Selling event photo's online successfully?

[john_e2]

<p>I recently took photo's at a dance recital. I used my 1dx and got great shots from the balcony. the owner liked the pictures so much she's already booked me for the next recital. Several weeks before the recital I took pictures in her studio with a background and studio lights. I did well selling those pictures, however, the action shots from the recital were placed on smugmug. While I got many compliments on the shots only 1 parent bought 2 5x7's online. The rest stole the pictures and put them on their face book page. I purchased the pro level on smug mug and the pictures were right click protected and My logo was placed directly across each photo. They either did a screen grab or took cell pics of their screen. this is the first time I've tried selling online. Is this typical? Is online selling really a bust? I was planning to unveil online sales this school year with my sports photography but if this is typical of online selling, I'd be doing a lot of work for nothing.<br>

Any ideas, please. </p>

[William Michael]

<p>I do some work for a Sporting Photography Company. They strive to sell at the venue, on the day.<br /> Some of this work finds itself on Facebook, even from the prints sold on site.</p>

<p>For my Portrait Work, I don't sell 'on line' but I provide a password protected gallery to some clients.</p>

<p><a href="/beginner-photography-questions-forum/00bpGT">You might want to read this thread here</a>: but I think that you will find many people who steal images to simply put on their facebook page or their screen saver, don't even care about the watermark.</p>

<p>I think that how typical this will be, will depend upon the type of general customer base your product is addressing and the type of product.</p>

<p>WW</p>

[Robin Smith]

<p>I'd say this is absolutely typical. I take dance pics too and the studio just puts them up on their website and Facebook page without asking and often not giving credit. I used not to mind, but it is beginning to irritate me, so I don't take all the shots I used to. I am not looking to make any money, but there is absolutely no quid pro quo and that begins to grate. For example, they expect the shots, but don't even reserve me a good seat to take the shots they like (I am not expecting them to pay for the seats either). No doubt they wonder why they have not got all the shots from me any more, but I am sure they will just get someone else's instead. If was in the business of making money, I would tell them straight out and then they would know - I think it doesn't really occur to them. However, I don't think it would make a lot of difference as they would just takes someone else's (often terrible) shots. That's the way it it is. It is also my experience that a vanishingly small number of people actually print things out any more so I am not surprised you don't get many takers for physical prints. For most people, if they have it accessible on Facebook that is good enough for them. I would say: don't expect riches from online selling!</p>

[shoppix]

<p>Not a new problem and there are hundreds of threads on the web about people 'stealing' images! <br>

At least you had them watermarked. You should put a statement on you Smugmug webpage ...it is unlawful to copy or reproduce my photos in any way, etc.... If you discover some online, email them to please remove them as the was not purchase from (your Photo Biz) and it i against US Copyright Law.<br>

Explain this to the owner of the dance studio also so that understands your policy in case some of the parents ask her something about it. You are a bz just like her and she likely does not give away dance lessons.<br>

Put a line item price for web res images on your pricing page. <br>

Most of the kids just want to upload to facebook type sites and do not care about prints. <br>

the other thing is 'printing on site'. I have photog friend in PA who shoots mainly volleyball and prints on site. You need someone to operate computer, get images onto a couple of monitors for selection, collect $$$ and print. There are usually a few games going on at one time so he has one or two other shooters working too and still makes a profit!<br>

I have suggested to him to produce some large prints, photo books and sports posters kind of things for show & tell at the printing location for add on sales. anything that cannot be produced at the games. I think he only prints 4x6's...maybe 5x7's but not sure. and, his assistant for showing, everything that is on the card! No editing, no deleting etc! And they, the parents, have bought some lousy sports pics!<br>

I personally would hire someone with some editing experience to do a quick run though for deletions, and straightening etc. Just a few very basic editing steps. If they want something better, take their money, try to sell a larger print, edit at home and have it printed.</p>

[Marc453]

<p>I have stop putting images online because people would steal them and not pay. I even went to one family's house and the had an enlargement of one of my photos complete with watermark framed and hung on the wall! They told me, "we never pay for anything we can get for free off the web." Later, this same family called to ask if I would shoot a wedding for them and they wanted a discount because I had already had photographed their son playing football. I gave them a 10 percent family and friends discount, and they said that wasn't enough. I told them to think about it, but I wouldn't change the price as June was a popular month for weddings. a few days later I got a sure commitment for that date. Called the family and told them that they had the first refusal for that wedding date. First they accused me of trying to trick them into committing to the sale. Then they asked if I was coming to the wedding as a friend, couldn't I just bring my camera and take a few photos.<br>

Sorry for my rant.<br>

I have yet figured out a way to present photos on the web that cannot be stolen or encourage sales from sporting events after the event. If you do please post it here.</p>

[joseph_nuzzo]

<p>I think that more likely you missed the sales window. There is emotion tied to an event like this. However, once it's over people tend to move on to the next thing in their life. You need to make the sale before the event takes place while emotion is still focused on the event itself.<br>

Do not photograph anyone that does not purchase a package and let your perspective clients know this. This will help you have less post processing work and you can concentrate on getting more shots of only those that want them. <br>

Your sales will increase.<br>

I have been in your shoes and I have been able to sell far more by adopting the strategies above for event photography.<br>

Good luck.</p>

[john_e2]

<p>Thanks for the comments. photographers in my area don't try to sell online anymore because no one buys and they're so easy to just steal. This group of parent's I thought would be perfect try online sales, because this was a high end dance school with parents with money. most of the parent's spent a couple hundred dollars each on their the portrait shots. <br>

I won't be selling online anymore. I wonder if it works for any other photographers out there?</p>

[daverhaas]

<p>John - </p>

<p>I used to do a lot of sports / event (dance) type shooting, but got out of it a couple of years ago because I realized that I could make more $ by doing weddings, etc... and have a lot less down time. Plus a lot fewer clicks on my gear! </p>

<p>But what I found is that for events - sports, etc... is that the further away from the event you are, the less likely you are to get sales. The best days we had at events (multi day) were always without fail - the last day. In person, on site sales were 100% better than on-line ever where. I keep an on-line sales presence for my wedding / portrait business - since some prefer to order through me as opposed to standing at a photo kiosk. </p>

<p>Again, in general, parents forget to order online, lose the website or password, or just plan get busy. Tons of reasons for not going back to the site and ordering on-line. The further out from the event the worse it is. </p>

<p>Plus with windows 7 and up the "snipping tool" is a standard accessory. It makes it super easy to copy a screen or part of one - and makes it difficult to protect anything. I've even had seniors submit photos to their yearbooks using it. </p>

<p>In person - you have some challenges - especially at a dance event - since typically there is not in/out access to the performance - people tend to go in all at once and come out all at once (either intermission or the end of the event). So you will need to staff and have equipment to accommodate a rush. One photographer who still does events has 10 viewing stations set up. (laptops hooked to a server) At most I had 4. The other thing you have to watch for (and this happened to me, and I just saw it happen to another vendor) is people at the viewing stations taking iPhone photos of your images on the viewing stations. When it happened to me - I told the young lady to please stop it - and that if she wanted an image to purchase it. She ran off, got her mother and I got chewed out for being rude. I explained to her that I am doing this as a business and that what her daughter did was basically theft, akin to shoplifting. The mother said if I was worried about 1 image then I was in the wrong business. (you just can't win sometimes.)</p>

<p>Best advice - do in person ordering, price high ($20.00 for a 4x6, and up) and staff appropriately. </p>

<p>dave</p>

 

[etphoto]

<p>You'd think we technology the way it is some smart dude would develop code that could be put into an image that would delete itself if copied. He'd make millions.</p>

[gary_leonard3]

<p>I saw a poster once that said, "it is immoral to let suckers keep their money." When I saw it I thought of New York City. Alas, the whole world now has the Big City attitude about stealing creative work/images. They think it is their right to steal your/my images. I have stopped putting anything worthwhile on the Internet. I don't count $50 bills on dimly lit street corners in the middle of the night, either. Seems to be the same thing these days.<br>

We photographers have to think up a way to get our rights back but I will not hold my breath.</p>

[etphoto]

<p>The people I have discussed it with around my little corner of the world don't consider it stealing. They seem really surprised when I use terms like "theft". After I explain it to them they say stuff like, "yeah, but ..."</p>