Canon, PLEASE buy a Nikon and learn about FLASH

[mahonri_moriancumer]

In shooting the same event with a friend who uses the D300 Nikon (both of us

using flash) his images don't exhibit nearly the problems mine do. All the

images from his camera were spot on while mine varied a fair amount. I had too

many with blown highlights and too many too dark. We were within two feet of

each other shooting against the same background and the same athletes. No

changing of anything.

I sure wish Canon would get their act together on Flash photography. The

1DMkIII with 580II EX doesn't compare to his D300 outfit and, from previous

shoots it doesn't compare with his D200 either. Nikon is way ahead of Canon in

this regard.

[PuppyDigs]

On the other hand, you could learn to use your Canon flash better and get consistently

excellent results. Ain't that hard. With a little study and practice one can learn the idiosyncrasies of E-TTL and thus know when to take control of it or let it run on auto.

[michael_winkels1]

May be your friend is a better photographer ? :-) With the level of detail you provided it is close to impossible to usefully comment on.

[m_barbu1]

I agree with Puppy.

[santa1]

While clearly many flash issues are user generated, I hear this same refrain over and over again in terms of Nikon having more consistent flash. I recently shot an event with another photographer next to me. We both had Canon flashes (550) and Canon camera's (similar but not same). The other photographer had a great deal of trouble with horrible blown out images. I had no trouble but certainly did quite a bit of changing from manual to Av (indoor room was dark in some areas but available light was good in others) for fill flash. The other photographer simply had to give up when trying to get some closeup shots of an item that was fairly light. I shot it with no problem. Clearly, two photographers can have good/bad results even with the same camera brand and the same flash.

That said, after all the posts I have read regarding Nikon's ease of use with Flash, I would be of the mind that they do have an edge in ease of use with Flash technology and wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the OP as inexperienced. From what I gather the Nikon flash is simply easier and more consistent than Canon. I like my Canon gear but I'm not an apologist. When I got my MKII I complained about the awkward menus and buttons and the need for two hands for so many operations and was often belittled until Canon changed (improved) their menu system. At that point everyone said how great the changes were. Cracked me up.

Canon's flash takes quite a bit of work to really "get" and use in mixed lighting. I do a lot of master/slave flash and set ratios frequently and find it really, really nice. Nikon may be better but never having used it I can't say. I CAN say that Canon flash takes work but does work well once mastered.

[leif_goodwin8]

I've never used Canon flash, but I can confirm that Nikon flash is (usually) very straightforward and reliable.

[cnhoff]

I agree that the Nikon system yields better results, when you know nothing about the manner your flash system works. Once you have put a little effort in getting to know the Canon system, it yields the same results as the Nikon system.

 

Just pulling the trigger on a Canon certainly will lead to mostly overexposed shots, so in this regard you are right Mahonri.

[seismiccwave]

I have with agree with the OP. I was shooting a retirement party last week and brought my

1DsMk3 with the 580 II EX. I was going to back that up with my Nikon 300D with the SB800.

The image quality was better with the 1DsMk3 but the flash exposure was not consistent. So

I started using the Nikon setup. I just set everything up to automatic (which I normally don't

like much) and it was a no brainer. My only bad shots were the ones that the flash didn't

recycle fast enough.

[andrew_viny]

I think that this is really not true. It is my expirience that any photographer can taken excellent images with just about anything so long as he masters his tools. As an example I am going to bring up people like Jacob Riis. This guy used magnesium flash powder as a flash unit.

 

As I said a photographer can do great things so long as he takes the time to master his tools.

 

~Andrew

[KenPapai]

Notice that the people dissin' Canon flash are not talking about their settings? Who knows what they are doing wrong. I've seen people with 1D and 5D cameras post here without the vaguest idea of what their doing.

 

Shooting in Manual mode (on the camera dial) with a Speedlite 580EX isn't all that challenging.

[Ken Katz]

At a social event, I get consistent results using a 5D, and adjusting FEC +/- about 1/3 stop as needed (which is really fine tuning). Typically using M mode and shooting with a Lightsphere. With a D60, exposure was very inconsistent, and you had to work real hard to get decent flash exposure.

[chrisjb]

>>shooting against the same background and the same athletes. No changing of anything.<<

 

Amd all set to a manual setting to get consistancy, or in an auto mode adjusting FEC for light or dark clothing? were you both in full auto? maybe need to understand ettl a lil better. I have heard less probs in auto with nikon, also heard of big probs when nik comes of auto :)

[abdul smith]

i agree canon's system is overly complicated. and i have studied the photonotes.org article

along with the manual, and it still is a crap-shoot when i use flash. (i have tried both ETTL

and Manual mode).

 

for those of you who are able to get consistent results and know of a source that can help

the rest of us who aren't 'smart' enough or good enough photogs to understand, please

show us the way.

[dave_hoffmann]

Maybe you should have let the the guy with the Nikon take your equipment and set it up for you. Sounds like he knows more about flash photography than you.

[hjoseph7]

TTL always works better when you set the aperture to f8 and above. Anything under will cause 'iffy' results. Set the Camera to Manual, the aperture to F8 and above, make sure your batteries are in proper working condition and you should have no problems.

[chrisjb]

`help the rest of us who aren't 'smart' enough or good enough photogs to understand, please show us the way.

 

Nothing to do with being smart or good, just practice like all things, I can only describe what has worked best with our photo biz, 98% people pics.

 

Since days of T90`s the FEL dance has been very affective, when the D30 came out it worked best with FEL as the FP was linked, when we went 20d`s ouch, all different but FEL still worked for us. Not just understanding flash but knowing the camera helps as well. Many don`t like this method, some just read too much.but DOF needs to be understood and the affects of lens curvature.

 

Why we use FEL: flash exposure lock allows you to pick an area and meter for that area, eg when faced with a group skin tones will vary from one person to the next so the one with the most neutral tone will give best results. We only use the center FP 2 reasons, on 20d its high percision and the AWB is deermined from the inner circle, we cover many venues and don`t have time for CWB, most saless are made with only one shot. In `M` mode 1/30~1/80sec is used allowing various amounts of ambient light into the pic, all our shots are at 800ISO. `f` stops as required for DOF usually f2.8 ~f7.1..So focus and FEL on a neutral point recompose and shoot.

 

Nah, not that somple..unfortunately Ettl usually requires a lil human intervention, FEC. this is where the practice comes in. as with weddings dark clothes are metered the camera will try to lighten them, therefore you over ride it with FEC, white the same. the same goes for light and dark backgrounds. You learn as you progress how much will be needed to use. And yep, not many get it right every time. Just my take others will have their own ways..HTH :)

`

[chrisjb]

BTW, I may not have explained things fully, Nadine O hara has also explained the system is her way, If I remember a while back in the wedding forum, If you can find it, it is well worth reading

 

Good luck

[chrisjb]

>>>explained the system is her way<<<

 

should have been `in her own way`

 

Typo`s again :0)

[sarah_fox]

Hmmmm... I use my 550EX so rarely, because I'm mostly a natural light photographer. Either that, or I use a bunch of Wein IR triggered Vivitars. It seems every time I pull out my 550EX I have to scratch my head a second or two to remember the controls, especially if I'm using my 1n (since I rarely shoot film). However, I've NEVER had problems with uncontrollably blown-out images or inconsistent results. It's true I don't have the 580EX II, but I can't imagine that it's so bad as all that. I bet if you read the manual from cover to cover, all will become clear, including your photos. The Canon speedlites are very nice devices.

[abdul smith]

thanks for the rules of thumb chris. i'll give them a shot this week at the next event i cover.

i'll also search for the nadine ohara thread you recommend.

[dogbert]

I agree with the OP. Canon flash is basically a crap shoot. Continually riding the the FEC and using FEL is all well and good for subjects that are static and when not trying to capture the moment. But if taking candids or quick shots at a social event then my P&S is much more reliable.

 

An auto flash mode that works well would be far more useful to me, than getting real intimate with ETTL and constantly riding the FEC.

[PuppyDigs]

With the 10D I had to leave FEC set to -2/3 as default. My 20D needed +2/3. Both needed

additional FEC for predominantly light or dark scenes. I wouldn't call it constantly riding

the FEC. I really only needed to dial in extra maybe 10% of the time. In this regard my old

Nikon bodies were the same! That is, I had to leave EC and/or FEC set as a default. We

used to call it calibrating the meter. If it was way off, I used to monkey with the ISO

instead.

 

My 40D and 5D are good to go with FEC set to zero most of the time. Only predominantly

light or dark scenes need a little tweak. Now this is assuming the active AF sensor is on

the subject. E-TTL II isn't as strongly biased to the active AF point as E-TTL but it still

effects exposure. If you wanta use lock-AF-recompose you need to use FEL or the camera

will bias flash exposure for a black void...

 

Some shooter's styles--especially those that prefer recomposing--might be better served

by using the flash averaging algorithm rather than E-TTL II. On the EOS 5D you set CF

14.1. It disables E-TTL and averages flash exposure across the frame--sorta like those

old Vivitar 285 units--and also defeats auto fill flash reduction (you have to remember to

dial it in yourself). I found this setting to be the most foolproof if you prefer to point 'n

shoot.

[herbert_hughes]

Some great answers here, I've also found it matters if youare set for. evalutive, average, or spot metering.

[photo_dark]

Oh for the frigging love of crap, quit with the bashing.

 

"i can't seem to get the same flash consitency with my canon as my Nikon"

 

"you should probably quit photography because you don't have a clue what you are doing"

 

I thought the whole point of discussion boards was DISCUSSION. Especially somewhere like here which (supposedly) is full of 'professionals'. If the way you treat your clients is at all how you treat questions on this board, I don't understand how some of you get any business.

 

But enough ranting. I use a 40D, 380EZ flash (no manual settings, it's old). I shoot in M or Av, flash compensation about -1/3 or -2/3, usually with some sort of a diffuser (in lower light) and about -1/3 when doing fill flash close up, or +1/3 when using fill flash on more distant subjects. I also typically use spot for 'people' shots in difficult lighting situations, and evaluative when things are a little more even (shooter friendly).

 

Any exposure issues i've had have been my own fault. I actually make mistakes... although I wish I was more like some people on here who obviously never do.

[._._z]

Nikon has the best flash going (with Olympus mimicking), but that still ain't saying much. All the brands have flash idiosyncrasies.