What would you do to improve your local 1 hour lab?

[brian_wood4]

To give some background, I have been working in a Walmart minilab for about

a year and a half now. I came into the job through a friend of mine, knowing

very little about film, or even photography in general. Since then I have taken

it upon myself to learn everything I could about the machines I have to deal

with and a general knowledge of photography. Walmart provides basically no

training for their lab workers; you pretty much get whatever knowledge can be

passed on from people already working there and from training videos that are

about 7 years out of date and dead wrong in some instances. I was lucky that my

friend had already been in a different lab for several years and had learned

quite a bit from a more qualified technician. I also picked up a camera myself.

I still shoot film with a Canon AE1 and Elan 7E and until recently only used a

50mm F/1.8 lens.

 

In searching the internet for different topics regarding processing film,

almost every single one has lead to a thread here on photo.net. So I figure

this would be a good place to ask: What can I do to make my lab better?

(My lab uses a Frontier 390 system printing on Fuji Crystal Archive type II lustre)

 

A major thing I've picked up is the simple use of gloves while handling

negatives. Most people in the lab do not like to wear them, and they are not

expected to by our manager.

[hjoseph7]

"A major thing I've picked up is the simple use of gloves while handling negatives"

 

Gloves are good, very good ! Picky photographers do not like fingerprints or someones DNA on their film. Another thing is to avoid dust and hair particles as much as possible. Dirty film leaves spots on the negative which are then transferred to the print. My experience is that Wallmart is OK when it comes to film and prints, but their scans suck.

 

Ritz the retail camera shop has trained lab personell. That's why the can charge a little more. These guys usually know about color correction which is a bonus, They also dont just press the 'Dummy' button and then go drink coffee they try to color correct every picture that passes through their monitor. Di d i sat monitor ?

[terry_m7]

Hi Brian,

 

Yes, gloves would be best for handling Films. If others don't use gloves, then their hands should be clean, and they should only touch the Film along the sprocket holes and never the image Frame.

 

When making Prints from developed Negatives, make sure there is no dust on the Film. Use soft Cotton Cheese Cloth or an equivalent to gently wipe off any dust.

 

Make sure that the developing and printing machine are not pulling on the Film too tightly. I switched to having Kodak's Qualex develop my Films because of abrasions and even scratches on my Films from a local Japan Camera Centre Lab. The abrasions were in the direction the Film moves through the machine, and so I know that this was the cause. There is essentially no abrasions on the Films done by Qualex. Carefully look over the machine to see what could cause scratches, and fix any causes. By holding the developed Film up to a light at an angle, you can see any abrasions and deduce what might be the cause.

[bob_sunley]

Cleanliness, training and go back to optical printers.

[ronald_moravec1]

I commend you for your efforts. Now learn what you can and get a job with a prolab.

 

The consumer finishing business is a cash cow, yet the owners put very little effort into the output.

 

It is supposed to make passible prints for consumers most of whom would not know a good one from a bad or whose fault it was if bad. Digi was supposed to solve that, yet the processes run out of control and they stil blame the photographer. I have sent perfect files out and get garbage back from a local yokel. They sware it is me.

 

Then they buy cheap commercial paper instead of pro portrait paper. Everything comes back with too much contrast. The unknowing public likes the high contrast and deeply saturated unrealistic colors. So they keep doing it. That paper is 30% cheaper too.

 

The public does not care if the negs are dirty. Most all will never be used again anyway.

 

Now we have 90% of the photogs using digi and simply putting the pics on the computer. Why bother with expensive badly made prints? Mine go to a prolab or MPIX who do a super job and do not do any of the things I write about here.

 

Cropping is another issue. I expect the picture to have all the info printed that is on the file or neg right into the corners. Negs are almost always loosing 20% to the point where Walmart has chopped off heads. UNEXCEPTABLE to say the least. The only time cropping is acceptable is if the formats are different and you are forced to do it such as a 4x6 file and an 8x10 print is requested. The ends must be cut. I at least cut on my computer so the crop is where I want it and I send an 8x10 proportion. If someone wants borders, how is it done? You mask off even more of the neg. How unexceptable can you get?

 

Summary,

 

Correct color

 

Clean negs

 

Not overly contrasty

 

No cropping

 

This all costs extra money, but to put out a quality product, this is what is required. In the mean time, I will keep my darkroom open or print in my light room or send the work to someone who will do a decent job. If they can`t print as well as I can, I find another source.

[kurt_holter]

Calibrate daily.

 

At least...

 

Don't stretch the chemistry.

 

Be nice.

[RaymondC]

Dust, scratches be taken care off. Ditto to print a full frame - no crop.

 

 

I have never used a minilab machine but have seen a machine closeup when our club had a VIP night out with a lab that is one of our sponsors. Over time I have used them for several years and always gotten a cast - darkish bit yellow green tint. Ie., botanical gardens looked like a jungle but they do sell all kinds of $$ stuff. From your cheap film to all the way to large format pro films.

 

I've also gotten sad results when I thought I was using cheap film so I got a roll of Portra NC 160. Still was bad. Overtime I went via the yellow pages and did reprints with diff labs and thus I switched labs. However for digital was good with that lab thou.

 

For a year now, I have a Epson V700 scanner and just in "FULL AUTO" it does a v good job. I have scanned some old film and compared it to the prints I received. Home scanning were much better, better dynamic range, better colors even with Fuji Superia 400 that I used in the old days before becoming a camera geek, film purchased from the supermarket and just left in my wardrobe for a yr or like before I used it. In fact it almost had no color cast. But that film lacked some punch, it looked plain but I guess nothing some contrast/curves/levels cannot do.

 

So why is it that a "full auto" flatbed scanner does a better job than these minilab machines which cost 6 digits? With my Epson I can just use thumbprints - auto batch scanning and its better.

 

Seriously I have received better prints from the overnight shopping mall than that lab I used. Or dropping film to the nearest pharmacy. True one of the pro labs I use, says they use a Kodak minilab and their results are beautiful as is a digital online lab that I use.

 

One thing I like about minilabs is that, the glossy prints look unique for small prints I now use a online lab and they give me great Fuji prints, matte or more like inkjet luster is also not bad. For small prints where I am its more economical and A4 and larger I print mysel which I tend to use true matte and fine art papers also luster.

[brian_wood4]

Wow, thanks for all the great replies!

 

The scratches on the negatives are usually caused (in my experience) by the film processor. The problem is that a lot of labs are very bad about cleaning out the machine, which leaves a lot of crap in the chemicals plus whatever pieces of tape that may fall of leader cards and such. Even when a scratch is occurring, it can be almost impossible to troubleshoot, because it can happen in any one of many places.

 

The cropping is something I'll have to look into further. I don't have full control of the machine because of the way Fuji has it locked down for the Walmart labs, but I might be able to tweak it some. It does crop around the edges on the film scanner, and then you lose a minor amount further in the printer. I am unsure of the settings for the scanner, but the cropping from the printer comes down to a lot of how it is setup. It will crop some on the exposure, and then more when it cuts the prints depending upon how well the cutter is calibrated. If you do want a print that is slightly different than a standard size, there are ways to print it with no cropping. Unfortunately, it can't be done on the kiosk and I doubt most Walmart people would know how.

 

When I first started at the lab I work at now, we had to constantly recalibrate the laser density, because anything red was coming out way too bright and would start to bleed. Thankfully the process is relatively idiot proof and is completely automated. Turns out it needed a new laser. I have seen consistent color casts, like Ray mentioned, happening because of the printer. Another local lab has always been like that, they just don't care to fix it. It doesn't help much that Fuji has farmed out their tech support, so anybody with experience fixing the machines is long gone. The last few techs who have come to fix our machine have left a real mess for me to sort out. And I can tell you, it's more out of a personal goal to have decent quality than the $8.70 and hour they're paying me that I will bother to perform preventative maintenance.

 

Something slightly unrelated, but that I thought was interesting is that our equipment is fully capable of handling 120 film. But Walmart will not let us order the $150 or so of parts we would need in order to perform the development/scanning.

[RaymondC]

From our trip to that lab .. there are attachments that you can do up to 5x7 large format (!). But no batch feeder or such is possible. Looks like the Frontier machine just runs on Windows OS :)

[larrydressler]

How about you don't freak out when I ask for a roll of 110 , 120 35mm developed and scanned at a higher resolution or to have a roll of Slide film cross processed in the c-41?

 

Larry

[d_s31]

I don't know about Walmart, but I hate it when mini labs put all the negatives piled on one another in that little envelope on the side. I have had bent negatives in the past.<p/>My Dad went to Walmart and the tech printed one of his photos and said "This is professional!" and proceeded to tear it up - even when my father protested that he did in fact take the photo. (It wasn't <i>that</i> good.) He wasn't charged, but he did spend all that time there.<p/>I've stopped using big box store mini labs because of what I've said and what the others above said. And no, there's nothing Walmart, Costco or any of the drug store chains can do to get me back.

[dlw]

Clean rollers, fresh chemistry, wear gloves, and use good paper. Do all that and you're ahead of the game.

[alan_rockwood]

Brian,

 

The most important thing by far is training. This would fix most of the other problems. You have managed to do a lot of self training, but you are clearly the exception. Training needs to include competency testing after the employees initial training and annual (or more frequent) review of standard operating procedures by each employee.

 

The second most important thing is to establish quality assurance and quality control programs and follow them faithfully. For example, maintenance programs need to be established and followed, control strips need to be run regularly and correction procedures must be followed when the controls are out, and a program should be established to investigate errors and change the processes that lead to the errors. In addition, if Walmart were really serious about quality they would institute a system of proficiency testing (PT) wherein the lab would regularly receive proficiency testing samples from a PT program, possibly an internally established Walmart-wide program. The result (prints in this case) would be sent back for grading, and those labs that fail the test would be required to investigate the cause of the failure and take corrective action.

 

The third most important thing is to establish a program for continual improvement.

 

The three items listed above are, of course, highly interrelated.

 

Some people wonder why the Japanese (especially Toyota) are gradually taking over the lion's share of the international car market. The reason is basically that they have mastered most of the items listed above, resulting in better product quality and reduced manufacturing cost.

 

Alan

[dickhilker]

The best thing my local lab could do would be to take down the "Closed -- gone out of business" sign from the window of their vacant storefront. Now, the nearest pro lab is 50 miles away.

[paul_miller10]

Years ago I put in my time on minilabs before it all went digital.

If you are using a Frontier, there isn't too much you can do to screw up the chemicals and calibration. The machine is smarter than most of the people using it in terms of process control. before Frontiers Walmarts were notorious for letting their processes get out of control because nobody--not even the lab managers--knew what was going on. We had a Walmart near our lab and we could tell their prints from any others just by looking at the navy blue blacks.

 

If you want to turn out quality work, keep your fingers off that NORMAL button and don't be afraid of the extreme ends of the density scale buttons--especially with indoors flash photography.

 

You also have to learn to out-think the printer in the minilab. You always have to add cyan to airshow shots because the printer will try to compensate for the blue. If you have a yellow cab taking up a lot of an image the printer will make everything else blue because of the predominance of yellow. A picture of a child on a green lawn will end up with a magenta skin tone because the printer will compensate for the abundance of green. A master printer will learn to judge how to compensate by the subject matter as he or she becomes more experienced.

I always tell people that if you see NNNN on the back of all of your prints, it's time to find a different lab.

[craig_sander]

Keep the chemicals fresh.

Learn about all different types of films and their respective processings.

Don't touch the negatives with your McFingers.

[jtk]

1) Insist that every employee shoot at least one roll of film each week, and require that each of those rolls be processed and printed by your newest employee other than themselves.

 

2) see above

[danny_wong2]

HAVE THEM HIRE YOU.

 

Having read your initial post and all the replies - get yourself into a real pro lab as soon as one will hire you. Your attitute, work habit and desire to learn at your own time is too good for wallymart.

[25asa]

I work at a lab as well, and we use Noritsu equipment. My understanding on the crop issue is the machine has a certain amount of uneven prints passing through the machine. Meaning the prints don't always go in straight from corner to corner. The only way to avoid white areas on the prints because of uneven movement through the machine, is to overprint and hence get a cropped image on the final. This cannot be avoided. Of course some labs have that setting a bit too far in, but our service techs who come to our lab have it set to allow as much as possible without to much print shift.

[terry_m7]

Another suggestion I would make is that you always make sure, when making Photos from older Negatives, that you don't mix up Left and Right. Older Negatives don't always have writing on the edge to easily determine L&R. I once had a local Lab (Japan Camera Centre) print out a bunch of snapshots that were reversed! They were 120 format from 1959.

[lauren_macintosh]

Brian Wood: Take a survey while your on shift from those customers dropping film off and see if any of them shot 120 film and if there is a large number , put together a pitch to show them that they could be making more money it might work at your store but may not work for all the stores! Keep up the good work for people like you are becoming harded to find :

[g._armour_van_horn]

Did your mother ever tell you Cleanliness was next to Godliness? She was right. Except she had her priorities backwards. Cleanliness comes first. Particularly anywhere that wet film is moving. (Thoroughly dry film is surprisingly tough.) For the record, I am a devout Christian, and I still say that cleanliness comes first.

 

After that, pay attention to the timing and quantities of chemistry. If the book says to replenish now with 127 ml, don't try to do it tomorrow with 100.

 

Gloves are good but not crucial, you can learn to handle film rapidly with bare hands (but probably not really dirty bare hands) without contacting the image area. But if you ever have to actually touch the image area, put a glove on.

 

Van

[bradey]

people who care about getting good quality will go to a good lab. get a job somewhere else and you will thank yourself (everyone else will care as much as you do). aside from that, keep clean.

[sam_chesnutt]

Brian,

 

Ensure that you do Master Balances daily. We used to do them three times a day. Make friends with the service rep, he is the guy that can keep you running.... Listen to what he says. Not all required service needs to be done. (We did a $4,000 prevenative maintance that was to last 2 days... We were down a week!) We found that if normal maintenance is done (WASH the racks) and your replenishment rates are right you will have few problems...

 

Unfortunately for us that was not enough. In our hey day as a Pro / One Hour Lab, we would do 4,000 to 5,000 prints a day plus an E6 line. Even after investing 250K in digital printers, once digital took hold we dropped to below 1,200 prints a day and a roll or two of E6, no sheet film. A staff of 9 dropped to a staff of 3. We finally closed the doors in 2004 after 24 years.

 

Had a guy call me last year and ask when we closed, he used us all the time... When I told him it had been 3 years he swore to me he had been there just a couple of months ago.

 

Times change, adapt, read and stay current. It does not mean you will always make the right decision, it just means you have done your best and no one could ask for more.

 

As for me... I'm in another startup business... Medical Imaging!

 

Best regards,

 

Sam

[25asa]

On a good day we still do 4000+ prints. Sometimes it gets as low as 2000+ prints. Its digital that is keeping us afloat. We would have been sunk years ago if we just did film only. And our lab is being kept alive by camera sales. That is where the big increases come from.