New changes

MichaelChang · July 18, 2013

Fair enough, Glenn. Will give it a test drive and see how it goes.

pnital · July 18, 2013

Glenn,when I entered PN before the changes , there was a list of the members I follow them, it was good as I could look and decide if I want to comment or not , the change that shows me old photos that I saw before is much less efficient .

Let alone that I don't know who has uploaded new photos.Remember that we don't have all day only for PN...

If you want cooperation it is better that you will listen to what is important to most of us,and especially members that have experience and can help PN to be a better site..

That will save you the glitches as well.

Try to change what is important like ...the POW that was a good community connect , and takes a long time to show, while the POD is limping! with very few participants.

So there is two ways : one that you will pay attention to what is important to membres , the second is to upload changes as facts.,and maybe loose the more experienced, and good photgraphers.

alfbailey · July 18, 2013

The following is a copy and paste response I made to Grayham Allotts thread "Do we need this" <a title="http://www.photo.net/site-help-forum/00bmST" href="/site-help-forum/00bmST">http://www.photo.net/site-help-forum/00bmST</a> regarding the changes made to our workspace: -

It would seem to me that changes have been made to our home pages, and not for the better. I really don't know if any consultation with members took place, before these changes were thrust upon us, but in a nutshell, I'm at a loss to find what has actually been achieved, and equally frustrated at the incoveniece of multiple "clicking" to find out information that was previously available at a glance. There are now a number of drop down boxes that have to be "clicked" to get previously available information, I've done more clicking in the last couple of days than a flamenco dancer with a ferret down his trousers! By the same token, we now also have thrust upon us, images not of our choosing, from "people you follow" appearing on our home pages The drop down boxes are as follows: - "Subscriber Services" : - I'm not entirely against this being behind a drop down box, I rarely use this information. "Personal Information" : - I use this quite frequently to copy and paste links etc, so another click to find the appropriate information is a pain! "Photographers you Follow": - .......This is the killer! ..........The one that really peeves me. This box appears to be open all the time on our home page and consequently I now have images that I have NOT chosen to view being thrust upon me. I am quite capable of choosing for myself the images I wish to view, or make comment about, and I resent the fact that I am now being drip fed material not of my own choosing. The previous list of "photographers that you are interested in" was quite sufficient for me to follow the people of interest I had chosen, and without examples of thier work being thrust in my face! "Your forum posts" again inconvenient clicking for frequent forum users, unless of course they also choose "notify me of comments" "Photo Critiques" .....now this was information that I used all the time previously available on the home page. Now to keep tabs on critiques and responses to comments I have to go through another clicking ritual every time I return to my hom epage!........Frustrating to say the least! "Photo ratings" Not of any particular interest to me, but for people that like to keep tages on ratings again it presents an inconvenience. "Favourite Images" .........Ironic......whilst the images I chose as "Favourites" were once available to view in a selective strip of thumbnails at the bottom of the page, these are now only available after doing yet more clicking, whilst unsolicted images from "people you follow" have now been thrust upon me! If I was to assume that all the drop down boxes were introduced to speed up the loading of the home page, then I would also assume that the (unwanted) images from "people you follow" and the time to upload must surely conteract this? One other valid point that was brought to my attention.......If I have commented previously on the work of any photographer that photographs nudes, then I may be well have unsolicited nude images appearing on my home page at times where I could be for instance, be showing my grandchildren my work. I am all for changes for the better........but I don't see any advantages in these current changes and I do see a whole lot of inconvenience and frustration! If I am using my home page wrong, and I can customise it to suit my preferences then I would be obliged if someone.....anyone ......would advise accordingly. And to answer Grayhams original question No! we don't need this, and really don't want it either!

I don't think that all of the points I have raised have been met with a satisfactory answer. The collapsable sections do not default to whatever you had open in the last session and no matter what I do, I can't get rid of the very annoying "people you follow" images appearing on my workspace page. I suppose the only solution is going to be to delete all the people I do follow BY CHOICE and revert to written list of my own! As for a "clean workspace" I suppose we could just have a blank screen and rely soley on PN to drip feed us images to comment on, in order that we don't have think for ourselves at all!

AmyHelmick · July 18, 2013

Well, I would like to add that what I like about the Photographers You Follow section is that one can easily see the new work of those folks. Before, you had to click on the name to go to their gallery page. From there it was difficult to find their new postings: you had to peruse all of their folders. I truly had often wished that it would be easier to locate the new stuff. That's what prompted me to start this thread.

Adding the ability to have that section open or closed depending on personal preference is a good thing, though.

Reading this thread has shown some perspective that I had not considered. All in all, dialog is good and how changes get made.

dianedh · July 18, 2013

My collapsible sections still do not stay open - I even logged off and shut down. I use IE so now what?

I'd also like to suggest that the new photo section of photographers you follow be in a separate section. As others have already said, I want to make the decision of whose site I visit and when. Making it a separate section that could remain collapsed would also eliminate the 'nude' issue for those that see it as a problem.

jim_j2 · July 18, 2013

"I suppose the only solution is going to be to delete all the people I do follow BY CHOICE"

</blockquote>

Seems to be the advice being given in the thread titled "Drop downs not staying open" here;

<a href="/site-help-forum/00bpll">http://www.photo.net/site-help-forum/00bpll</a>

I'm still not having any luck with the drop downs staying as I left them either. But, I'm traveling so, other than my "Smart Phone" the computer(s) I'm using are not my "home machine" so I'm doing a lot of "toggling" these days!

gordonjb · July 18, 2013

I suppose the only solution is going to be to delete all the people I do follow BY CHOICE and revert to written list of my own!

</blockquote>

I did just that several days ago after receiving no response to my question on the subject and it did solved one of the more glaring annoyances. I no long am subjected to a bunch of images which I had made no request to view while i am clicking away trying to access the information on my home page which I do want to see.

John Peri · July 19, 2013

Since the subject has been raised, I must admit to also disliking the naysayers who promote negativity that sometimes borders on hostility, and I commend PN on the effort they are making to weed out bad feelings on this site which I often felt was neglected in the past. We are not at war here, we are members of a community that wants to fraternize and discover how best to do it. We are offered the distinct possibility to look at what we want and to mix with whom we please, just as we are free to disregard the rest. Eat the icing by all means if you want, but leave the other parts for the people that enjoy them.

Moreover, there is no such thing as good or bad photographers as mentioned further up , there are those we like or not and, thankfully, our tastes are not shared by all. PN appears to be working on how to maximize the process of selection for us, but you will never please them all and ultimately they will have to make a choice. This renewed effort at an ongoing dialogue on PN is a good thing, thank you.

Pierre Dumas · July 19, 2013

"MISTAKES" APPEAR AGAIN! I NOW FOUND TWO MEMBERS WHICH ARE VERY HIGH ON THE LIST FOR MOST FOLLOWED FOR ALL TIME WHICH WERE NOT PRESENT AT ALL ON THE LIST OF THE 400 (399 IN FACT) MOST INTERESTING MEMBERS FROM JULY 2, 2013! I REMIND YOU THAT NONE HAS MORE THAN 12 NEW FOLLOWERS IN THE PAST 90 DAYS NOW IT'S TIME FOR US TO THINK OF ABUSE, THEREFORE I'M AT FIRST REPORTING THE CASE HERE! SUCH CASES IN THE PAST I REPORTED TO THE ADMINISTRATION AND THE PROBLEM(S) WERE BEING FIXED, BUT, SINCE MY LAST INPUT THERE HAS NO REPLY TO THE DATE I DECIDED TO TELL IT HERE! PDE

carashilaire · July 19, 2013

Amy - your comment explained exactly why we added this feature. We're glad you started this thread and allowed another place for people to express thoughts as we work out the final details.

"Well, I would like to add that what I like about the Photographers You Follow section is that one can easily see the new work of those folks. Before, you had to click on the name to go to their gallery page. From there it was difficult to find their new postings: you had to peruse all of their folders. I truly had often wished that it would be easier to locate the new stuff. That's what prompted me to start this thread."

</blockquote>

It was a common frustration among members that it was hard to tell what photographs were new from those followed. There are definitely some of you that don't care for the feature and that is fair. We want to make sure you can minimize that section if you don't care to see new photo uploads by those you follow. We are also working to make sure that nudes show up if you want them, and don't if you don't as well. That will take a bit more time - it is a larger categorization project. So, on that note - can you have a look at the drop downs again? We've made a tweak that should hopefully work. Also, keep in mind that it is driven by cookies, so you can't close it in IE, open it in Chrome and expect it to be the same. The cookies are in each browser.

G-P · July 19, 2013

@Pierre, People on the list are is comprised of photographers that are active on the site. IF for some reason they take a break from photo.net for more than 90 days they will not be recommended - because they are not considered active. However, if they took that break of more than 90 days but then log back in on say for example day 91+ - they go back into active status and then will be on the list. Therefore referencing what occurred on July 2nd will do you no good in your research for abuse - the list is dynamic based on active users. There is no abuse I assure you. PS. I think you left your caps lock button on.

Pierre Dumas · July 19, 2013

Glenn, you are either less informed than most of us debating on these pages or it is Cara who misinformed us all!

Cara said: ..."All time" is now same as it was before, with the exception that any photographer on that list that isn't active/hasn't logged in during the last 90 days isn't on there anymore.

According to the quoted above , they couldn't be missing on July 2 due to their long absence because it is allegedly one of the new features!?

You both better decide whose information we should take in consideration as reliable and let me know, please!

PDE

G-P · July 19, 2013

Please send us the two names you recorded on July 2nd and we'll compare them to current list to see if there is any abuse. But as long as we're addressing things that need fixing...let me be very clear - your tone is extremely negative. I believe I speak for the entire staff at photo.net in that - we are only trying to add a feature that we believe will help the site. Time will tell if it does or not. What would help the site more than any feature we ever add is people recognizing their tone and negativity before they hit send and addressing it appropriately. Cara and I drafted this yesterday - and it applies here as well.

Year to date, we had over 14,000 new registrations and almost 2,000 subscribers, so let's all make sure those new folks have a good experience here together. It is largely up to each and every one of you to create a positive environment for photo.net to grow and flourish. While we all are passionate about photo.net and come to work each day with the goal of making it a better place for photographers to be inspired by one another and learn from one another…we know that the power of community is really what drives it forward and makes it a special place. That starts by each and every one of you taking care of it – making the right choices every day in how you engage, act and react, to make it the place we all want it to be.

gordonjb · July 19, 2013

On a positive note, it turns out that deleting my followed list was a good thing. The list was out of date, with many of the photographers on the list no longer active. Once the bugs get worked out of the new look, I can start a fresh list and my new list will contain more relevant names.

philrichardson · July 19, 2013

I made a post in the blog on this topic and I will repeat it here since I don't have a response yet and this seems more active. The customizing feature for the workspace page is not working for me. I just checked it again. I use only IE 10 and always use the same computer. Is the feature only available on certain browsers and/or versions? I have enabled the photo.net cookie on my browser, but do not allow third party cookies. The customizing feature is very important to me because I want to see some of the information I used to get at a glance on the page and now I have to hunt for it.

jimadams · July 19, 2013

Photo.net continues to circle the drain in an ever-decreasing circle. I just discovered I have 1106 "Followers"...like some sort of cult leader. And as someone else mentioned here, some of these folks aren't even alive any more, and some haven't posted a photograph to p.net in years, much less even looked at the site lately. Photo.net is trying too hard to remain relevant in the Internet world of photography, but it's failing miserably. Evidence the still unfulfilled promise to bring back the POTW. It's a good thing I haven't been holding my breath waiting on that...I have an aversion to turning blue in the face.

gordonjb · July 19, 2013

Followers does have some creepy connotations now that you mention it.

The last time a guy with the name Jim was a cult leader, it didn't end well.

dianedh · July 19, 2013

OK - I keep trying.... I just changed my privacy settings from MED to LOW (which accepts more cookies), logged off, shut down, booted up again and logged on to PN. My collapsible sections STILL do not stay open. Any ideas on what else I can try?

gungajim · July 20, 2013

Pierre has provided a huge amount of outstanding content free to PN over the years. He has a right to be grumpy every now and then. The photos that members post (and, in a sense, pay to post them) are a significant part of the reason that the site gets traffic. PN needs to nurture their members and solicit their ideas for site enhancements, not bang their heads!

Pierre Dumas · July 20, 2013

Dear Glenn,

I didn't accuse anyone for anything, didn't use offensive words, didn't even mention names of the members who appeared where they were not to be according to my information, didn't teach lessons anyone. Just noted that there was a certain contradiction with what you last said about the matter and Cara's words in the sentence from her previous input I quoted and asked for final, mutually differentiated answer!

When assumed abuse I didn't refer to the members of the staff, far from it! We all hear all the time about breaking codes and penetrating Internet stuff with presumed highest level of discretion and protection! And since I spotted one big error of the same kind which was fixed after I reported it I thought it happened again in lower degree!

Now, you're warning me of being extremely negative and telling me general information about the site without mentioning the subject of dispute! So, I had to search for answer myself checking the 400 names on several pages! And I found it! I won't say what I found for I'm afraid of your further reactions! Which doesn't mean that I found proof of abuse or error in the system, on the contrary, everything is OK!

The names I reported to the administrator, but, it doesn't matter anymore!

I consider this matter closed for I don't need no answer!

Sorry for the tone, I'm not exactly a diplomat and tried my best

pnital · July 20, 2013

Glenn and Cara,

I think that members on that thread voiced their disatisfaction of the changes done in "my workspace". There are two ways to see it by you: one is as a negative way.. and the other is learning as new admins what members think of the changes and not see it as an anti/negative against you.

It will not take any respect from you to understand that the older way was better and more efficient /convenient for us,and by going back to the older page, will add a lot to the respect members will feel toward you , as listening to our points of view and needs, as members that likes PN and wants the site , a better place to be.

John Peri · July 20, 2013

This reminds me of strikers with an agenda that take to the streets to manifest their discontent. More often than not, the silent majority that does not agree says nothing. No one’s view is representative of all, and few members have expressed an opinion here.

Personally, I am quite satisfied with the direction taken and commend the effort made, some fine tuning still being needed as discussed already, particularly in the area of filtering. Should PN decide to look at all this further, then a larger survey should be undertaken in my opinion, but I do not claim to speak for all.

gordonjb · July 20, 2013

John, when you felt that you had a grievance you appeared to be quite comfortable voicing that grievance here at quite some length. Once your grievance was address you label all other peoples issues as the voices of "naysayers" I suppose that given your comment on unions I should not be surprised.

pnital · July 20, 2013

John This sentence was the best in your comment !..... .....but I do not claim to speak for all....

John Peri · July 20, 2013

Indeed yes Gordon, though not exactly a grievance, I agreed with the origin of this thread by Pierre and highlighted what I believed to be a discrepancy, following up with a personal "vote" which leaves room for others to give an opinion and vote too. Moreover, I did it politely. No I do not Pnina, whereas you in fact do appear to do so. My opinion is that not enough people have "voiced their disatisfaction of the changes done in my workspace", as you say, and that more members be asked to give their opinion through a survey. That is the very contrary to attempting to speak for all. These are precisely the kind of gratuitous, negatively toned remarks which I hope that PN will succeed on doing away with.

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