25% failure rate with 5DMk2's in Antarctica

[ellis_vener_photography]

<p>Sorry I just realized that the OPer had this link in the OP!</p>

[nathancraver]

<p>I think that unless you are planning to take a 5DMkII into similar situations, I wouldn't worry about it. With my D700, I worry more about the lenses than the camera, only because I haven't spent eleventeen hundred dollars for the super nice glass which is weather sealed (but I am about to get a 17-35mm). If you are that concerned about adverse weather conditions, I do recommend the D700 very highly, but only if you do not have a substantial investment in Canon glass, otherwise I would stick with Canon. Besides, if it craps out on you, that's what warranties are for...</p>

[steven_f1]

<p>Based on the comments from the owner of the two failed cameras a battery grip was not used and the failure occured about 1.5 hours into a 2 hour landing on an island. There was a light rain. They were apparently using Kata rain covers. </p>

<p>I am guessing that they weren't too careful with the covers and rain got to the camera. Both apparently had water in the shutter switch based on the description of the problem (automatic picture taking). Perhaps they put their wet finger directly on the shutter rather than keep the rain cover between the finger and buttom. It would appear that the shutter switch is somewhat vulnerable to water. Additionally keep in mind electricity will accelerate corrosion. Whenever water gets into a camera turn it off and remove the battery quickly to limit the damage.</p>

<p>Canon should look into this. I am not saying it is a design flaw but it should be reviewed carefully to determine if it is a design flaw, assembly error, or user error of a new product. </p>

<p>As to the other failures, the cracked LCD on a 1D is a classic example of rapid temperature change. The loose screw in the camera mount is a little unusual. Both probably would not cost a lot to repair. These are probably not a major issue. The Nikon lens that fell apart sounds very strange. I would like to see more information on that failure.</p>

[philip_wilson]

<p>Interesting post - the fact that one had a cracked LCD is more about the user than the brand. All the LCDs on top of camera have the same construction - there is nothing special about Canon here which suggests abuse arther than the glass deciding to "spontaneously crack" at around 0C. You will know from your house windows that glass does not spontaneously crack at around freezing - it needs to be hit with something. In terms of the other six failures - hard to say but I assume that there are a lot of 5DIIs in the west of the UK weher it never stops raining. I cannot comment on the rain proofing of the 5DII but mine has worked fine repeatedly in temperatures of -25C being outside for several hours at a time (my kids Ski race!)</p>

[stephen_asprey2]

<p>I just got back from the city, and one of Canon's major dealers. They are talking about it too. Their interpretation of the Warranty Conditions are that if the camera fails after being exposed to extremes of temperatures then the warranty is voidable at their discretion.<br>

The 0-40C relates to the range of temperatures permitted for recharging the battery.<br>

On examination of the operating manual that comes with the camera, page 12 lists the caveats under Handling Precautions - Camera Care. There are enough there to get Canon off the hook, and they specifically mention internal corrosion risk and risk of water damage.<br>

So you guys are experiencing -20C in your winter and we down in OZ are getting +45C in our summer, then Canon have a problem, at least with the battery rechanging, anyway. The dealer said that they would ask Canon for an official position, but quote "Don't hold your breath waiting".<br>

I'm getting the D700.</p>

[danielleetaylor]

<p><em>I'm getting the D700.</em></p>

<p>Just be sure to read the manual pages that give the same exact operating specs as the Canon (434) as well as a warning to keep the camera dry (398).</p>

<p>On a broader note, I think it's time for someone to create a suite of standard tests and ratings for SLRs when it comes to water and weather resistance, and for the manufacturers to use the standard. There's no question regarding the water resistance of an Olympus Stylus Tough P&S because Olympus subjects the camera to standard tests, probably the same ones used to evaluate other equipment like watches. No one actually knows how any of these "sealed" DSLRs compare, so anecdotes substitute for reality.</p>

[stephen_asprey2]

<p>Yeah, Daniel.<br>

To claim impartiality here: The best focussing system I ever came across was on a Canon EOS 50E with the eye control. It always worked a treat for me...but some people had trouble. The "nicest" camera I ever used was a Nikon FE2 with a Beattie screen...it was a jewel. The safest for war zones was the F4S because if you ran out of bullets you could use it for a weapon, it was so solid.<br>

I am enjoying a D300 for tricky stuff and a G7 as a point and shoot. I'll probably get the D700. Then I'm set for the foreseeable future.</p>

[pascalharvey.com]

<p>If you already have a Nikon, then your choice is quite easy to make... But then, i'm wondering why this post? I hope it's not another " my father is better than yours" thing...</p>

[don_tabuse]

<p>Concerning other reference about extensive usage of the Canon EOS 5D and its good performance despite being a prosumer only camera, since November 2005 I have shot more than 120.000 photos in 5 continents.<br>

Desert, jungle, waterfalls, snow, sailing, crowds, weddings....... . Nothing has ever stopped me. By the way I' belong to those of goes around with a single body. Twice a year I clean the sensor, that's all.<br>

I think the Antarctica story needs to be assessed. Probably Canon should ask serial number and owner's names to determine what the reason of the problem was, if a problem really took place at -3 celsius! May be too much alcohol was on board, and it may have caused side effects on photographers.</p>

<p>All the best to all.</p>

 

[des adams]

<p>Surely this is not a fight beween Canon and Nikon, that's simply a distraction to take the pressure off one or the other. Rather it's a case of letting Canon know we can see how cynical they have been in marketing the 5D2. Other than the size of it's sensor it's altogether 2nd rate. (As Bob Atkins cheerfully reports in his review they need something to offer in the mark 3). It is though more complex than that and the fact remains making the 5D2 into a first rate camera would have cost Canon peanuts and generated much needed goodwill. </p>

[sattler123]

<p>I agree with Al Durer. We can try to argue this failure rate as much as we want and analyze it to death, the sad fact remains that a high rate of 5D MK2s failed during this trip. I refuse to accept the easy answres - user failures - does that mean that Nikon users are smarter than Canon users - hey I am a Canon user - so that couldn't be it:-))</p>

<p>Canon better wake up and do something about this. It is not clear at all how much weather sealing (if any) there really is on these new 5Ds. I do believe that this report will drive quite a few folks to Nikon - after all, it is not the first time this happened.</p>

[djkuty]

<p>I am very familiar with electronic reliability. Having very well sealed elctronics is essential to long term reliability, whether it is a camera, calculator, or watch.<br>

I recommend that everyone buy well sealed cameras.</p>

[danielleetaylor]

<p><em>I refuse to accept the easy answres - user failures - does that mean that Nikon users are smarter than Canon users - hey I am a Canon user - so that couldn't be it:-))</em></p>

<p>There are no answers, easy or otherwise, without knowing the full details, including use prior to Antarctica and care taken while in Antarctica.</p>

<p><em>It is not clear at all how much weather sealing (if any) there really is on these new 5Ds.</em></p>

<p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/eos5dm2/03.html#03" target="_blank">http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/eos5dm2/03.html#03</a></p>

<p>While I'm firmly in the "we don't know enough to draw any conclusions" camp, I will say this: Canon should just weather seal every button and seam on every body. That can't cost much and is probably worth the marketing and good will.</p>

<p>But on Reichmann's last trip he complained about 1D class failures. So either Canon really does have shoddy sealing (which doesn't mesh with the many reports of bodies surviving much worse), or Canon users really aren't as smart (the cracked LCD has me wondering), or it's just numbers and luck and next year the Nikon bodies will have more failures.</p>

<p><em>I do believe that this report will drive quite a few folks to Nikon</em></p>

<p>A Nikon lens fell to pieces. It's going to drive people to Sony ;-)</p>

[des adams]

<p>No one has to go to Antartica ... go to your local camera shop and test the AF on the 5D2 and 40D.</p>

[ralph_jensen]

<p><em>"Go to your local camera shop and test the AF on the 5D2 and 40D."</em></p>

<p>I did that, and I must say, they both work great! I don't know what all of the griping is about AF by others, because I have no complaints at all.</p>

<p>Thanks for the suggestion, Al!</p>

<p><em>"Other than the size of it's sensor the 5DII is altogether second-rate." </em></p>

<p>Well, sensor + 1080p video + price compared to Canon's and Nikon's other 20mp-plus cameras =<br /> one of the most sought-after newly introduced cameras ever.</p>

<p>I'm guessing Nikon wishes they could match the 5DII's 21mp and video for the same price! I'll be first in line if they do....</p>

[desmond_kidman]

<p>I would only shoot in salt spray conditions with a camera that I could afford to lose. This has to be one of the fastest tracks to failure than one could encounter in shooting. Although I do not envision myself shooting in salt spray conditions I limited myself to considering only fully weather-sealed bodies when I jumped into DSLRs. If I could only afford the 1D series I would have gotten that instead of the Ds. I am comletely intolerant of failure.</p>

<p>If I brought my 1Ds on the expedition mentioned and it failed I don't think I'd be condemning Canon, though I would have taken note of the brands without failure.</p>

<p>Statistics would dictate a larger sampling and more scientific test. However, that does not mean that all non-statistically valid information should always be thrown out or completely ignored. Based on the numbers quoted, I might think twice about a 5DII if I expected to be shooting in these conditions. If you add up all of the non-5dII cameras and look at the failure rate of 5DII vs non-5DII cameras the sample size is not that bad. For <em>my purposes</em> I would guess that there just might be a vulnerability to <em>these conditions</em> in the 5DII that might not be present in the other cameras that did not fail. </p>

[14mm 2.8l]

<p>So, Nikon gear is better weathersealed than Canon. You may not know this, but So is Olympus & Pentax better weather sealed too. If you need to shoot in a wet enviroment then buy the best tool for that job.</p>

<p>I live in a semi arid dersert climate. I don't need weather sealing most of the time.</p>

<p>I don't get the idea one must own one brand of imaging equiptment to be brand loyal. I own Canon 5D, Nikon D700 & Pentax K20D. It would be great if the feature I like most could be offered by one manufacturer, but they aren't.</p>

<p>I have zero regrets adding D700 3 weeks ago to my Canon & Pentax tools. Nice to know Nikon's consumer grade full frame can be used in the rain and cold. I didn't buy it for that, instead to propely use the 14-24mm 2.8. I imagine all better dslrs will come with video option since they all will be equipted with live view. I still think better sealing on a $2700 dslr is more desireable. Heck my $689 Pentax K20D has the weatherseals, can't be that expensive to design in?</p>

<p>I noticed on Utube people are now shooting video with the D700 even though its not spec'd to do so.</p>

<p><a href="http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2009/01/how-to-shoot-vi.html">http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2009/01/how-to-shoot-vi.html</a></p>

<p>Its an easy guess ther upcoming D700 upgrade: D800 will shoot quality HD video. The D400 upgrade of D300 is spec'd to include 1080 HD video. In a year maybe less HD video will be on everyones spec sheets. But I still think weatherseals that allow you camera to function are more essential on these expensive cameras. Especially since Canon said water damge is not rountinely covered, but this time they'd repair it for the guy with two bad 5D Mark II</p>

[Ian Taylor]

<p>I had a 5D die after shooting a wedding in Mexico. Canon Canada said it was "dead" from water damage but refused to explain specifics. I dropped it off with Canon Thailand and they fixed it for $10. I think it's a much tougher camera than many give it credit for. I have 3 and work them very hard.</p>

[wayne_campbell]

<p>What about sweating? Is that covered in the warranty?</p>

[ilkka_nissila]

<p><em>I'm guessing Nikon wishes they could match the 5DII's 21mp and video for the same price!</em></p>

<p>I don't think it's a question of "can". Nikon just chose a different feature set for the D700. To someone like me, living in Finland where mean temperatures are sub-freezing for almost half of the year, the robust build, weather sealing, reliability in the cold are of very high importance. I am sure they'll eventually make a 24MP "D700X" but if it has the build and sealing, plus the autofocus of the D700 (which is the same as in the D3 and D3X) they sure won't price it the same as the 5D Mk II - why should they?</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>I have been to similar Antarctic cruises as well as Arctic cruises. I was in Antarctica in late November, early December. It is summer time down there and around the Antarctica Peninsula, it really isn't all that cold, at least not the area cruise ships visit. Typical temperature is merely around freezing. You have to be quite careless to expose your camera to the elements to cause so many problems.<br /><br />When I was there in 1998, I had my Nikon F5, F4 and N8008 with me. None of them had any problems. Well known wildlife photographer Art Wolfe happened to be on part of that same trip. He and quite a few other people had Canon cameras. I wasn't aware that anybody had any camera issues.<br /><br />I am surprised by the high number of 5D II bodies given that it is such a new camera. For that kind of wildlife/landscape trips, I would imagine that a lot of Canon users would have 1D/1Ds bodies as well as 40D, 50D cameras.</p>

[DB_Gallery]

<p>Ahhhh....the constant focus on what the "Internet-Photo-Gear-Review-Hero" is up to now, it just means so much to real photography.....you can tell by the level of idolization of them on the forums.<br /><br />Just sit back....close your eyes for a moment...that's right...focus your attention on a time when none of us knew or cared who Reichman, Rockwell, Rorslett, Resnick and other "Gear-Review" internet stars were...<br /><br />Take a jaunt back to when even though you could read about gear from Herbert Keppler, you chose instead to read about what Winogrand thought of his journey across the U.S. during the height of the cold war....and that was well before my time.<br /><br />Go back to a time when you could photograph someone or something and not have to hear "I don't want that on the internet"....<br /><br />Tune out of this gear laden ego show and go back to real photography, the kind that happens in the real world, not the "measure-beater" one on a 15 inch screen. <br /><br />Go back to a time and place not long ago when a photograph was called a photograph...not a "Nice Capture"...<br /> Get out and shoot your 5DII the way you normally would want to and try not to focus too much on what these people publish on the internet.<br /> You will in turn make better pictures that way, I assure you.</p>

<p> </p>

[des adams]

<p>Don't get waylaid by the people trying to talk about Nikon. They try to distract from the problem 5D2. Talk about the 5D2. It's second rate and Canon should be told so.<br>

I</p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>"Go to your local camera shop and test the AF on the 5D2 and 40D."</em><br>

I did that, and I must say, they both work great! I don't know what all of the griping is about AF by others, because I have no complaints at all.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>The complaint is that the 5D2 is a crippled camera. I have both cameras and the 40D is both faster and is less likely to hunt, simply more accurrate ... better. The 5d2 is a retrograde step. It still suffers from banding even with the firmware. And I'm not making a noise to score any points the 40D is a very good camera ... but it's DX. The 5D2 has FX but is an exercise in cheapness, not for the consummer but for the maker. A let down. <br>

http://bighugelabs.com/flickr/onblack.php?id=3255508508&bg=white&size=large</p>

 

[ralph_jensen]

<p>Al, sorry you got a bad copy of the 5DII; most other owners of the 5DII (including me) aren't saying the things you're saying about your copy. (And yes, I also have a 20D, 40D, 50D, and 1DsII and I disagree with your assessments of the 5DII such as "a letdown," "cheap," "second-rate," and so on.)</p>

<p>But if it's that bad, for heaven's sake sell it and buy a D700! You should be able to easily unload your 5DII for close to retail value if it's in good shape.</p>

[robert_clark]

<p>A quote from the article:<br>

"I don't know what conclusions should be drawn from this high percentage of 5D MKII failures. All I can do is report on the facts of the matter.<em><strong> As for the weather during which most of the failures happened, it was no worse than a drizzly day in winter in New York or Berlin. Nothing Antarctic about it at all.</strong> </em> "<br>

Interesting. Are people wandering around on drizzly days in New York or Berlin getting failures?<br>

If this does turn out to be a real fault, I'm wondering how Canon can get away with claiming that the 5DII is water resistant to 10mm in 3 mins.<br>

This is equal to 200mm/hr or 8 inches per hour. That' heavy, heavy rain. Something rated to that level of protection should not be failing in drizzle.<br>

How do these class action suits work?</p>