Beginning with B&W - Selecting Film & Chemicals

[cdzombak]

<p>I have a Nikon FE that I play with when I'm not using digital, and I might also soon get a Yashica Electro 35

with which I hope to try my hand at street photography.</p>

 

<p>I'd like to use black and white film for this most of the time, for a few reasons:</p>

<ul><li>Mainly, I like the look and style.</li>

<li>It's (relatively) easy and cheap to develop yourself - C-41 isn't, AFAIK</li></ul>

 

<p>After the film is developed, though, I will probably have it scanned and do most of my processing through the

digital workflow that I have set up.</p>

 

<p>I took a photo class in high school (about a year ago now), so I am not unfamiliar with using film and developing

it. However, since this is no longer a class where the teacher just provides chemicals, I have two questions:</p>

<ol><li>Which film should I use?</li>

<li>What developer should I use?</li>

<li>How is contrast controlled in the developing process? A lot of the time, I like to have high-contrast images,

but sometimes I do want lots of detail in the midtones or the shadows.</li>

<li>Is there a guide to different films somewhere online where I can read all this instead of bugging other

people to tell me?</li></ol>

 

<p>I have a few considerations, though:</p>

<ol><li>It has to scan well.</li>

<li>I think 400 speed will be ideal, although this is less important because slower films can be pushed

(right?).</li>

<li>I've heard lots of good things about Tri-X, but bad things about its scanning ability.</li></ol>

 

<p>I know these are a lot of questions, and I'll really appreciate anyone who takes time to help me! (Just wait

until I get interested in color print and slide film...)</p>

[randall ellis]

1) If you want to develop your own, any non c-41 process black and white film. I'd suggest FP4+ (125), HP5+ (400), or Tri-X (400), all of which are easy to use and produce great results with most developers. They are also generally tolerant of error, so your results will be usable much of the time while learning.

 

2) Start with something 'general': ID-11, D-76, or similar. Once you understand the process and know how to control it you can try something else if you know what you want to change. These work well with all films and are easy to use. Once you get a handle on them you can start looking at other developers - just try to understand why you are changing your process rather than jumping around without thought. Experimentation is great, but if you don't know what you are changing you won't be able to learn from the experience.

 

3) Check here: http://www.redisonellis.com/exposure.html It will explain how to control contrast using exposure and development.

 

4) While not the best, it's at least a start: http://www.gommamag.com/v3/download/GommaBlack&whiteFilms.pdf

 

Considerations

 

1) I have no experience with this other than cursory efforts, but I've never had problems scanning any of the films I listed above.

 

2) Yes, but results change when film is used at speeds other than what they are rated. It is best when starting out to stick with the box speed and make only minor adjustments until you understand what you are doing and what results these changes give. Otherwise you won't learn anything and won't be able to control the results. 400 speed is a good general film speed, but in bright situations it can be limiting, especially with older cameras. 100 speed films generally have less apparent grain, but this is not necessarily a good or bad thing, just a difference.

 

3) Can't help you there other than to say that this film has been around for a long time (with some minor alterations). It's a good starting point generally speaking.

 

- Randy

[cdzombak]

I notice that Freestyle has Arista-II branded Agfa APX400 on sale: <a href="http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?cat_id=&pid=1000003124">http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?cat_id=&pid=1000003124</a>. How does this film compare to other, more expensive films which are available?

[benjaminoliverhicks]

I just processed my first roll of film last night. I used 100 Tmax, HC-110 developer, Kodak Stop Bath, Ilford Rapid Fixer,

and Photo-flo wetting agent. It was very easy for me, and the negatives looked great. The only difficulty I had was

spooling the film, but, as long as you practice, you should be fine. I was using 120 film, though. I'm not sure if that is

easier or harder to handle.

[benjaminoliverhicks]

I would think any of the common developers and fixers would be fine.

[lex_jenkins]

Most traditional b&w films scan with exaggerated grain. The best I've found is T-Max 100. It requires some care but is a very good film. Be careful to avoid underexposure and overdevelopment.

 

If you're more comfortable with films like Tri-X, T-Max 400 or HP5+ (all of which are popular in school), expose them at around 200-320 and avoid overdevelopment. This will help minimize grain and excessive contrast. Most scanners work better with "thinner" negatives - not too much contrast.

 

Stick with the standard developers already recommended here: ID-11, D76 or HC-110. Avoid Rodinal and other acutance developers which will exaggerate grain for scanning.

[larrydressler]

I find that Traditional films for me don't scan with bad grain but Lwx has a different opinion and I will respect that. Only no traditional film I have used lately is TMZ and that is total grain.

 

I find that HC-110 is by far the easiest Developer to work with for most films you just use what yuy need as a 1 shot from the syrup. I prefer the un official Dilution H of twice the dilution of Dilution B and double the time as a starting point.

 

I use water for a stop bath and any rapid fixer I use a hardener with my Efke and ADOX films but the Foma films seem tougher than they used to be a few years ago.

 

Not enough can be said about washing I use filtered or Distilled water for a final soak with a real dilute Photo flo slution and hang to dry. I have had very few water spots this way.

 

Larry<div></div>

[ric_johnson1]

Don't forget Sprint chemicals (http://sprintsystems.com). Very good developers and fixers. A little bit cheaper, mixed 1+9 which means the chemicals last for quite awhile. The developer bottle includes a time/temp chart.

[cdzombak]

Thanks for the advice.

 

I'm thinking that if I do this (nothing definite yet), I'll start with Tri-X and D-76. I'll be careful, as Lex

said, to avoid overdevelopment, but I'll experiment with this and see what I like and what I don't like.

 

I'm thinking experimentation will be key here.

[james_ollinger]

I had really good luck with Tri-X at e.i. 200 and D-76 diluted 1:2. I had a Kodak development dial so I would use that to "pull" the speed down to 200. I thought it was very crisp and clean looking.

 

I also really liked HC110, which is in liquid form so it mixes up nicely. D-76 and the other powders always polluted the air no matter how carefully I poured, and always seemed to take forever to dissolve.

[james_par_]

Try Neopan 400 and develop it in Ilfotec DD-X: beautiful results.

[jim_appleyard]

Don't C-41 b/w films scan well? This could be an option for you. There are "b/w" films, chromogenics, that go to the lab and get souped in color chems, C-41, but give you a b/w image. You can have your local mini-lab process it for you. Should only cost $2.00 for dev only.

[robert lee]

Dig around on Ilford's site. They've got an excellent tutorial for B&W film development. It's concise, clear,

and well written. It showcases their films and chemicals, of course, but that's no bad thing.

 

HP-5 film and DD-X developer is a good, fool proof combination to start with.

[tim gray]

I've had very good luck with Tri-X and XTOL. XTOL is nice because it's easy to mix at room temperature. Just mix up

the 5 liters and split the solution into 16 oz bottles. When you go to develop, mix up the working solution 1:1, develop,

and pour the rest down the drain. I use water for stop and Ilford rapid fixer (its liquid) for fix. A little bit of photoflo for the

final wash and you're done.

 

Tri-X scans great for me. A good scanner is key though. I recommend the Nikon Coolscans.

 

C-41 scans 'easier' because you can use the automatic scratch and dust removal of the scanners, which you can't use

in trad silver based b&w film.

[john_shriver]

If you plan to shoot a lot of film, D-76 is a very practical choice. If you're going to shoot a roll or two a month, think about HC-110 (mixed direct from syrup) or DD-X. Long shelf life for both in the original bottle.

[christer_almqvist2]

Larry,

 

that is a superb picture!

 

How was it lit?

What size negative?

[larrydressler]

Christer

35mm lit by sunlight filtered through a bush. Scanned on an Epson 4490 only adjustment was a little sharpening with the resize. Camera was a Mamiya ZE-2 with a screw mount adapter and a Pentax Super Tak 1.4 screwed in to it.

[chris_waller]

My line up is:-

 

Film: HP5, Tri-X (400TX) or Fuji Neopan 400. Developer- Rodinal; Stop - Kodak Indicating Stop; Fixer - Ilford Hypam/Rapid Fixer; Wetting agent - Paterson Acuwet or Tetenal Mirasol.

 

Paper- Ilford Multigrade IV resin coated; paper developer - Ilford PQ Universal; Stop - Kodak Indicating Stop: fixer - Ilford Hypam/Rapid Fixer.

 

Don't use the same stop and fixer for both film and paper. Mix separate stop and fixer for film and paper. Also, invest in a water filter, e.g. Ametek 10 micron, for filtering water for mixing film chemistry.

 

Contrast is controlled by choice of film speed and development. Film can be downrated (i.e. exposed at a lower ASA than box speed) and development reduced accordingly - this will reduce contrast. Conversely, film can be uprated and contrast increased.

[james_ollinger]

"Don't use the same stop and fixer for both film and paper. Mix separate stop and fixer for film and paper."

 

I *never* heard that one before. What diff would it make?

[mjferron]

Lots of good advice above. Agree Tmax 100 is a superb film with unique tonal qualities and is very sharp with fine grain. For me it shoots more like slide film or digital and I really have to watch the highlights. For slower films Plus-x 125 is great with fine vintage tones. If you need more speed Tri-x is a classic and HP5 is a similar film. I'm just starting to mess with the new Tmax 400. Might be the best all around film ever made. Maybe. LOL

[marc_bergman1]

"I'm thinking experimentation will be key here."

 

Be sure to keep good notes on what you used and your development times..

[pc_b]

Well, James, you are here to learn, aren't you? ;-)

 

I think Chris meant to say that one shouldn't use stop or fixer baths already used for paper again while

developing some more films the reason being the possible introduction of paper bits onto your films (irreversible

most of the time).

 

Basically: keep half-used solutions for film in one bottle "Used film fixer, 13 films, 08/07/20" and those for

paper in another "used paper fixer, 22 contacts, 08/07/21" - or something like that.

 

It is often admitted that the use of film-stop and -fixer for the following printing session is ok because film

usually does not leave particles in the solutions (but what about those anti-halation stains gathering in the

paper base?!?....). I've never tried 'continuous use' because I match the liquids to the task beforehand (e.g.,

1.33l of ready fixer solution instead of 1l and too many films). Paper and time are too expensive/dear to me.

 

Cheers, Pete

[chris_waller]

Pete,

 

You understood what I was trying to say - thanks for clarifying.

[jay_de_fehr]

Hi Chris.

 

It's a great time to be getting into film. Kodak recently reintroduced its Tmax 400 (TMY-2) and it is in every way superior to

any film in history, in my own opinion, and irrefutably the finest grained (comparable to traditional 100 speed films), sharpest

ISO 400 speed film ever. TMY-2 scans well, pushes well and responds to development controls predictably due to its

straight line characteristic curve.

 

TMY-2 is comaptible with just about any available developer, and your choice will depend on your needs, both artistic and

practical. If you will develop film only occasionally, you'll probably want a developer with a long shelf life, so you won't have

to worry about it dying between uses, which can be extremely frustrating, especially for a beginner who might not recognize

a weakening developer, and can lead to the loss of irreplaceable images. Developers like Rodinal and HC110 are legendary

for their shelf lives, but both are mediocre developers in most measurable characteristics like grain and sharpness. D-76, ID

-11, Xtol, and similar are excellent all-purpose developers, but the stock solutions degrade unpredictably depending on

conditions of storage, with best case lives of about 6 months in partially filled containers. A good compromise between

something like HC110 and something like D-76 is TmaxRS used one shot directly from the concentrate. The stock solution

won't last forever in partially filled containers the way HC110 seems to, but I've seen it last well over a year, which is very

good. There's a lot of processing/contrast control information on Kodak's ebsite for the TMY-2/TmaxRS combination, and

unlike sites like the Massive Development Chart, Kodak's information is based on state of the art lab practices. Good luck,

and have fun!

[kevin_surfane]

<blockquote>"Don't use the same stop and fixer for both film and paper. Mix separate stop and fixer for film and

paper."

 

I *never* heard that one before. What diff would it make?</blockquote><p/>You can use a dilute version of stop

and fixer for paper (i.e. 1:2 for stop and fixer). And you can actually dilute paper developer a bit for paper too.

<p/>See corresponding manufacturer's literature for more information.