baseboard. For larger sizes they can be mounted to the wall to go larger while still being horizontal.<br /><br />As for chemicals and paper -- Kodak Dektol, Indicator Stop Bath and Rapid Fix, Ilford paper. (Kodak doesn't make B&W paper anymore).</p>

[walter_degroot]

<p>All excellent responses.<br>

regarding horizontal enlarging. some in the 1939's made<br>

home horizontal enlargers.<br>

not an issue today.<br>

first: unless you have practice 120<br>

(nf)_ film) is harder to<br>

load on a film reel then 35mm.<br>

when developing film the developer is not that importasnt<br>

. COBDIDSTENCY IS</p>

<p>to rteduce problems use film developer<br>

aS A ONE SHOT. liquid developers are easier to<br>

use. as powdered developers require you<br>

to make a stock solution, and it goes bad over time.<br>

if there are no children or fools where you live.<br>

you can cober the developer tray with saran and get 3-4 days use of a<br>

tray of paper developer.<br>

when I worked in a lab. DFektol needed to be mixed first<br>

thing every monday. we made up a frash gallon.<br>

you do not need ditilled water unle4ss your dringing water has peroblems.<br>

we liev where we have a well- but city water works differently.<br>

you muswt observe and leqarn.<br>

the minimumfor an enlarger- even a cheap oen is condensers and a fairly decent lens.<br>

prices on german lenses seem high<br>

but el-nikkor lenses sell at reasonable prices here.<br>

minolta and fuji made good lenses.<br>

you do not need a top of the line german schnider lens - nice tho.<br>

a print never looks right in a traqy and under a safelight.<br>

do NOT overexpose and under develop your prints.<br>

a good negative- one not developed commercially.<br>

means an average or excellent print.<br>

a negative may look slightly thin yet yield excellent prints.<br>

a dense negative like the very old ones will print easier but will have a narror tonal range.<br>

OPLD- I mean from the 19509's where parts were very blackj.</p>

<p>most commercial labs years ago returned weak negs and gray-ish prints.<br>

not the ting to try for.<br>

even a cheapenlarger will require a filter drawer.<br>

I even printed color negs with only a filter drawer.</p>

<p> </p>

[john_boyd9]

<p>Thank you all for the great information. I will go over each reply during the weekend. Just wanted to add that I live in Toronto. I mostly shoot 6x6. Mamiya C330 is the camera i mostly shoot with. I recently also purchased a 503CW Hasselblad which I will be shooting with in the coming weeks. The reason i wanted to have a enlarger that projects on the wall, is because I'm trying to make something for school that requires me do something big with the use of enlarger. I would love to process my own film but I'm not sure how this is done. Is there a video tutorial that explains the steps? I don't shoot 35mm, i either shoot medium format or large format. What chemicals do i need for processing? How much does it cost? What equipment do i need and where can i purchase it from? Sorry i keep asking too many questions..<br>

I would also love to know which printing process gives the best quality prints. print gelatin silver vs gum bichromate vs platinum palladium and etc. </p>

[john_boyd9]

<p>what do you guys think about this local posting, does it seem like a good deal? <br>

http://toronto.craigslist.ca/tor/pho/4641369707.html</p>

[angie_nelson]

<p>I've been away from photography for many years so maybe there are better books and tools now, but I read Ansel Adams "The Negative" and "The Print" with a passion. I'm going over it again now with an eye toward using my Mamiya 645 Pro. If you're looking for a primer on basic step by step, I learned enough from there to get a 10 minute speech from the caretaker of a darkroom and was able to successfully develop and print without incident. I've never taken an official photography class.</p>

<p>My strategy is usually to use a college darkroom or a public darkroom. Here's just one way to find a local darkroom (there are others too, like calling the college near you and asking if you can use theirs, if not, where do they suggest you look)...<br>

<a href="http://www.localdarkroom.com/">http://www.localdarkroom.com/</a><br>

You'll probably have to find a similar web tool for Canada, but if you're up for a drive, there's one in Buffalo:<br>

<a href="http://www.localdarkroom.com/facilities/view.php">http://www.localdarkroom.com/facilities/view.php</a></p>

<p>Your post reminded me of a pro photographer who did in fact enlarge to enormous sizes by projecting on the wall. He is a b/w landscape photographer. One of the largest on his wall was 4x6 feet (!), but there were larger panoramics. I bought my Mamiya from him and he said he used it for the 4x6 (foot) prints. Don't be afraid to push the limits, my advice is to look for subjects that look cool while being a little grainy and hazy and soft focus. You might have some fun making some custom dodge and burn tools while you're at it. <br>

I haven't tried processing or printing at home, so I'll leave the advice about enlargers to others. I just wanted to remind that you can always find a darkroom almost anywhere. </p>

[john_boyd9]

<p>can anyone confirm if this is a good deal? <br>

<a href="http://toronto.craigslist.ca/tor/pho/4641369707.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://toronto.craigslist.ca/tor/pho/4641369707.html</a></p>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>Seems high for an Omega B22 with one lens. But the seller indicated he's open to negotiating. I'd offer $100 for the whole kit. That's about what I'd ask for one of my Durst enlargers and would include lenses for both 35mm and medium format.</p>

<p>The one older style Schneider-K 50mm f/4 Componon lens is good but not Schneider's top of the line 50mm f/2.8 Componon-S for 35mm negatives, and it doesn't include an 80mm (approx) lens for enlarging medium format negatives. The Cibachrome stuff doesn't add any value. The stainless tanks/reels may add some value if they're good quality Nikor (not Nikkor - that's Nikon lenses) or comparable quality reels. Looks like it includes a footswitch - that's good, very handy for keeping the hands free for dodging/burning.</p>

<p>The Gralab timer is a classic and not cheap to buy new or used by itself - that Gralab alone may account for most of the cost of the entire kit. If the seller isn't willing to negotiate the price lower, ask if he'll consider selling without the Gralab, which can be sold and shipped easily. Or you could resell it yourself, assuming it's in good working condition. Personally I prefer electronic timers, which are cheaper and work fine.</p>

<p>But value depends on availability of good darkroom equipment in your area. Personally I'd disregard those urban myths about darkroom equipment being given away or dumped on the curb. That may have been true in some areas a few years ago. But we're nearing the point of scarcity. Same thing that eventually made baseball cards collectible decades ago. Most were thrown away. Bits are lost or parted out - check the prices on oddball Durst lens carriers alone to get an idea of the replacement cost. As time goes on the few remaining bits are worth more. And some parts of the world never had a lot of darkrooms, so between the costs of shipping and trying to find a good working enlarger, I wouldn't count on lucking into a free enlarger or curbside orphan.</p>

[john_boyd9]

<p>Thanks Lex. I offered him $100 i will wait and see if he accepts. <br>

There are few other postings that are cheaper.<br>

Here are few, not sure how good these ones are..<br>

http://toronto.craigslist.ca/tor/pho/4658317716.html<br>

http://toronto.craigslist.ca/tor/pho/4599963727.html<br>

http://toronto.craigslist.ca/mss/pho/4645172311.html<br>

http://toronto.craigslist.ca/yrk/pho/4658603292.html</p>

[jim_covill]

<p>For mostly B & W printing, condenser head enlargers may be a better solution than colour oriented diffuser heads. The reason is contrast.<br>

I've owned both Durst and Omega enlargers with dual heads. For B & W portraiture oriented prints I'd generally use the diffuser head to get a 'softer' image. As far as lenses get an 80mm for MF film, 50mm for 35mm film. Get a high end enlarger lens (El-Nikkor, Schneider Componon-S, etc). If you're using a 'blad 500 series, spring for the very very best enlarging lens money can buy. If you require big printing making, make sure you have an extended length column.</p>