enlightened-images

<p>My read is that you'll lose. You agreed that only the company and you shall get to use the photos. You are licensing the further distribution of copyrighted material when you "sell or grant" a copyright license. If it goes in front of a judge, and the decision is a toss up, the favor will almost always go to the client when something is vague. Even before that point is reached, if the client finds out that you've done this, (a) are you willing to lose the client, and (b) are you willing to pay the costs needed to defend yourself if the client decides to sue you over the matter. I don't think your non-legal mind should have signed off on that last sentence if you wanted to do anything other than use the photos for your own promotional purposes, which is what I'm sure your client was interpreting the sentence to mean.</p>

<p>20k for a buyout of 25 images? 40k sounds better. Full buyout? Why not say 10k per selected image? Why sell then an apartment building if they only need one or two units?</p> <p>For the global extension to include print and retail, what would you have charged to shoot that to start? Still 4k for 25 images? 4k for 5 images? 30k for 25 images? Print and retail are still a greater premium use than web only, so I'm thinking 2.5x the orig. is a good ending point, so start negotiating at perhaps 4x the original. 16k for 25 images sounds pretty darn fair for a major brand.</p>

<p>The next time someone asks you for the free use of one of your photos in exchange for some exposure of a credit line, just picture yourself standing outside naked in a blizzard. That's exposure. Your non-existent credit line is worth almost the exact same as a real credit line: not much. For a big magazine, you're just the smallest blip of a fly on a wall, and your complaining about not getting your free credit line will get you exactly what they would do for anyone they paid for the photo and a credit line; You'll get a small correction notice in next months issue. (Unless you piss them off.) There's nothing more they owe you. The reason pros ask for money is cuz they know credit lines are pretty much worth squat. The reason commercial uses get more money than editorial uses is the photographer charge more to the company to leave the credit line OFF. Think about it. The value is not in having the credit line, but it is worth more to the client to not have the credit line as a requirement for use. But... moot point since many who call themselves photographers don't understand the value of their work.</p>

<p>I do this quite a lot, but usually with a full blown thematic presentation. Recently I was asked to "just show some pictures and talk about them." Don't ask what they want to hear about, but rather just invite people to ask questions as you go along.<br /><br />Pick some kind of outline subject that you can work a concept foundation around, whether location, subject, technique, personal passion, etc. If you practice the presentation, aim for about 5-10 minutes short so you can answer extra questions. Also, be aware as an audience member, they can get bored if looking at the same image while you talk on an on for two minutes describing the experience. Try and use multiple images to illustrate a topic or concept, and perhaps build up to how you arrived at a particular end shot.<br /><br />Good luck.</p>

<p>If it was me...<br> They could opt for a full priced traditional rights managed license for commercial marketing use and corporate web site use based on size and press run, or<br> <br />I'd charge a *Minimum* of a high-end traditional RF license, just for the marketing materials, *with* a requirement for a credit line in all printed or electronic uses for 3 years, $750 for 5 years, or $950 for unlimited term non-exclusive use. (2x times RF rate)<br /><br />For web use, at a minimum, I'd limit to inside secondary screen, 3 years, under 600 pixels $175 with a credit line and a live link back to my web site, $300 no credit line, or $495 no credit line no term limit (again, another rate equal with a high-end RF image, but without the RF license.<br /><br />Hope that helps.<br /><br />Gary.</p> <p>PS I have a page about pricing images on the sidebar of my weblog, but Photo.net won't let me post a link. You can find it by going to my web site though.<br /><br />PPS @ Ellis V. Great pic of the Japanese Umbrella which showed up on the bottom of the page.<br /><br /></p>

<p>I give you a 10 for enthusiasm and really laying everything out very well. You did an excellent job getting all your content together and structuring it into a cohesive project.</p> <p>You ask why you're not getting backers. The sad unfortunate truth is the images simply aren't compelling. When I got my start running a stock agency for a well known photographer, one of my first jobs was putting together calendar submissions. The first, quickest lesson I needed to learn from an editors perspective (which also helped me as a photographer) was to learn what make an image compelling to a viewer. And while calendars are only on a wall for a month (per photo) a picture that someone hangs on their wall in their house or office needs to maintain visual interest for years, even decades. You need to ask yourself if you really believe your photos have that level of compelling visual traction and staying power. If the answer is no, you'll know why you aren't getting backers. The simple truth is backers for what you're presenting will be pretty much relegated to your friends and family. (As in, "All my friends and family tell me I take good photos.") If you want to get beyond that level, your images, your visual stories will need to resonate with the viewers on an emotional level before they'll spend their hard-earned dollars investing in your work.</p> <p>My advice? Slow down a bit on your ambitions, and focus on learning how to create visually compelling photos. Buy a cheap DSLR, take some classes, learn about processing, and all that stuff. You seem to have a strong start on the marketing, so now you need to bring your 'product; up to that same level. In a couple years, come back and tackle this again, but refocused on what you'll give to others, not what you want for yourself.<br /><br />Sincere best wishes on your future goals.</p>

<p>And there are many similar images on Getty listed as RF which would have sold btwn $350 and 500, and images listed as RR like this: http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/video/from-jet-flying-above-and-through-clouds-stock-video-footage/9004-32#p which would be nearly $6500 for unlimited worldwide advertising. It think it's easy to imaging if the footage was good enough you could have easily gotten $1000 - $2500 for an unrestricted term license. depending on who the company was, or what the intended use was for, it could easily have been thousands. True, likely hundreds if the client was smaller, but the difference could have been anywhere between a nice meal out, or a week long vacation somewhere nice.</p>

<p>As for your latter questions, probably too late. You promised him non-exclusive use with no other restrictions? You can't ethically ask for restrictions after the fact. This is all stuff you need to know before you make the sale. Yes, you need to provide him a written license, which specifies the use and the fee. Include a note which says no use is permitted until the license fee is paid in full. Have him pay you through PayPal if you don't already accept credit cards.</p>

<p>$100? Oh, I'm sure he accepted.<br /><br />Do you really want to know how much money you left on the table?<br /><br />Getty charges over $7,000.00 for unlimited use in a commercial.<br> <br />(File under: Value your work. If you don't, no one else will either.)</p> <p> </p>

<p>Hi Angela:</p> <p>Sorry I was out of town or I would have tried to answer. Sorry you didn't get any help here. Did you get it figured out already? If so, how'd it go? If not, I can only say that many of the hotel clients who've wanted prints for rooms are usually looking for poster prices even though they want photographic prints. If you still need more help let me know and I'll try to offer some extra advice.</p>