Ilford Delta pro 100 processing

[kris-bochenek]

<p>Hello again, few weeks ago I posted a question about processing BW film on my own. I bought Ilfosol 3 Ilford rapid fix and ilford stop bath.<br /> I ran a roll of 35 mm ilford delta 100 based on the info from ilford website. I "cooked" the film for 6 minutes stop bath for 30 seconds and fix for 3 minutes washed it with water same temperature for 10 minutes and let it dry. I ran with it to walgreens to get it scanned and I got quite grainy shots.<br /> is it because?<br /> 1 My developer was slightly over 68F maybe 71 and I still cooked it for same amount of time as required for 68F could over "cooking" cause grain?<br /> 2 could it be caused by scanning (I don't think so)</p>

<p>This is my first roll so I am proud nevertheless.<br /> Thank you for your time</p><div></div>

[john_shriver]

<p>The grain is because mini-lab scanners are optimized for doing one thing well -- scanning C-41 color negative film quickly.<br>

They just aren't designed to scan true B&W film at all.<br>

Yes, you did over-develop the film some. You should use the time/temperature charts Ilford provides to correct the time if the temperature isn't 68 degrees F. Or, put the developer in a stainless steel beaker, and set it in cold water (or ice water) to get it down to 68F.<br>

That you over-developed it gave the minilab scanner more trouble. C-41 color negative film is never very dense, where the dark areas in over-developed B&W film can be very dense indeed. Dense areas are what bother scanners the most.<br>

I think you should be really proud that you got what are clearly very usable negatives.<br>

Time to start thinking about buying your own film scanner.</p>

<p> </p>

[larrydressler]

<p>I have never used that developer but I have used the film. Unless you scanned or printed them yourself and yes that amount in temp would have pushed your film almost 2 stops to 400. You cant judge it unless you finish the process yourself by printing or scanning.<br>

Many people will tell you a few degrees do not matter but I have to say I know that the company that made the film and developer tested it to the max before and even gives an adjustment chart for C and F in times.<br>

Believe me you may get some great things from those negatives if yoy scan or print them yourself but allowing others to do it for you is a crap shoot. and get that Temp chart if you can't keep it for 10 minutes at the proper standard temp.</p>

<p> Larry</p>

<p> </p>

[john_cogburn]

<p>What John and Larry said-- you want to minimize your variables in order to get consistent results. Keeping temperature constant is one easy way to do that. </p>

<p>On the subject of film scanning-- a real film scanner is expensive, but one alternative is a flatbed scanner than scans film. I use an old Epson Perfection 3200. Later Epson scanners are similar, like 4170, 4900, etc. Some of the older models including the 3200 work with XP, but not with Windows 7. I found tips online on how to use the 3200 with Windows 7 by editing a few lines of code in the 4170's driver software. </p>

<p>On my scanner, results with 35mm are OK, but 120 size negatives make very nice scans. So, with my $70 second-hand scanner and my $15 late 1950s TLR, I can have lots of fun... limitied only by artistic ability :) </p>

[larrydressler]

<p>I use an Epson V700 but I don't want this to become a what is better scanner thread as I use 16mm-4x5 and it was the only scanner that could do that. the story is the grain is most likely a combo of you over developing and using a person to scan it who just set it on auto.</p>

[john_cogburn]

<p>Sorry, Larry!</p>

<p>I just wanted to pass on a few tips on the general subject of getting nice digital images from black and white film. I guess it's kind of hard sometimes to keep the sub-topics separate from each other. And bringing vintage medium format cameras into it (two more discussion categories) just complicates it even further!</p>

<p>I scan 16mm on my Epson when I use my Minolta 16 II. I tried laying the strips on the glass, but got better results with a scanning frame I made. What's your method?</p>

[larrydressler]

<p>Same as you a home made frame. And why get sorry? I just wanted to not let this turn into another scanner better thread to keep the OP in the loop and not go way off ..<br>

<br />Larry</p>

[thirteenthumbs]

<p>Over development from too high a development temperature 40% or there about for cause of excess grain.<br>

Scanning at a mini lab 60% or the remainder of the cause not attributable to over developing.</p>

<p><a href="http://plustek.com/?country=US">http://plustek.com/?country=US</a> Pulstek OpticFilm series 35mm film scanners are quite good and reasonable cost. Worth a look if you decide to do your own scanning.</p>

[larrydressler]

<p>O lord this has become a scanner thread.... Next will be software to go with them... :-)</p>

[tklim]

<p>Hi, Kris,<br>

If I might venture a reply... try to avoid overdevelopment like a plague. Not only does it affect your film's visible graininess in an unfavourable manner, either in scanning or in printing, but it also causes severe deterioration of other image qualities, such as sharpness and resolution (your lens definition may appear inferior) and tonal range (it may ruin the smooth gradation obtained with proper processing). Gross overdevelopment is a notorious 'highlights killer' making it difficult or sometimes impossible to render the details visible in the areas of the highest tonal values (white clothing, clouds etc.).<br>

Congratulations on your first film are due nonetheless :)<br>

Regards, Tomasz</p>

[thirteenthumbs]

<blockquote>

<p>O lord this has become a scanner thread.... Next will be software to go with them... :-)</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Naaaaaaaaaaaaa :D</p>

<p>When you finish that Ifosol 3 off try Xtol 1:1 to 1:3 with rotary processing-absolutely beautiful.</p>

<p>HC110 and rotary processing extremely good. Either with inversion processing- very good.<br>

If you need tips on how to maintain the temperature during processing tell us your conditions and we'll give you some tips such as make a tempering bath, have some ice on hand, or chill the chemicals beforehand. I've done all these as needed depending on what and where I was processing.</p>

<p>If you don't expose the film correctly scanner software won't make up for it. If you don't process the film correctly scanner software won't compensate for it. If you get it close then you can manipulate the error into an acceptable image with editing software just as you can manipulate the image if doing traditional printing.</p>

[christer_almqvist2]

<p>Kris:</p>

<p>First things first: This is a very nice shot!</p>

<p>I moved away from Delta 100 because of too much grain in the cloudless areas when I was shooting seascapes. Otherwise I think your combo is fine, very fine.</p>

<p>The main thing is to determine the correct development time and exposure index for your special situation. Why? Your thermometer may be off by a couple of degrees, your agitation may be more violent than used at the lab that determined the "official" development times. The times may be for mixed light enlargers, which are longer than for condensor enlargers - and scanners.</p>

[kris-bochenek]

<p>I use my bathroom as a darkroom, size is 6x12. I keep my chemicals in my condo storage unit where they sit in dark and the temps do not go above 75F. My ambient temp in my bathroom is around 72-76F in summer and around 72F in Winter. I used a platic bin filled with water stuck my thermometer in it and waited around 5 minutes it showed around 72F I put in some cold water and put in my chemicals already mixed in plastic beakers but since I was rushing I didn't wait for the temp to drop to 68 and started "cooking" my film for 6 minutes (stress and excitment got into me) What I am thinking I will do next time is to actually measure each chemical to see what the liquid temp is (there has to be some difference between water bath and the liquid in the beakers). Off I go to buy me some good theremometers and I will take my time next time I play a film wizard in my "laboratory".</p>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>Ditto the suggestions to give a little less development for negatives intended for scanning. Regardless of the type of scanner, it'll give better results. Scanners are very good at picking up thin shadow detail in underexposed negatives, but not so good at coping with overdeveloped highlights.</p>

[john_cogburn]

<p>It's good to be careful, of course. And it is worth checking the temp. of the developer carefully, and keeping it as constant as possible during development.</p>

<p>But you may find that you don't even need to check the temp. of the stop or fix, unless they feel unusually warm. I have heard of reticulation, but never seen it happen. I mean, you can feel it if they are warm enough to cause problems. If the fix is cooler, then you'll want to fix a bit longer. If it's warmer, then it gets fixed slightly faster. I have developed film year-round in south Texas, Taiwan and northern Sweden, and never had a problem in that regard.</p>

[thirteenthumbs]

<p>You only need one good photo thermometer, rinse it between chemicals. Regular household thermometers are not very good for photo work. Dial type photo thermometers are easy to read and accurate until you drop one then the reading is off by a few degrees.</p>

<p>Developer should be kept within 1⁰F of desired processing temperature; stop, fix, wash can be within 2⁰F of developing temperature without problems. Total temperature spread from coldest to warmest should not exceed 5⁰F.</p>

[christer_almqvist2]

<p>I'm with Charles Monday. "stop, fix, wash can be within 2⁰F of developing temperature without problems." </p>

<p>But I would say: you will have no problem as long as stop, fix and wash are within 6°F of developer temperature.</p>

<p>I'm with John Cogburn. "I have heard of reticulation, but never seen it happen."</p>

[larrydressler]

<p>The only film I could get to reticulation on was EFKE 100. I did it on purpose.</p>

[Komatsu]

<p>Hi Kris,<br>

I've processed quite a bit of Delta 100 and I like it because of the lack of grain. I go by the book though, I process it at the correct time according to the temperature and I always have my developer (D-76) at 68 degress. I scan the negatives with a V700 and I am quite happy with the results.</p>

[mjferron]

<p>Shorter development times for scanning please. I cut 2 minutes (Dump at 8:30 min) off recommended times using Tri-x/D76 1-1 and get great results.</p>

[richardsperry]

Can you post a 100% size section of the photo please?

[andrew_kleinfeld]

<p>Your negatives will probably print very nicely in a darkroom. It's just awfully hard (impossible, in my experience) to get good prints from scanned black and white negatives, if your idea of "good" is what you can do in a darkroom. I use darkroom printing for black and white, scanning and digital printing for color.</p>

[larrydressler]

<p>One of the best developers I ever found for Delta 100 was Rodinal 1-100 full and semi stand. I know it sounds crazy but it works.</p>

[kris-bochenek]

<p>Sorry my computer is at the repair for "disorganized hard drive" I will post a 100% crop as soon as I get it back. I do plan on having my BW printed in a dark room one day, that is when I have enough space to set it up.</p>

[cj8281]

<p>You can do a temporary darkroom in a bathroom, I did that for 2 years before we got a place that was ours and put in a permanent one. Very nice to have a permanent one though.</p>