What do we have to do to get the Off Topic Forum back

[chuck -]

<p>Interesting to note that most of the contributors to this thread are longer-term, paying subscribers... Pnet, take note...</p>

[john_h.1]

<blockquote>

<p>the idea that if you don't like it you can just ignore it doesn't hold water. You can logically extend that to anything. "...Lets have a forum where you can swear, curse, post bigoted racial and ethic slurs, insult other participants etc. You don't have to read it. If you don't like reading that type of thing, just ignore it..."</p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

I think that's rather extreme and none of those things are allowed anywhere in any event. Some people just don't like others opinions on hot button issues and are bothered when reading them. In any event, Sarah's idea was to cut out politics (I might add religion). I agree moderation headaches are a legitimate issue but if certain topics are specifically banned less people will get in to it and such topics may be easy to spot and deal with. I imagine moderation of closer calls that arise within threads may be an issue and can see some close calls could be needed for various news events and the like. So maybe it would be burdensome. </p>

[Sanford]

<p>I think this thread could easily deteriorate into the very thing that got "Off Topic" cancelled. </p>

[david_l3]

<p>+1 for Diane. I miss the food and cooking discussions with familiar folks chiming in. If we can't agree on Nikon vs. Canon, we can agree on ways to cook spicy chicken and noodles, or salads, or stews. And not to mention showing off our culinary victories in photos. </p>

[MichaelChang]

<p>It could, Sanford, but it won't due to the majority of cooler prevailing heads. </p>

[Rick Helmke]

<p>I miss it, wish it were still here. I can read what I want and pass by the rest. If it gets ugly and uncivilized so what? That has it's place in any forum. Says a lot about the people running the place I guess.</p>

<p>Rick H.</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>I do miss it, too, for Sarah's reasons and others.</p>

<p>Forbid and remove any posts on God, Guns, Evolution, and Climate Change?</p>

<p>Maybe make it impossible to get to from the "Unified View"?</p>

<p>Make a new "off-topics" only for paying members?</p>

<p> </p>

[sarah_fox]

<p>David, ah, yes, the cooking! I've been dying to tell my fellow PN foodies about my new pizza dough discovery -- how to stretch the perfect dough, almost effortlessly and without mashing it with a rolling pin. No skill needed! And yet there's no way to do it. [sigh]</p>

<p>OK, OK... I'll cheat and tell you here: Put the semi-stretched dough ball over a humungous inverted mixing bowl, and gravity will do the rest, giving you a perfect, circular stretch with no thin spots!</p>

<p>^^^ See, it's really important stuff like this we need to share with our good friends! Where else are we going to do it?</p>

[AlanKlein]

<blockquote>

<p ><a name="00cAom"></a><a href="/photodb/user?user_id=3770455">Gordon B</a> <a href="/member-status-icons"><img title="Current POW Recipient" src="/v3graphics/member-status-icons/trophy.gif" alt="" /></a>, Nov 20, 2013; 07:04 p.m.</p>

</blockquote>

 

<blockquote>

<p>I for one am relieved to hear that Alan is sleeping better and getting his blood pressure under control.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>However, I really miss getting picked on for my centrist views.</p>

 

[mark_pierlot]

<blockquote>

<p>However, I really miss getting picked on for my centrist views.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>You're a funny guy, Alan. It's comments such as this that make me miss the Off Topic Forum the most.</p>

[SCL]

<p>I don't miss the vipers, nut cases and backbiting, but Sarah just reminded me that I do miss some of the offbeat solutions to stuff in our everyday lives.</p>

[jim_j2]

<p>I didn't participate much but, . . . I do miss reading through most of the threads that sounded much like this one, . . . even more, . . . like a family having a conversation around the dinner table, . . . Mark digging a bit at Alan, Alan digging a bit at Gordon and Sarah telling us about her new found Pizza dough about the time Lupo would give us a food shot!<br>

Was great entertainment, I had no problems just ignoring the "heated discussions" if they did not interest me and, others made for interesting reading.</p>

<p>Oh well, . . . now it just takes less time to browse through PN searching for something interesting!</p>

[leo_papandreou1]

<p>Hide the url from people who don't want to read it. There are various ways to accomplish this, the easiest is probably to add an account option, say, "Show Off-topic forum: disable (default) | enable", in addition to the ones that currently exist, for instance, "Cover nude images: disable | enable". The option can be disabled by an administrator on a per-account basis, for N days up to forever, in order help people who can't help themselves, either because they want to participate but are doing it wrong, or else don't want to read the forum at all but are doing that wrong. This way we can talk about anything we want, and no one has to pluck out their own eye because of it.</p>

[Gup]

<p>If anyone is bored there is currently a thread in progress with 835 posts (including 356 from a similar previous post) discussing a yet to be released body from Nikon. Yet to be released!<br>

I would love to discuss that thread in the OT forum. </p>

[gulfbeach47]

<p>Gup.... LOL</p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>Leo's suggestion is a good one. That would help prevent drive-by blood-curdling among the people who otherwise would get dragged into heated debates they wish they hadn't seen. <br /><br />I'll add another suggestion: set up the ROBOTS.TXT file so that Google, Bing and the rest <em>do not index </em>the revived OT forum. I completely get why PN wouldn't want the site's reputation grubbed up by having it float high on searches involving some of the OTF's rougher edges. Just keep the search engines from crawling it in the first place.</p>

[sgust]

<p>I'd be in support of bringing it back. As far as I'm concerned, it could be the same as it used to be. If people get heated I tend to just sit back and watch or tune out, as I think most do. But I think the suggestions to make it subscriber only and not have it show up on off-site searches would be a good idea. There is a certain sense of community here, and the OT forum helped reinforce it.</p>

[gulfbeach47]

<p>Another (paid) member vote to bring it back. <br />Just ignore going to the OT forum or ignore threads that are derailing. I am in no way condoning threads that are full of arguing, hate speak etc.. Those threads can be quickly reported and deleted. <br /><br />I have posted a few threads that ended up getting moved to another forum. Some times it was difficult deciding where to post a question or comment, so I would just use the the OT forum to be on the safe side.</p>

[MichaelChang]

<blockquote>

<p><em>"I'm waiting for Michael to find and post an interesting YouTube video that explains and supports the benefits of an Off Topic forum."</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Tim, I can think of a slew of well reasoned arguments for the existence of a well functioning OT forum, but at the same time I can also understand that PN is primarily a photography site and needs to develop its business accordingly without distraction. <br>

<br>

The middle ground, I think, is for each of us to also put in a bit more effort to help PN's primary business/site objectives by positively participating in other areas. It's elective, of course, and most of us already contribute by our patronage and site activities, but given the current climate of a highly competitive Internet environment, I don't think it's too much to ask of ourselves, and in return I'm sure we'll all feel a little more positive about our influence toward an improved site culture which will also make the OT forum's return, without restrictions, seem more appealing to management. <br>

<br>

We also know that moderators are unpaid volunteers and everything falls on their shoulders when any of us misbehave. It's what they volunteered for, we might say, but that doesn't mean we should make their job unbearable, so due consideration is not only toward one another in our interaction, but also respect for the volunteers and the recognition of broader site objectives in community-building. <br>

<br>

"They" can provide the platform but we are the only ones that can make it happen. That, to me, is a privilege, a responsibility, and an opportunity if I want to make PN my home base and a place to park my ass outside of real life. <br>

</p>

[colin carron]

<p>I miss the OT forum too. Sometimes in workplaces where it is important to keep the peace there is a rule about 'No Politics and No Religion'. I would have thought a simple rule like that would have worked. Just the 'No Politics' bit would get rid of most of the dreary wrangling.<br /> <br /> To me the problem wit the OT forum was that people posting got little feedback from the moderators about what was and was not acceptable. With the new release due soon where users can comment on posts would it not be a fairly simple matter to flag up posts which drew lots of negative attention? This would make moderators' lives simpler and give that <em><strong>stronger</strong></em> <em><strong>feedback on what is acceptable.</strong></em> I think we would then all have a much clearer idea about how to play nicely. In my experience children usually do better when the grown-ups have set down clear limits.</p>

[richard_]

<p>Been thinking of alternative names to replace "Off topic" - but one that would reflect topic discussions other than the *hot issues* stuff that some are upset about. What about :<br>

"Leisure and Life Activities"<br>

Anyway, just an suggestion. Maybe others have some too...</p>

[Brad_]

I think a lot of people here still do not understand, or forget, why the OT was closed down. To suggest it was simply because some people

here simply didn't like the forum and its dynamics, and were unable to help themselves by simply ignoring the OT forum and

participate elsewhere, is amazing. Though that's exactly what a small number of people who behaved badly creating a toxic

atmosphere ultimately bringing the forum down, selfishly suggested that's what members should do if they didn't like the situation.

People should go back and look at the half-dozen previous threads on this subject (in the site help forum, where discussions

like this should take place), where the administrators/moderators explained in great detail their excellent reasons for terminating

the OT forum for the time being.

 

 

>>> To me the problem wit the OT forum was that people posting got little feedback from the moderators about what was and

was not acceptable.

 

From what I understand there was plenty of feedback; both individually and to the group in general as to expected acceptable

behavior.

[fmueller]

<p>I miss it too - particularly political discussions. They are either not allowed elsewhere on the net, or a certain forum attracts only people with a certain view. You never get the diversity we had on PN, which is the spice of life!</p>

<p>Regarding food discussions, I joined another cooking related forum since PN OT was closed, and had a whole thread deleted by a mod because it was 'too chatty'. I kid you not!</p>

<p>Here are my suggestions for a new and improved PN OT:</p>

<p>- Make it subscribers only, and opt-in; ie only those who subscribe and opt into an OT Forum will see it.</p>

<p>- If you want to top this, charge $5-10 extra for it per year!</p>

<p>- Make it unmoderated and put a corresponding disclaimer on the door. Enter at your own risk!</p>

<p>- Don't include it in the unified view, and hide it from search bots like Leo and Matt suggested.</p>

[Tim_Lookingbill]

<blockquote>

<p>I do miss reading through most of the threads that sounded much like this one, . . . even more, . . . like a family having a conversation around the dinner table, . . . Mark digging a bit at Alan, Alan digging a bit at Gordon and Sarah telling us about her new found Pizza dough about the time Lupo would give us a food shot!</p>

</blockquote>

<p>And me over at the kiddy table futilely giving glancing gestures toward the adults who only seem to see me as a mere distant relative with bizarre comprehension deficits and poor grammar.</p>

<p>I will not be ignored! Or I'll throw one of my dangly participles at you!</p>

[charleswood]

<p>The way I look at the OT forum is that it was like an art form, like an artistic photograph.</p>

<p>Bear with me. Look at the reactions above in this thread to see what I mean. Pretend that each opinion above was instead given about a piece of photographic art. Do we take down a photograph because it is too controversial, disturbing, thought provoking, interactive, gripping, raw, or at times, interesting, beautiful, compelling, do we take down those types of photographs because they hurt the 'bottom line'?</p>