Photo Op for Recording Label ... for free

[daniel_sone]

I received a phone call from a record label's marketing manager who is interested in me photographing one of

their newly signed, upcoming artists.

However, they wish for me to do it for free. If the shoot is a success, then I would/could be used for their

other artists.

 

A photo mentor of mine told me I should never work for free unless it is for a charitable cause. It would devalue

my work and of other photographers. However, should I feel compelled to do it ... it is an awesome opportunity

... I should set up a licensing & fee structure for the use/prints of my images. Additionally, get the proper

releases so I may use them in my portfolio/self-promo.

 

I'm not going to accept a 'work-for-hire' because then I would lose all future compensation and rights to the photos.

 

What should I do? And what kind of additional releases would I need to help ensure I have good control & credit

as well as good compensation.

 

What kind of licensing should I aim for?

[ellis_vener_photography]

the proper response is: I will do the first gig for full price and if it is as good as we both think it will be, then I will shoot the second job for half price.

[warrenlewis]

Out of curiosity, how did they find you?

[john_h.1]

"how did they find you?"

 

By Googling for websites of photographers in the same geographical area who appear to have enough photography skills and neophyte business experience. The demographic most likely to yield those who see working for free as a wonderful experience and will fall for the ole 'we will use you again if things turn out good' but never actually will routine.

[john_h.1]

I forgot, the alternative or concurrent pitch in these situations is the tried and true 'This will be good exposure for you' bit. Sorry for the cynicism but this situation is as classic as it gets.

[brian.]

Don't bother working on contracts and licensing agreements/usage compensation... If they don't get you to shoot it for free they'll move on to somebody else who will.

[thatpaulguy]

Ask them if they'd be willing to give you free licensing rights to their musicians works. You'll give them a credit on your website, which will be great exposure! Tell them if the sales leads from your website increase over time while you use their song then they would/could be used for other marketing campaigns.

[thatpaulguy]

Posted by a colleague of mine.....

 

http://ottawa.en.craigslist.ca/crs/728211460.html

[john_h.1]

<a href="http://photobusinessforum.blogspot.com/2008/06/free-not-working-for-thee.html">Free not working for thee?

</a>

[enlightened-images]

If you let them take advantage of you from the outset, you will NEVER - repeat that word 5x - get a fair value for your work from that client. They will always know you'll roll & cave in. And the minute that you try & stick to your principles after this, they'll walk and go find another sucker.

 

 

Is this the type of client you want to do business with, or do you want a client that will do Business with you? There Is a difference.

 

What was the word you were supposed to repeat? (Just checking...)

 

Now, if you were in a band, you can always ask if he'll trade 25 hours of studio time, and master an 8 track demo. That would have some value.

[Jerry_]

Perhaps you can get the I.R.S. to include a "free" income category when you file your 2008 taxes -- if you take the job gratis....?

[Spearhead]

What kind of label? How many copies do they press on each release? What price do they sell at?<p>The problem with a lot of the responses above is that they don't take into account the answers to these questions. I've shot for major labels and I've shot for labels that lose at least $1000 for every CD they put out. <p><i>If you let them take advantage of you from the outset, you will NEVER - repeat that word 5x - get a fair value for your work from that client.</i><p>I went looking for some evidence that the person who made this comment had ever dealt with record labels and musicians, but only found a lot of nature images. I can tell you from personal experience that I have started with musicians, record labels, promoters, and even local TV shows and worked with them for free when they were working for free and had no problem with them offering to pay as soon as they made more than $10. One has to pick and choose a bit, but if you work with good people, you will get paid, even if there is nothing up front. It's important to remember that most bands work for drink tickets at the bar, and most small labels work to spread the word.

[daniel_sone]

The record label isn't a start-up they've had 2 major hip-hop artists be in the top 10 and top 3 of the Billboard and they've sold more than 700,000 copies each. They are legit.

 

We spoke again today to hammer out the purpose of the images: essentially head shots for press releases, etc.

 

I do need to expand my portfolio and exposure would of course help generate more business.

 

Everyone has made a lot of good points.

[chrisjb]

Sometimes in this photo biz you need to throw in a freebie to promote yourself. Does not take long till you find out what you feel you are worth. Most the entertainers we shoot don`t make much so sometimes have to bend a lil for those referals :)

[enlightened-images]

Jeff:

 

Thanks for your efforts to dig into my past experience. I spent nearly nine years running a niche stock agencies and have dealt with everything from individual artist to major label companies. However, my comment was regarding clients in general. great that you give away your work for beer & drinks as you saw fit. Better for small indie bands sure... but this isn't a band or a single artist, they're talking about a label, a recording company. That should be considered quite differently than putting in a few freebie hours for four mates & a half-sober manager trying to push their self-produced 8 track CD.

 

Cheers,

[tony_clark]

Record labels look out for themselves. They bill the talent for expenses and that includes photography. The label is only

concerned about the bottomline and will simply scratch you off their list and go to the next name. Shoot for free and you

simply stay on the list longer, they only want free. Those CD packages are for established photographers who are already

in the system.

[jstpierre]

Hey all,

 

thought I'd just post, because this is a great thread and is ringing an all too familiar bell with me. I'm working at a small record company as an unpaid intern doing graphic design: many of the people I work with are just out of high school or freshmen in college: I have just recently graduated and am 26.

 

I majored in photography but now I'm starting to wonder if I ought to have majored in business. I spend 8 hours a day designing CD covers and flyers in Photoshop and Illustrator; I consider to be myself a good designer (though a better photographer), I know this is stuff that I could be making 15-20 dollars an hour doing at an agency in an entry level position.

 

I hate to be cynical, but after reflecting these posts I thought about what was said here, and what my boss said: he gave a speech to the interns, saying basically that he wants to bring in "fresh talent" each season, and therefore it is unlikely any of the interns would be hired. While I consider this great experience to build a design portfolio, and my boss seems to be pretty cool guy, I can't help but hearing a little voice that says that this is basically just an opportunity for him to slash his overhead by getting people to work for free.

 

The flip side of the coin is that I've got to meet some really cool people, and get experience photographing unsigned bands which has the potential to lead to paying gigs. I find myself having difficulty deciding what to charge people: I don't want to be a low-baller and give work away, but at the same time, I recognize that I am a young photographer still honing his craft and there are so many exceptional photographers out there, so I feel obligated not to charge "too much".

 

Even though the band I photographed loved the shots (as did my boss) and I've been told by accomplished professional photographers with whom I've worked and assisted that I have a lot of potential and my work is very good, I still feel hesitant on pricing my work "too high", whatever that means. :(

 

If anyone can contribute any sound advice, or recommend sites, publications, or literature that may be helpful, or could relate experiences about starting out, that would be greatly appreciated. This has been a very informative thread though in some ways a bit disheartening, though it seems the current state of our economy has presented everyone with many challenges.

 

As we, and other countries, seem to continually outsource everything, it seems harder and harder to put value on one's work, or to get people to pay you what you're worth, when someone always seems to be willing to do it for less.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Thanks

Justin

[jstpierre]

Graduated college that is. ;-)

[enlightened-images]

Check out APA (Advertising Photographers of America)

and ASMP (American Society of Media Professionals)