RAW or cooked?

[raybrizzi]

<p>I tried to post a question yesterday but I guess it didn't go through. However, it's just as well since i resolved it with a lot of testing. I had been having some problems with my K-5 over the last month or so. The LCD panel would be darker than it should, and colors were considerably unsaturated. I tried playing with the color wheel but it didn't do very much. Also set the LCD brightness to the max.<br>

Since I shoot everything in RAW, I assumed it might be a failure of the display electronics, since it was both in preview and playback. I tried playing with the LCD color wheel but it didn't do very much. Then I pulled out the manual and started going through all the options.<br>

Turns out that the problem was in the filter processing (right arrow during exposure mode.) I set the default BRIGHTNESS option to center settings and things got better. I always assumed that RAW was RAW and whatever you shot came through and those exposure options only applied to the jpg if you shot jpg or RAW+. But when i tried things like monochrome or reversal, it affected the RAW files as well. I thought that the whole purpose of RAW was to pass along everything just as it was received on the sensor with no processing, so i could get the monochrome on the jpg but as is on the RAW. Old shots on playback all look dull now although I brightened things up in Lightroom later.<br>

Is there an option to let RAW come through as shot with no modifications and only modify the jpegs? I thought that was its purpose to begin with.<br>

<br />Thanks, Ray</p>

<p><br /><br /></p>

[Wouter Willemse]

<p>Ray, while I am not a Pentax shooter, I think what you experienced is normal; it is at least what would happen on my Nikons. The image you see on the display when you shoot raw, is a preview-JPEG, embedded inside the raw file. This preview is cooked according to the specs set in-camera (so including sharpness, saturation settings as well as possible filters). It looks exactly the same as a JPEG would look.<br>

The underlying raw data, however, isn't modified and when you open it in most editors (Lightroom, for example), you will not notice anything of the camera settings at all - it will show the colour image using the default settings of the editor (possibly the pentax software does respect the in-camera settings as 'default' settings, I do not know).</p>

[raybrizzi]

<p>I agree with you. And yet when I brought the pictures up in lightroom, both the raw and the jpeg were in monochrome. So something isn't right somewhere it seems.</p>

 

[JosvanEekelen]

<p>Once I accidentally had my (Canon) DSLR set to black and white. Lightroom did read the files in color, though at first instance the pictures appeared as b/w. I don't recall the actions I had to take to get them in color but the pure RAWs were present. Of course your/Pentax MMV.</p>

[phule]

<p>[[And yet when I brought the pictures up in lightroom, both the raw and the jpeg were in monochrome. So something isn't right somewhere it seems.]]</p>

<p>1 of 2 things are possible here:<br>

1) You didn't give Lightroom enough time to finish generating it's own preview image. When Lightroom imports RAW photos it shows you the embedded JPG file. In your case, it showed you the black and white image. Then, it generates it's own full-color preview based on its reading of the RAW file. This can take a few moments depending on the speed of your computer and the settings you have for generating previews. </p>

<p>2) It's also possible to apply a Lightroom-based B&W preset to all images imported. It is possible to have Lightroom immediately apply some B&W values to the RAW data such that it generates the preview images in B&W. This seems less likely, as you would have had to make deliberate choices during the import process. </p>

<p>There is nothing wrong with any of your systems. I think you just need a better understanding of RAW data. There are many, many good guides online that describe RAW data, especially guides built around Lightroom. </p>

[Wouter Willemse]

<p>Did Lightroom make its own preview? I'm not using LR myself, but I know most raw programs pull in the raw files, show the built-in JPEG preview while preparing their own rendered previews - so there can be a delay after importing before you see the "lightroom" version (and/or maybe you need to manually request this preview to be rendered, and/or open the larger version and start editing?).</p>

[ellis_vener_photography]

If you are using Pentax's software, by default, if it is like the Canon and Nikon software processing software, it treats your

camera's JPEG settings as the processing template to follow when you run your Pentax raw format files through it.

 

Your JPEG settings also are used for processing the preview you see on the back of the camera and also the camera

preview's histogram. This is and other histogram facts are explained at http://www.ppmag.com/web-

exclusives/2007/12/what-is-a-histogram-and-how-do.html

[hjoseph7]

<p>Whenever I shoot RAW with my K-5 II and I use Pentax software, the AWB color temperature is automatically set to 5000K. When I shoot outdoors I like my color temperature around 5400-5600K so I have to go in and set the temperature manually. Coming from Canon, I notice that the settings on the Pentax play a HUGE part on how the final picture is rendered in comparison to the settings on the Canon cameras which are much more subtle. </p>

[raybrizzi]

<p>The black and white even happened when I did RAW only with monochrome selected, no jpeg. I didn't give it a long time to build new ones but will play with it a bit. I guess it's a misunderstanding since I thought the whole point of RAW was to get exactly what was there and pass it through untouched. Live and learn. I've only had the camera for 3 years :() Thanks all! Will be trying some more things today. At least I don't have to get the camera fixed as I thought.</p>

[raybrizzi]

<p>Just to make sure, I removed the preview folder so it would force new previews to be built. Just as Wouter said, after a minute or so, the thumbnail and the picture did pop up in color. It did say color in the develop module. Thanks again!</p>

[phule]

<p>( Edit: this response was written prior to seeing the update re: preview folder. )</p>

<p>[[The black and white even happened when I did RAW only with monochrome selected, no jpeg]]</p>

<p>Is your RAW file a DNG file or a PEF file? I had assumed PEF. If that's the case then Lighroom will behave as I described in point 1 above.<br>

<br /> However, if you are saving RAW as a DNG file, (which is a file format developed by Adobe) then Lightroom will likely honor your B&W in-camera selection for your previews. But make no mistake, the files are full color. You just need to reflect that by making a change to them in the Develop window as a part of the "Basic" panel.</p>

<p>It is rather important to remember that RAW files are actually NOT image files. You cannot view them by themselves. They are, essentially, descriptions on how to create image files. They, like a film, need to be developed in order to see an image. Software programs like Lightroom are the developers. <br /> The wonderful thing about the RAW file format is that you can develop them again, and again, and again, and again with many different settings.</p>

[MattB.Net]

<p>Try this: in Lightroom bring up one of the affected files, switch to the develop module, and then click on the Reset button in the lower right area of the screen. <br>

Does it turn to a color image now? If it does, then LR is applying changes to the preview of the raw file somehow (either from info embedded in the file or setting in the LR import module, most likely).<br>

If it doesn't then everything I believe about RAW files is wrong and I'm going to have to update what I believe to be true! :)</p>

[MattB.Net]

<p>Oops, glad to see it's resolved!</p>

[raybrizzi]

<p>Even more has been resolved. I didn't mention that I thought my LCD screen was going bad because of how dull the colors looked when reviewing, like saturating down 50 percent and also darker. I had accidentally turned the processing mode to Bleach Bypass as I found out later. I checked because of all the comments here. But again, RAW was not affected. I almost sent it in to Pentax before my warranty ran out... Thanks for the input.<br>

<br />Indeed, those settings would only affect the jpg and thimbnail and in camera viewing, not the RAW image. I feel much better (and dumber) now...</p>

[MattB.Net]

<p>When I was shooting from a motorcycle in a bike race recently I somehow accidentally put my K-3 into cross process mode which made me think I was getting bad exposures or having a camera malfunction. Not time to fix it on the bike so I just kept shooting. hen we stopped and I could look at it I noticed. Shooting raw made it a non-issue in the end.</p>