Feeling so (Un)Lucky SHD 100 ?

[dodi_heru]

<p>Is it just me, or some of you share my own experience too? Please reply ...</p>

<p>I using 135 mm BW film (36 frames, ASA 100) today, expired in May 2012, but since i buying it, its been storage in refrigerator. When i want to use it, i waiting for 2 hours first, then i start shooting.</p>

<p>My camera ? just standart Yashica Electro 35 GSN / Ricoh 500 GX , all mechanics dan metering (except Ricoh) are in working conditions, all cameras has no light leaks.</p>

<p>For the chemical, im using this:<br /> Micro MF (similiar with Kodak D76) diluted 1:1 <br /> Stopbath using vinegar ( 25% diluted with 1 liter of water)<br /> Fixer, im using Acifix (1:1)<br /> Wet Agent (liquid soap for baby), 2 drops for 400 mL air<br /> all done in room temperature (27 degree Celcius) and all chemicals are fresh.</p>

<p>Other support equipments:<br /> AP Tank w/ plastic reel, changing bag, scissor, thermometer (for liquid) , timer and water jacket</p>

<p>The steps:<br />1. 1st agitation (tap water): 15 seconds.</p>

<p>2. Developer (400 mL) 6 minutes.<br /> * 1st agitation: 1 minute<br />* Next agitations: 10 seconds after 50 seconds stay in water jacket</p>

<p>3. Stopbath (400 mL) 1 minute.<br />* Agitation for 1 minute.</p>

<p>4. Then i washed with tap water (400 mL) dor 15 seconds, for 5 times.</p>

<p>5. Fixer (400 mL) 10 minutes. <br />* 1st agitation : 1 minute.<br />* Next agitations : 10 seconds after 50 seconds stay in water jacket (same steps like no.2 except the time to agitate)</p>

<p>6. Washing again with tap water, for 15 seconds (with agitation), repeat for 10 times. I always change water each times.</p>

<p>7. Last: using wet agent.</p>

<p>Here's the funny thing : All the negatives was BLANK! hahaha ... Looks like, im not Lucky 100 at all ...<br /> Perhaps, one of you can help me to feel lucky again?</p>

<p>Many Thanks for all of your reply.<br /> Dodi</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>Hmm. usual culprits</p>

<ul>

<li>film not going through the camera (misloaded)</li>

<li>fixed before developing? (easier than you might think)</li>

</ul>

<p>I can't imagine that the film had gone bad. I've used many films that were more than 20 years out of date and they came out "fine" (one does have to lower ones standards a little).</p>

[dodi_heru]

<p>JDM : </p>

<p>none of it happens to my camera or chemicals.</p>

<p>My camera are totally fine, already done many rolls (color films) before and come out with great result. no light leaks, mechanical works good and CLA-ing regulary. And for the chemicals, i immediately labeling the container once i already mixing the chemical with water. I only open it one by one (chemical boxes), so definitely not cause by wrong chemical orders</p>

<p>Cheers,<br>

Dodi</p>

 

[dodi_heru]

<p>Anyway, am my steps are just fine? or perhaps, need some better steps?</p>

<p>Cheers,<br>

Dodi</p>

[andylynn]

<p>Well something's off. Did you try a second roll?</p>

<p>Does the developed film have edge markings? (Anybody know if Lucky 100 is supposed to have edge marking?) The edge markings are applied at the factory and develop with the film - if they're missing, it means a problem with the development (messing up the order of the chemicals or something like that). If they're there, but there are no images in the frames, it means the film didn't get exposed.</p>

[dodi_heru]

<p>Andy L :<br>

Yes, i am. come out blank too ... just like a blank plastic rolls.<br>

do you mean edge marking like in Fujifilm / Kodak near the hole to rolling the films? </p>

<p>Cheers,<br>

Dodi</p>

[profhlynnjones]

<p>I've been doing this for over 6 decades, I always take film directly from the refrigerator to the camera without warming and in my part of the country we have high humidity. Except for IR film, I let film thaw out for awhile before loading it, however as a former medical and scientific photographer I would load frozen Infra Red film directly from the freezer to the film holder.<br>

Lynn </p>

[dodi_heru]

<p>Andy L: update: Lucky do have edge markings (just got the information in other forums).</p>

<p>Lynn : Thanks a lot for the infos. Do you use Lucky 100? It's kinda "interesting" film, since i get nothing come out at all after developing ... *it hurts</p>

[pc_b]

<p>Your negs are the text book example of the classical 'fixer-before-developer' mistake. Either your developer was completely dead, or it was your needlessly complex development procedure that helped you in messing it up.</p>

<p>I suggest you just drop steps 1 and 3. Do half as many cycles in steps 4 and 6 while doubling the times. If you use rapid fixer cut the fixing time in half but agitate every 30s for 5s.</p>

<p>In my book, Lucky 100 is not worth bothering. Technically speaking it is easily the worst 100 ASA film around plus it has no 'personality' to speak of.</p>

 

[Mike Gammill]

<p>I think 6 minutes 1:1 (if this developer is a D-76 clone) is a bit short but you should have still gotten an image. FWIW, here is the link to this film and developing recommendations on the Massive Development chart: <a href="http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php?Film=SHD&Developer=&mdc=Search">http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php?Film=SHD&Developer=&mdc=Search</a></p>

<p>While there are better choices out there than Lucky 100, if it's all you have or all that's available in your area, then you can use the Massive Development chart times as a starting point. Also, most films today don't need the prewash. How about the pH of the water used to dilute the developer? D-76 type developers have to be alkaline for the developing agents to work. Maybe get a pH paper kit from a pool supply store and test your water or simply buy some distilled water to mix developer. This is because if the water is too acidic it can reduce the activity of your developer.<br>

Better luck with your next roll and be sure to report back and tell us how it "developed."</p>

[andylynn]

<p>For a film that has edge markings, almost any procedure that involves a developer as the first chemical followed at some point by a fixer, before bringing the film into the light, should result in at minimum seeing the edge markings. If there's no image at all, the problem isn't one of degrees, it's something that would cause complete failure. For example, the film maker's QC department failed so bad they shipped a batch that they'd forgotten to coat. That's pretty unlikely, so more likely scenarios involve a development problem, like mixing a batch of developer and getting the ratios off so the solution is 1% as strong as it should be, or mixing up the bottles of chemicals so that the developer doesn't come first. My suggestion, try some developer that's near impossible to do wrong, like HC-110 mixed right before you use it, and mix up new working solutions of the stop bath and fixer, double-checking the labels on the bottles.</p>

[dodi_heru]

<p>PC B:<br>

maybe, so the lens cap too. but i don't do it. So, i still dont know for truth, if Lucky 100 have edge markings or not. Maybe when i can succeed developing it, will tell you later.</p>

<p>Mike: <br>

Thanks for the link. Btw, in "35 mm" column, its say 12. Is that means, its 12 minutes for developing time? Is it still 1 minutes for 1st agitation? follow with how many agitations / minutes?<br /><br />There's also other options, but only Kodak films (Tri-X, T-Max, ColorPlus) and Fujifilms Superia 200 (color) that also popular. But, since, i was drop analog about 5 years or more, i cant remember anything about home B/W films developing. Therefore, Its better using cheap films at first, then moving to a better one like Kodak Tri-X.<br /><br />Of course, i will report back in here sir. But, i have to buy new developer and fixer first.<br>

Andy L : Thanks to bring that option. Thats can be another faulty in our options.</p>

<p>Cheers,<br>

Dodi</p>

[thirteenthumbs]

<p>When a developer, lets call it X, is said to be similar to another developer, lets call it Y, this means that the developed film/image results are very similar. Those characteristics are grain size, tonal range, sharpness to name a few. Only if the developer you are using says to use the times for another developer do you use another developers times.</p>

<p>In the link Mike provided your developer shows a 12 minute base time for Stock solution. There is no time listed for 1:1 dilution which usually requires a 25% to 50% increase in development time.<br>

You developed for 6 minutes which is 30% to 40% of the time needed to develop the film fully.</p>

<p>If the SHD 100 is a thin emulsion film like FomaPan films then it will require more exposure to get good shadow detail. Set your cameras meter to 50 or 64 for the next roll.</p>

<p>Hold the "blank" film in direct sunlight and turn it slowly at different angles to the light and you may see some very faint traces of images and edge markings.</p>

 

[JDMvW]

<blockquote>

<p>none of it happens to my camera or chemicals.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Well, then, it's all your imagination, apparently.</p>

[dodi_heru]

<p>okay, for all of you that maybe can help me back to analog once again, i hereby write down the text from the box of developer, fixer and film :<br>

<br /> Film (Lucky SHD 100):<br /> "... This film should be processed in total darkness. The recommended developing soncitions are : Developer D-76, continously stir for 10 seconds at 20 Celcius. Intermit 1 minute. Then Develop 5 minutes.<br /> Other appropriate developing times:<br /> Temperature (celcius degree) comparing with Time (C/T):<br /> 15 / 8' 30"<br /> 16 / 7' 40"<br /> 17/ 6' 55"<br /> 18 / 6' 10"<br /> 19 / 5' 35"<br /> 20 / 5'<br /> 21 / 4' 30"<br /> 22 / 4'<br /> 23 / 3' 40"<br /> 24 / 3' 20"<br /> 25 / 3'<br /> Recommeded fixing conditions : F-5, fix 5 minutes at 20 Celcius.</p>

<p>Using D-76, a sensitization development effect can also be achieved by extending developing time at 20 celsius. This film can also be processed to be a postitive image after reversal process. "</p>

<p>Developer :<br /> " 500 cc at 40 Celcius, mix the powder. Finally, add cold water to make up to 1 liter of solution. The developer is ready for use when cooled to 20 Celsius.<br /> Developing time at 20 Celcius :<br /> Tank Development : 10 - 15'<br /> Tray Development : 8 - 12'. "</p>

<p>Fixer:<br /> " Pour the contents about 750 cc at 32 Celcius of warm water. Add cold water to make up 1 liter solution. Negatives will fix in about 5 - 6 minutes and positives in 4 minutes'</p>

<p>By any means, please help me in here.</p>

<p>Cheers,<br /> Dodi</p>

[dodi_heru]

<p>Add 1.<br>

The first roll, im using 20 degrees. The second : 27 degrees. The other process are still the same.</p>

<p>Cheers,<br>

Dodi</p>

[thirteenthumbs]

<p>You are not using D76, disregard those times.<br>

Take a roll of unexposed film and pull out 8 to 10 cm of film (3 to 4 inches).<br>

Cut off a 4 cm (1 1/2 inch) piece and put it in a container of fixer. It should turn clear in 1 to 3 minutes if the fixer is good. Fix for double the time it takes the film to turn clear.<br>

Cut off another 4 cm ( 1 1/2 inch) piece and put it in a container of your developer. It should turn black after a few minutes. If it does not the developer is bad.</p>

[richard_wick]

<p>Take it easy on yourself..it happens. Try this...get some Kodak Tri-X..the real thing, get some Kodak D-76...the real stuff, and some Kodak stop bath..really cheap.. and a real fixer, like Ilford Rapid Fix, or a Kodak equal. Then make absolutly sure your film is being wound in your camera...and easier mistake to make then you would think. I have been developing and printing B&W for 40 years, and still, occasionally make mistakes like that...</p>

[dodi_heru]

<p>Charles : done it.<br>

Im using the very old films (Shanghai ERA 100, about 20 years old film), cut it same size like you said. and the result:<br>

Film in developer --> turns black.<br>

Film in fixer --> turns clear.</p>

<p>maybe, perhaps, i have wrong time using the fixer ?</p>

<p>Cheers,<br>

Dodi</p>

[dodi_heru]

<p>same result when using Lucky films too. </p>

[Mike Gammill]

<p>If film clears, the fixer is fine. If the time was insufficient, the film would be cloudy rather than clear. Referring to the chart, the 12 minutes for stock Micro MF developer is only a starting point. I would just try it stock and forget about diluting it for now. </p>

[pc_b]

<p>... then the leader would be have been exposed at least.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>There's also other options, but only Kodak films (Tri-X, T-Max, ColorPlus)...</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Hell, you could get Tmax100 and waste your time on Lucky?<br /> It's clear by now: you dearly need a good book on the basics. And read it, with a dictionnary at hand.<br /> Wildly guessing and experimenting by tweaking parameters that make no real difference regarding your problem (temperature, for example) is just a waste of time and money.</p>

[walter_degroot]

<p>as said early, You are trying to be precise and very careful.<br>

and making things TOO complicated<br>

the film should develop with less care.,<br>

as the others have said, it likely id a development problem as there are FaINT? Or no edge markings.</p>

<p>One reason they suggest Hc-110 that is is very economical<br>

and the SYRUP lasts for years.<br>

However the " kodak way" is not good<br>

http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/<br>

go to this page ( i think he has a d-76 page)<br>

and mix developers directly from a small amout of the syrup/.<br>

I can get syringes ( like a doctor uses)<br>

but there are small plastic cylinders used to measure cough syrup for children.<br>

You may be able to get them.<br>

sometimes there are syringes with an ink jet printer refill kit.<br>

But any developer and any film should give you some kind of an image.<br>

D-76 is more or less UNIVERSAL so is hc-110.</p>

<p>pleas post a new thread when you get it figured out.</p>

[thirteenthumbs]

<p>OK then either the film was processed with the chemicals out of sequence, the camera is malfunctioning, or the developing time was too short to produce any trace of an image.</p>

<p>Equipment warranties do not state that the piece of equipment <strong>will</strong> work but what the company will do if it does not. Same applies to out of warranty equipment. There is no guarantee that the camera that worked perfectly 5 minutes ago will now. There is no guarantee that it will not either. Assume nothing. Test thoroughly. Batteries are the most likely failure point as they will show good on a camera's built in battery test but not be strong enough to operate the camera.</p>

[dodi_heru]

<p>All, thanks for the comments and reply. Some of you are really helpful to make me a better photographer.</p>

<p>Well, since im already dump all my chemicals, i will buy new chemicals. Im agree, that a camera, can be wrong every-time or anytime . I will check it out that too today. Perhaps, something wrongs can came out from my camera too, and miss from my sight. Thanks for the reminder Charles.</p>

<p>I don't developing films for a years (perhaps, about 10 years). Maybe, some of you, still remember it. Some are not, just like me. Developing films requires techniques / skills. Like many other specialist and i have respect to all of you and the techniques that you learn and have been share in here.</p>

<p>Since this is my "new but old coming back", my hands are stiff and my memories dont serve me good in this area, so i will using cheap films to sharpening back my skills, after that, will use it Kodak Tri X or T Max, or any better films ... just like before.</p>

<p>FYI, from where i live now, 1 roll of Kodak BW films (Tri X / T Max), can give me 8 - 10 rolls of Lucky 100 films. Local chemicals (developer / fixer) ? about 1/5 or 1/4 the price of Kodak chemicals.</p>

<p>After, i already memorize everything back that i need to know , sooner or later i will back with better films and chemicals :D :D :D. Like, who doesn't want to have better things in their lives , right? I just take a single step for each move right now.</p>

<p>Since it's my reason for using cheap film, i think its still reasonable to answer it.</p>

<p>Thanks a lot for all the tips, inputs, critiques and sarcastic comments in here. All just good as i read.</p>

<p>Cheers,<br /> Dodi</p>

<p>Cheers,<br /> Dodi</p>