Question regarding selling on eBay - from an eBay newbie

cjk · July 10, 2014

<p>(I posted this to the "Internet Sellers forum" but that forum doesn't seem to appear anywhere in the list of forum to browse. It only shows when creating a new post.)</p>

<p>Greetings,<br>

I am a total eBay newbie and for the first time ever, I am trying to sell something on eBay (3 lenses). To avoid risk, I listed them with "Local pick-up only" and "NO returns" but I've already received requests from people all over, including from Indonesia.<br>

Though I am not willing to deal with the hassle of shipping overseas, I have 2 potential buyers in the US (TX and CA) and I am wondering what is the safest way to manage a transaction like this?<br>

I read eBay's policies, researched the Net, etc. but can't figure just one easy reliable way. So my questions:<br>

- One of the buyers (TX) sent me a text message (I guess eBay sent them my contact info) asking for my Paypal account details (email) to pay me. My understanding is that they to pay through eBay and all the info they need to make the payment is already there. Is that correct? Is s/he trying to go around eBay's policies and procedures?<br>

- If I end up going with someone not local, what would the process look like? Is it something like the below?<br />- The click on Buy Now (or wait till the end of the auction)<br />- They use a button someone on eBay's site to pay me (through Paypal)<br />- I ship them the item (with tracking, proof of delivery, etc.)<br />- Paypal releases the money<br />- That's it (no returns, no hassles??)<br>

Any advice from regular eBay users would be much appreciated.<br>

CJK</p>

ShunCheung · July 10, 2014

<p>If you would like to deal with local buyers, why don't you use Craig's List instead?</p>

Member69643 · July 10, 2014

<p>Ebay has gotten so buyer-friendly that you essentially can not, ever, list no returns. The option is still there but if the buyer initiates a case saying the item was not as described, you'll have to accept it as a return. Ebay will enforce that.</p>

<p>You can eliminate non-local buyers by listing the item as local pickup only and ignoring anyone who asks for shipment.</p>

cjk · July 10, 2014

I've had not so great experiences with Craig's List where people either never show up to agreed-to meetings or just keep lowballing. I was told (and read) that eBay is much better. And with over 10 Million people in and around NYC, I was hoping to find someone genuinely interested... </p>

<p>Patrick: <br>

I did that but what do you do when someone clicks the "Buy now" button? That effectively takes the item off the market and then you've lost 2-3-4 (?) days to re-list again. </p>

ant_nio_marques · July 10, 2014

<p>I'm not a seller (so far). I've had to return an item once because it was defective. 'No returns' is supposed to apply only if the item is as described. As such, it may be a loophole, dishonest buyers may simply say the item wasn't OK and the burden is on you. I'm not sure that local pickup makes any difference. As far as I can see, the only possibility is if you don't accept paypal. That way, I <strong>suppose</strong> the burden will be on the buyer, and dishonest buyers may be put off straight away, but honest ones will be too. Local pickup with cash would seem to be the way to go.</p>

<p>People can always ask you whether you ship to them. I'd ignore such request only if you had specifically excluded such shipping, in which case he product's page will say 'will not ship to X' instead of 'may not ship to X'. You can see what your offer looks like by visiting the site with another browser and not logging in. If you didn't specifically exclude the shipment, then I'd reply saying 'sorry, no'. ALWAYS use the 'reply now' link from ebay to send a message. Never ever send messages thru simple email, and don't reply to simple email either.</p>

<p>Do NOT pay any attention to requests for any of your data, including paypal account. Paypal payment is done via ebay, clicking on a button, without your details ever going to the buyer. Otherwise, you're not only at risk but violating policy.</p>

<p>It's VERY strange that the buyer got your data. He may have tracked you on facebook or similar. Try to protect your identity, this includes the public data on your account. Outside of companies, I hardly ever get to know the name of the people I buy things from. (Except after it arrives with the poster's name on the packet, of course.)</p>

<p>It's VERY DISTRESSING if the buyer contacted you before the auction was over. (Unless you've set up a 'Buy now' thing, of course. If I were to seek anything, I'd put a starting price and let the auction run. I don't think long auctions are worth it, since expert buyers only bid on the last minutes. And they have alerts to know what's been just offered. I'd set it to be a few days only. I wouldn't do as folks do who start it at 0. My understanding is that they have a shadow bidder account in order to ensure the final price won't be too low. That's against policy, by the way.</p>

<p>Do NOT reply to strange or irregular requests. If people are interested they will find a way to query you correctly. Irregular requests are best left unanswered than trying to be engaged with even if it's with the intention to tell them how things ought to be done. Let them find that by themselves.</p>

<p>Do NOT yield to the temptation of selling things quickly. There is always demand for them. Prices are more likely to go up than down.</p>

ShunCheung · July 10, 2014

<p>I don't use it as much, but my friends and family have great experience with Craig's List here in the San Jose/Silicon Valley area. There are always difficult buyers regardless of whether you find them via eBay, Craig's List or something else. Gradually you'll develop skills to filter out the undesirable ones.</p>

<p>Incidentally, if you specify no return, you will definitely screen out most serious buyers. Deal locally, let them check out the lenses in a face-to-face meeting and receive cash probably protects both parties. You are fortunate to be in a large city to make local deals much easier.</p>

peter_cohen · July 10, 2014

<p><strong>Cesar</strong>: A couple of quick responses (I've been buying and selling on eBay for 11 years).</p>

<p>When you use the Buy It Now feature, you can stipulate that it must be an instant payment. Also, eBay would not give out your phone number. If you got a text, did you list your phone number in the ad?</p>

<p>Unless you use eBay's escrow process, you get paid from PayPal as soon as the buyer pays. If somebody sends you a message and asks to complete the deal outside of the eBay process (like asking you for your PayPal user ID), do not go along with it. You are losing a certain degree of protection by leaving eBay's system.</p>

<p>In your listing, state that payment must be received in XX number of hours, or you will cancel the transaction. You can also stipulate that only buyers with a certain feedback rating need apply. Check eBay's help files, and you'll find just about every situation covered.</p>

craig_shearman1 · July 10, 2014

<p>I've both bought and sold on eBay and for me "local pickup only" and "no returns" are big no-nos. As for no returns, it basically tells the buyer they are taking a total gamble and that if the item turns out to be junk they are just plain out of luck. I would never buy from someone who says no returns. As for local pickup, that's one that is usually used only for something so big, bulky and heavy that it's not practical to ship. For anything else, it raises several issues, including the safety of both the buyer and the seller. Do you really want a stranger coming to your home, where you have advertised that you have valuable camera equipment? As a buyer, would you want to go see a stranger who knows you're carrying a large amount of cash?</p>

Spearhead · July 10, 2014

<p>Do you really want a stranger coming to your home</p>

</blockquote>

It's pretty simple to go to a coffee shop. This is true with CL also, and is how I sell everything now. It's completely safe and the obvious solution.<br>

</p>

<p>I've had not so great experiences with Craig's List where people either never show up to agreed-to meetings or just keep lowballing. </p>

</blockquote>

I always insist on a phone conversation first. I have never had someone not show up, and lowballing has been less than 5% in the few instances it's been an issue.</p>

ShunCheung · July 10, 2014

<p>It is very common to have the transaction at your/somebody's office, your local Starbucks Coffee, etc. Last year a friend of mine sold a used car on Craig's List that was over $5000, and she had my wife and me over to monitor the process. The buyer's party had three people, as well. I was counting the cash for her while she was dealing with the buyer's paperwork. If necessary, you can even do the cash part inside a bank so that the cash never leaves the bank. (In the case of that car, it was sold on a Sunday so that the bank wasn't open, though.)</p>

John Seaman · July 10, 2014

<p>You will get requests for a buy it now price. and for posting costs to different parts of the world. especially for high value or unusual items. I normally just politely reply in the negative, saying I want the auction to run its course, or that I only post in the UK.</p>

<p>The best way to get into Ebay is to buy a few things first, to get a feel for the process, then start selling initially with lower value "cheap and cheerful" items, until you have decided what works for you. I normally advertise "returns accepted" and when they are sold, contact the buyer saying thanks for buying etc, i'm posting it tomorrow or whenever, and to let me know if there's any problem. The worst case is that they're not happy and send it back, then just put it behind you and move on. Posting things is no great hassle really (at least here in the UK). It's actually easier than faffing around making appointments, meeting up, waiting in etc., obviously it's different for large heavy items.</p>

<p>I've been buying for about a year, and selling for about seven months, and have had no real problems, and a lot of good reactions from buyers and sellers.</p>

cjk · July 10, 2014

<p>Guys, thank you so much for the great feedback. I am going to try and revise the ads to take them into account. <br>

Or I might just drop the whole thing altogether and go with selling to Adorama (face to face!). But the price they offer is way lower.... <br>

Re. sharing of personal info, I got this email from eBay saying that the buyer requested info on me (formatting got lost in the copy-paste). eBay released to them the full name and the phone number (and City / Zipcode) (I replaced them with XXX in the text below).<br>

Cheers, </p>

<p>Cesar</p>

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<td align="left" valign="bottom"><strong>eBay sent this message to CJ Kastoun (xxxx).</strong><br />Your registered name is included to show this message originated from eBay. <a href="http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/name-userid-emails.html">Learn more</a>.</td>

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<td>Dear XXXX and XXXX, <br /><br />This message is an automated reply to a contact information request made by roxxy825. This request is related to item #261528143733.

<br />Important Usage Guidelines: <br /><br />

<ul>

<li>1. This contact information should only be used for resolving matters related to eBay. Any other use is strictly prohibited.</li>

<li>2. Use of this information to complete a transaction outside of eBay is not permitted. Items purchased outside of eBay are not eligible for eBay services.</li>

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<td valign="top">CJ Kastoun</td>

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<td valign="top" nowrap="nowrap" width="15%">Registered Since:</td>

<td valign="top">Sunday, Jul 06, 2014 07:28:41 PDT</td>

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<td valign="top" nowrap="nowrap" width="15%">Email:</td>

<td valign="top"><a href="mailto: rox*********@outlook.com">rox*********@outlook.com</a></td>

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<td valign="top">xxxxxx</td>

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<td valign="top">United States</td>

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cjk · July 10, 2014

<p>Yes, you are absolutely right. I came to that realization shortly after receiving the first few solicitations. I should have indeed tried buying/selling a few low-value items before. Live and learn...</p>

<p>But still, here's a question: Imagine you ship your item, then the buyer sends it back saying it's defective and when you receive it, it is actually defective, i.e. the buyer mishandled it or broke it. How do you get out of that situation?? How do you prove to eBay that the item was working fine when you sent it? All that -- and probably other paranoid scenarios -- went through my mind while going through this experience. </p>

hjoseph7 · July 10, 2014

<p><em>"It's pretty simple to go to a coffee shop. This is true with CL also, and is how I sell everything now. It's completely safe and the obvious solution."</em></p>

<p>California dreaming...</p>

dave_s · July 10, 2014

<p>I've bought a lot of stuff on ebay-- more second hand books than photo gear-- and sold some cameras and lenses. FWIW, the great majority of people on ebay are OK, just like in the real world. I've rarely if ever had someone do something overtly sneaky or dishonest.</p>

John Seaman · July 10, 2014

<p>Cesar, this hasn't happened to me but you do read horror stories. It might be impossible to prove the item was undamaged when you sent it. The bottom line is not to get involved in lengthy acrimonious disputes. Life's too short. Just cut your losses and refund the buyer. I know it sounds like giving in but there are risks in whatever we try to achieve.</p>

hjoseph7 · July 10, 2014

<p>The worse experience I had on eBay was when a seller took 3 months to deliver the merchandise. I gave this user a negative rating, but then they countered with a negative rating of their own which stayed with me for at least a year. I also had a handful of items conk out on me a few days, or weeks after purchase. This did not happen very often, but I did learn Not to purchase items on a whim.<br>

You need to read the item description carefully and also 'very important', the shipping charges. Some sellers will sell you an item for cheap then hammer you with shipping charges to make up for it.<br>

Selling on eBay is just as easy. I wont budge until all the money is in my account, then within 1 or 2 days I pack and ship the item. </p>

Dieter Schaefer · July 10, 2014

<p>Bought and sold a lot of stuff on ebay - but more and more shy away from selling on ebay and have gotten very careful who I purchase from. I always offered a return option within a reasonable time frame (1-3 days) - but now ebay forces me to allow at least 14 days for a return. Definitely too long - especially with the current buyer friendly policies - I am not a rental place and nothing would prevent a person to get my lens or camera, have a nice vacation with it and then return it "not as described" because of the scratches that were added while in their possession - all for the price of the return shipping. I end up with a item that is now worth less (if not defective) and have to go through all the hassle of selling it again. As already mentioned, most ebay users are honest - but the number of those who aren't isn't zero. Of course, buyers are getting used to having generous return periods - the big stores usually offer 30-days of "no questions asked" returns. As an ebay seller, I can not afford to be that generous.</p>

<p>In addition, it appears to be almost mandatory nowadays to offer "free shipping" - and with ebay and paypal fees that amounts to some 12-15% of the purchase price (and considerably more if shipping internationally). I recently tried to sell a 6-month old lens and realized (a) I can't compete with the professional stores that offer free shipping and (b) expect a reasonable amount for a barely used lens. In fact, I could have mailed it to adorama or keh and would have gotten what was offered to me on ebay without any hassle at all. And that is what selling on ebay now amounts to - a lot of potential and real hassle.</p>

<p>To me the "no return" isn't a big turn-off - but the "local pickup only" would be. There is just no way I would meet some stranger any place with either merchandise or a wad of cash in my pocket. And unless I do the transaction inside a bank, I would not accept a $100 bill from a stranger. Another issue of course is that buying from a new seller with no feedback carries more risk - and from that sellers perspective will likely result in a sale at much less than the desired amount.</p>

<p>I wanted to emphasize what has been brought up already - the only acceptable form of payment is through paypal - do not accept any other form of payment (like money order or personal check). Stay within the ebay/paypal system - don't accept payment outside of it - you lose most of your protection if you do. I am not aware of ebay or paypal offering any escrow service - and I would never agree to use a third party one - the risk of losing both the money and the merchandise is too great. Note that in case a buyer files a dispute, your paypal funds will be frozen until the dispute is resolved. That's why a lot of sellers transfer money out of paypal before shipping merchandise.</p>

<p>@Harry: my worst experience was not receiving any merchandise at all and then learning that a money order isn't a safe and traceable form of payment (as I had assumed). In addition, at that time ebay was not helpful at all and buyer protection was nowhere near where it is today. I also had someone leave me negative feedback - as it turned out, he mistook me for someone else and despite both of us contacting ebay, ebay refused to cancel or erase the feedback. My experience with paypal have been positive though - a case of not-delivered merchandise was reported to both paypal and the credit card company (always use a credit card when making paypal payments, never e-check or direct transfer) and resolved within a couple of weeks.</p>

SCL · July 10, 2014

<p>Cesar - Ebay is pretty simple and reliable, in spite of the gripes you hear and read about. If it was so bad, they wouldn't have millions of transactions each year in hundreds of countries and lots of repeat business. But, like any business, there are nuances and protection issues you need to be knowledgable about. I've bought and sold for over 9 years on Ebay (mostly camera geahttp://www.focalpointlens.com/fp_intro.htmlr, but also antiques and art works. I've had less than 5 returns during that time. Here's why (from the selling side): I price my gear competitively to sell, and it usually does...no matter what the condition. I illustrate condition with sharp, clear, detailed photos - lots of them, and knowledgeable text so that the potential buyer knows exactly what to expect. I often include things not included in standard descriptions like special features (like a lens....what variant or unique characteristic for the one I am selling, the serial number, sample photos taken with the lens). I usually restrict my sales to the continental USA..although if the market is stronger overseas, I'll sell internationally, but restrict what countries I ship to...based on the performance and reliability of their delivery systems. Ebay recently offered a new service to encourage overseas sales, where you ship the item to a domestic shipping center (a lot less expensive to the buyer) which forwards it with carriers with whom they have delivery contracts; your responsibility is to get it safely to the shipping center, and it is guaranteed and insured from thereon. However, if a subsequent carrier damages or fails to deliver the merchandise, you and the buyer are covered. I recently proved a case where a lens was damaged after leaving the domestic center and before arrival at the buyer's address (in Malasia) - by having firm photographic documentation, supplemented by same from the buyer. Resolving it took a little time, but once they had the documentation from all parties, reimbursement was within 24 hours. Local pickup is a PITA, even at a Starbucks...it takes time from my schedule, and most of my sales aren't local anyway. If a potential buyer asks, I'll usually accommodate him. Payment is always by Paypal....no exceptions. I also use Craigslist, but often people don't show up who have called to make an appointment, or they want to come to my house at night (absolutely not)! I usually net a lot more from Ebay transactions than I get from Craigslist or sales to dealers. I don't usually sell to newbies either...I don't particularly want to do a lot of hnad-holding with people who don't have realistic expectations...but here too I make exceptions. Some items I don't want back, and I make a special effort when describing the item that it is being sold "as-is" with no returns, and invite them to ask questions well in advance of the end of an auction or before hitting the "buy-it-now" button. I also require immediate Paypal payments from "buy-it-now" sales. As you can see, it isn't complicated, but to be successful and sleep nights does require a little effort on your part.</p>

cjk · July 10, 2014

<p>Dieter, Stephen & al, </p>

<p>thank you for a most valuable advice. On the advice of a eBay rep, I added some buyers' constraints (local only, etc.). I am going to stick to "local pick up only" for now, though it will clearly limit my "market". I am going to let the auction run its course and see what happens. </p>

<p>If the outcome is not positive, I will try again a in few weeks, after -- hopefully -- having gained some more experience with the site. Or maybe just give up and sell to Adorama. </p>

<p>Again, thanks to all for the very valuable input. </p>

SCL · July 10, 2014

<p>I can understand limiting sales to local pickup only for something like an enlarger which is cumbersome and costly to package and ship, but not a lens. Personally, I would offer local pickup as an option for somebody who doesn't want to pay shipping charges, but fully expect to ship the lens to a buyer. You can get free boxes from the post office, buy your postage & insurance online (discounted from counter rates), create a mailing label and have the P.O. pick up the package from your home or office...the buyer pays all these fees.</p>

Mike Gammill · July 11, 2014

<p>In addition to required details clearly state what you will not do (like sales outside your country, etc.) and add that questions about what you are not willing to do will go unanswered and stick to it. Local pickup is not just good for bulky items, but also allows the buyer to make certain the product is working properly. </p>

cjk · July 11, 2014

<p>I am already worried enough about selling on eBay and I just received the message below from them. Pfffff. <br>

That was a "buyer" who wanted me to ship a lens to Indonesia... </p>

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<h1>MC010 Account Security Communication Partner Warning - kastous</h1>

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<td align="left" valign="top" width="100%">Hello kastous (),<br /><br />Our records show that you recently contacted or received messages from XYZ through eBay's messaging system. This account was recently found to have been accessed by an unauthorized third party, who may have used the account in an attempt to defraud other members. <br /><br />We've taken action to restore this account to the original owner, but wanted to let you know to be suspicious of any communication you may have received from them. Nothing is wrong with your account at this time ? this message is just being sent as a precaution. If you have received any messages from that appears suspicious, please feel free to forward them to us at <a href="mailto:spoof@ebay.com">spoof@ebay.com</a> for review. <br /><br />-- Safety Tips --<br />-- Don't respond to the sender, through either eBay or your email provider, if the message is an offer to buy or sell an item. This type of offer may be fraudulent, and the transaction won't be covered by eBay protection programs. </td>

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cjk · July 11, 2014

<p>And another alert from eBay: </p>

Hello kastous,<br>

We had to cancel bids for the buyer, roxxy825, because they aren't registered on eBay:<br />261528143733 - Nikon Nikkor 24-70 mm F/2.8 AS G SWM AF-S IF N ED M/A Lens<br />261528143733 - Nikon Nikkor 24-70 mm F/2.8 AS G SWM AF-S IF N ED M/A Lens<br>

------------<br>

So there seems to be quite a good amount of scam, but also good monitoring from eBay.<br>

Meanwhile the dirty tricks the 2 scammers played on me wasted my time and took the lens off the market for 2 days. AND they made me hit the limit on the amount of stuff I can sell as a newbie seller, which eBay doesn't seem to update automatically after canceling the 2 fraudulent bids. So I have to call them to get that cleaned up. </p>

dhbebb · July 18, 2014

<p><em>ship a lens to Indonesia...</em><br>

For me in the UK, there’s a simple test. I send things abroad only by the Royal Mail “International Signed For” service (tracking and insurance). Based on experience, I am sure, the Royal Mail does not offer this service for every country – I automatically refuse to send to any country where I can’t use this service. I also accept payment only through PayPal – this is frequently useful if goods I’ve bought don’t turn up. The downsides are the fees and the fact that PayPal will almost always take the buyer’s side in any dispute, but e-bay remains by far the best option for me, living as I do in a small rural town in the UK.</p>

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