johnny_mustard Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 <p>Hi i have my first "real" photoshoot tomorrow with a pro model<br> my shot list only contains black and whites but i was thinking why not shoot color just in case. So the question is shooting b&w a way for purists to feel special or is there a real advantage? I have a feeling that stripping color even if you do it right will never look as good but not sure.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAPster Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 <p>Think of B&W photography as a 'medium', not as an 'advantage'.<br> Think of Color Photography as a 'medium', not as an 'advantage'.</p> <p>As 'mediums', they are both photography, yet they have different characteristics, both when the image is recorded and when the print is made. And they do look different in the viewing impression.</p> <p>Both mediums have their masters and their fans.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_ Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 <p>Black-and-white film, with the right filter on your lens...will give your outstanding results. If you use a digital SLR camera, and are fast at switching modes, you can get black-and-white, along with color as needed. With film, you would need two camera bodies, one for color and one for black-and-white.</p> <p>You do not mention if you will be processing your own film, or if you have a lab that can handle black-and-white film.</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny_mustard Posted January 20, 2010 Author Share Posted January 20, 2010 <p>Alan and Jerry, thanks! But that's not what i'm asking.<br> Alan, thank you for that but you still haven't answered my question. I agree both mediums are great but can you tell the difference between something that was shoot on b&w film and something that was shot on color film and desaturated properly in photoshop? I tried googling this and surprisingly i can't get an answer on this.<br> Jerry, I own 12 cameras including a canon D40 dslr which i rarely use. I've done tests and find that the latitude is much smaller than of 35mm. I mostly use my Nikon f2 35mm camera and my hasselblad 500c that takes 120 film. I use one of the best labs in LA they can do b&w, push, pull, etc.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy jackson Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 <p>I don't think B&W from color film is any where near as nice as B&W from B&W film. Use the D40 and shoot in color. That's the only way to get both in good quality. JJ</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny_mustard Posted January 20, 2010 Author Share Posted January 20, 2010 <p>Jeremy i was very excited when i read the first part and thought I found the answer. Then I read the second half which made me doubt your expertise. I do not believe my D40 is superior to my hasse or nikon or any camera with a good lens that takes film.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andylynn Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 <p>The tone curve doesn't come out the same. You can do it, but it takes work - many people are under the mistaken impression that making B&W from color is simply a matter of changing in Photoshop from RGB to Grayscale, or they think that if they turn down the saturation instead they are doing something fancy. But really, doing a good color to B&W is very difficult. If you don't already have a lot of confidence in your ability to do it right, and this being your first "real" shoot (and it sounds like a paid assignment) I'd stick to the parameters given and shoot your favorite B&W film.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny_mustard Posted January 20, 2010 Author Share Posted January 20, 2010 <p>Andrew, thank you for that. You are so right. Film it is.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrydressler Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 <p>And you will be processing it yourself correct?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny_mustard Posted January 20, 2010 Author Share Posted January 20, 2010 <p>No, i wish. One day. Icon lab in Los Angeles for now.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrydressler Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 <p>Oh well I will hold my tongue.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 <p>Panchromatic monochrome films (silver halide b&w negative films and C-41 process monochrome films) record colors to shades of gray in a way that many, if not most, viewers will interpret as "correct" based on having viewed many b&w photos over the years. It is possible to attain a comparable tonal range by converting color to b&w - and do so in a way that would fool most observers - but not without a skilled photo editor.</p> <p>Long answer short: Yes, a conventional b&w negative film or C-41 process monochrome film like Ilford XP2 Super or Kodak T400CN will deliver the type of look you expect with minimal hassles.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny_mustard Posted January 20, 2010 Author Share Posted January 20, 2010 <p>Thanks Larry and Lex, i like this forum, people know what they are talking about.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy jackson Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 <p>Johnny please. I did not say the D40 was better than your Hassy. For goodness sake. I figured out B&W film to B&W was better than color film to B&W in my second year as a photographer. I was worried about your expertise when you asked the question in the first place. I actually thought that someone that owns that much stuff that doesn't know the answer to that question can't possibly know much about photography. I'm out. JJ</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny_mustard Posted January 20, 2010 Author Share Posted January 20, 2010 <p>Jeremy, sorry i just realized that what i said was a bit offensive, didn't meat to offend you. Yes i'm one of those guys who gets excited over gear so i'm forcing myself to shoot more and collect less. Thanks for your post i probably misread it.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy jackson Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 <p>OK Johnny, slight over-reaction on my part. We're cool. JJ</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike51664877339 Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 <p>I like the Hue/saturation method described down on this page. Given a color file, it lets you "dial in" a filter of any color, providing density in combinations that would not be possible (or would be very difficult) without a color original and without software. But still, without doing experiments, when I want black and white, I prefer to shoot with a fine camera with B & W film in it.<br> I just did a portrait session where I wanted both color and B & W, and I shot two Kodak Portra 160 rolls and a Fuji Neopan Arcos 100 (developed in Diafine).<br> http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/techniques/color-black-white.htm</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve m smith Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 <p>I would use the Hasselblad for black and white and the F2 for colour.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterbcarter Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 <p>I am surprised, with all the responses, that no one has really stated the most important difference. Colour and BW files are physically completely different and processed completely different. That is where the advantage/disadvantage (depending what you want to achieve) comes to the forefront. It can be the third most dramatic end of the process, first being your mind and second being the camera.</p> <p>Colour images are created with dyes and is a completely calibrated process. Generally not much room for post manipulation with developing. Most manipulation has to be done in the printing / scanning - ps end.</p> <p>BW images have a multitude of different emulsions having all their own quirks on curves, dynamic range, grain, etc.. There is a multitude of developers and processes and in turn produce a multitude of effects / looks. This is all before the print / scan stage is even considered.</p> <p>I shoot mostly BW film because if I did colour / digi, there would be so much I cannot do before I scan / print. My preference in order of work is Mind,Camera, Developing, Scan, Edit, Print. The more I do in early stage, the more predictable the result. I rarely have to do any rocket-science in PS.</p> <p>Back at your question. If you shot in Colour, with the intention of the result in monochrome, I would think your options would be vastly reduced. It's all about the options.</p> <p>When I want to shoot, I think of how I will develop the neg before the shutter clicks. I am not a photographer that sticks to just one developer or process. I get closer to being able to imagine my real result, which is always my goal. I may actually choose shooting coulor (and converting it) if the will take me to my end. I like to know I chose the best way to get there.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrydressler Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 <p>Peter I held my tongue you said what I did not.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny_mustard Posted January 26, 2010 Author Share Posted January 26, 2010 <p>Steve, very curious why Hasse for b&w and f2 for color?!<br> Peter thank you for that. Just checked out your personal page. Didn't see a lot of black and whites but liked your beautiful images. Michael, i just got back my scans and believe that i can now see a difference between b&w film and color/digi, at least with my limited ps skills. If anyone is curious i've uploaded this project at <a href="johnnyroc.tumblr.com">http://johnnyroc.tumblr.com</a> Not sure if it's appropriate to post my work like that. If anyone feels like guessing which ones were shot with the Hasselblad and which ones were shot with the Nikon f2 feel free.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterbcarter Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 <blockquote> <p>Peter thank you for that. Just checked out your personal page. Didn't see a lot of black and whites but liked your beautiful images.</p> </blockquote> <p>You are welcome, and thank you for point that out. I have not posted any new images in a couple of years. Forgot all about that one. ;)</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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