D76 Shelf Life Question - I know... another one

[gnashings]

<p>Hi,<br>

I feel silly for asking, but I think I'm just being CHEAP:) And I think I just need to hear it (or rather read it), to realize it. Perhaps cheap is the wrong word - its not about not wanting to spend the few bucks on new stuff, but rather loathing the notion of pouring the old stuff out...<br>

I have 2L of D76, two 500ml and one 1L bottle, mixed Jan 17/2008 (yes over a year ago). They have never been opened since mixing, they were filled to the brim, squeezed until the liquid started spilling over and then capped shut TIGHTLY. The containers are clear plastic drinking water bottles (the kind you get in cases of 24 at the supermarket, soft, clear, "squishy" plastic). They were always stored in a cool dark basement, I doubt they ever exceeded 20 deg C.<br>

I should pour it out, right? It just seems so wasteful... SAVEME FROM MYSELF! :)<br>

Peter.</p>

[bgelfand]

<p>You should test it. Develop a short strip of film. If it looks good, use it; if not, dump it.</p>

[Vlad Soare]

<p>Has it become slightly yellowish, or is it still perfectly colorless? A yellow tint means it's gone. But if it's totally clear then it's worth a try (on a test strip first, of course).</p>

 

[gnashings]

<p>Its clear as water... I think maybe I should give it a try... tempted to... :)</p>

[frank.schifano]

<p>If you don't mind sacrificing a roll of film, by all means test it. ln order to tell if it truly performs as expected, you'll need to develop some images. Simply testing that it will darken a piece of exposed film doesn't give enouhgh information. It could be almost dead and still darken a piece of film, but will not have enough potency to deliver the contrast index or film speed you expect. I say chuck it. Enough D-76 powder to make a gallon of stock solution sells for what, $7? How much does a roll of film cost? Anywhere from $2 to $4 or maybe more. The cost of the developer you're holding almost equals the cost of a fresh roll of film. Seems like a no brainer to me.</p>

[jason_hall5]

<p>If its still that clear, I certainly would give it a shot with a test strip. I used some old stuff a while back to develop a test roll to check for light leaks in a "new" camera. It was pretty yellow at the time so I used it stock strength and added nearly a minute to the time. results were OK, but better than expected. Now the D-76 that still remains (nearly a year old and I have no idea why I still have it), is pretty much black in color. I guess I just want to see just how dark it can get.</p>

<p>If removing all the air as you did will keep D-76 for a full year....I will be impressed indeed. Please post sample shoots from your testing.</p>

<p> Jason</p>

[jpo3136b]

<p>I think you should dump it and remix; or, at least table it for experiments instead of using it on good subjects.</p>

<p>You don't have to sacrifice a whole roll of film to test it. One exposed frame will do. It takes about a 4" strip of film. Most of that will be for holding it in the camera.</p>

<p>If you are super-cheap, you can take a 1" strip of scrap photo paper, and try to see if the thing will even develop a scrap of a print. At ph 9, D-76 will make a very soft, almost unusable print, but if the neg was high-contrast, you would see an image; it'd show if the solution would support a reaction. All-in-all, though, I've probably lost more to "iffy" chemistry, especially homemade, than to anything else.</p>

<p>Of course, then, you have to sing, "Super-cheap" to Rick James' <em>Superfreak.</em> "Super cheap! Super cheap! I'm super cheap! Test strippin', yeah! Oh, oh-oh-oh-woah-woah. Super cheap! Super cheap!" Keep that up until the image develops, or the film fogs over.</p>

<p>Memories of that alone ought to discourage these fallow periods in your photography.</p>

<p>Reload, and keep on shooting. It is easy to shoot a couple of rolls every two weeks and develop them. You don't need to have to wait around a long time. Even if you are not super-interested, you can make some snapshots or whatever. Probably whatever else is going on instead; I bet that'd be a great subject for some photos.</p>

[gnashings]

<p>I'll just shoot off a couple sheets of 4x5, soup 'em and see- nice big sheets, should be easy to see if they are contrasty etc. :) Now I'm kind of curious.</p>

[mikeseb]

<p>The stuff is what, four bucks a metric ton? Toss it, buy some more, move on. Life's too short for this kind of agonizing over trivial stuff.</p>

<p>:)</p>

[nathancraver]

<p>D76 is really cheap, and one of my favorites. One thing is, some types of plastic bottles still breathe. Glass and metal are impervious to oxygen. But, one of the dead giveaways for oxidized developer is turning amber in color. If it is still clear, it is probably still good. As to whether it is still good for normal development times is up to testing to determine. I'd shoot a good, but not critical roll of film (it is not worth the expense of a roll of film to shoot crap images in case it works fine) and see what happens.</p>

[gnashings]

<p>Yes, I know this stuff is cheap, and no, I'm not "agonizing" over it - I just wanted to see what folks had to say in a tongue in cheek fashion. And even though I have plenty of powder, I don't want to waste the stuff I already mixed... true - but its not really a monetary issue.<br>

I shot two sheets of Tri-X in 4x5, at box speed (just pointed it at a window in my house, lots of contrasty things and other not so contrasty in the frame, etc). I added 1 minute to the digitaltruth times. I was a little closer to 21 than 20 deg C but decided who cares, close enough:), in stock D76 (I usually use it at 1+1, but here decided a) I want to use it up, b) if it is going, its probably best not to dilute it any further)<br>

I got two, perfect negs, with a full tonal range, lost of details in the highlights, and amazing detail in the shadows (I measured using an slr off my wife's grey shirt using a standard centre weighted meter). Yey.<br>

I will print a contact and scan and post (just don't expect art:))</p>

[jason_hall5]

<p>Excellent....look forward to seeing it. I figured it would be good...still being clear and all.</p>

<p>Jason</p>

<p> </p>

[bob_sunley]

<p>Well as an ongoing test of an old bottle of D-76, I just processed 4 sheets of Arista film in some that was mixed in Feb 08 and the stock solution is still water white clear and the negatives look just fine. Looks like 2 litre soft drink bottles work well for long term storage. :-) We'll see how well they print tonight.</p>

<p> </p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>The shelf life using a non gas tight container like a "2 liter coke bottle" varies with its volume. If one has brim full 3, 2, 1, and 1/2 litre full D76 or coke; the biggest bottle lasts longer. It has the least SURFACE AREA to VOLUME. The 1/2 litre bottle has the most surface area to volume.</p>

[bill_taylor2]

<p>I have stored D-76 long term for years. My tips are<br>

1. Use real glass bottles. I mix 1 gal at a time and store it on gallon jugs with good screw caps. Plastic breathes and oxygen will get in eventually. Some plastic is better than others, but glass is literally 100 times better.<br>

2. For partially filled bottles, flush the headspace with "canned air". That could be Dust-Off (or equivalent), or dry nitrogen gas if you have it. You want to displace any oxygen/air that has got into the bottle. Do this as soon as absolutely possible after you pour some developer out, then tightly cap the bottle again. I will sometimes invert the canned air a bit so some of the propellant liquid expands into the headspace. This assures any air/oxygen will be pushed out.<br>

3. When you mix the developer, use boiled and cooled de-ionized water, and do your best not to splash. Boiling drives the oxygen out of the water. De-ionized is purer for longer shelf life. Minimal splashing keeps air out of the developer when mixing and stirring. If you can, flush the bottle with canned air before you mix, so the fresh developer never really touches real air.<br>

4. Don't expect used developer to last any length of time. Or to put it another way, don't reuse developer. I use dilute developement, so that each batch is fresh developer. The dilution water should be boiled and cooled de-ionized water too, but it doesn't really matter that much. Tap is OK (since you'll be throwing it out in a few minutes anyway).<br>

5. Check the color as it comes out of the bottle. Fresh D-76 should be clear with no tint. If it is cloudy or tinted (yellow), you've got problems. If it is like apple juice, it is long gone.<br>

Using this method I've used developer over a year old with great results. Once a partially filled bottle was over 18 months and was only just showing a hint of color.</p>

 

[carl_neilson]

<p>A bit off-tangent to the original poster's question I know, but just to round out the subject of D-76 shelf life I thought I'd add a recent experience of mine. A couple of weeks ago I mixed and used a packet of D-76 with an expiry date of May 2008. Even though the still-sealed-in-its-original-packaging powder was a year past its use-by date the results were still perfectly fine.</p>

[Vlad Soare]

<p>Carl, the powder in its original packaging should keep indefinitely. The clock starts ticking when you dissolve it in water. ;-)<br>

No wonder it worked fine. I would have been very surprised and disappointed if it hadn't.</p>

[carl_neilson]

<p>Thanks Vlad; that's good to know. It means I can bulk buy the packets when convenient and not worry too much about how long it takes me to work my way through them. It does make me wonder why the printed use-by date doesn't reflect the true use-by date though. Perhaps they maximise sales from people replacing unused "expired" developer...</p>