Nikon F3 counter index stuck at 40

[orfeas]

Hi there all,

Just got a nice F3 on ebay the other day, and managed to solve 2 of its 3 major

problems: replaced light seals/mirror shock absorber, and straightened slightly

bent back. However, there is another problem I cannot figure out.

The counter index number is stuck at 40 (maximum) and will not reset to 0 when

camera back opens or closes.

From what I understand, this is done via the a small dent on the back (according

to mir website); my F3 does NOt have such a dent on the back. The only thing I

can find inside the upper right horizontal slot of the rear, is what seems to be

a round white metal (about1-2mm diameter).

Is this suposed to jump out when oppening the back and reset the counter? Could

this be the piece that got "stuck".

Thanx for shedding some light..... just trying to avoid expensive overrated

"services" (allready saved quite some bucks refoaming my self)

 

Orfeas

[lilly_w]

The small, metal object ('pin', we'll call it) is, in fact, the reset mechanism for the film counter. (I don't know what you mean by 'dent'. Neither of mine have 'dents' but there is a corresponding shiny spot on the edge of the film door where the pin makes contact.) The pin moves by a nearly imperceptible distance when the door is opened. You will not see the pin move because the pin is obscured by the door and by the time the door has opened to the point that you *can* see the pin, the pin has already been 'sprung' and the counter reset. You could try depressing the pin w/ the blade of a screwdriver, but then again the counter itself may need some TLC. Careful back there as you don't want to do any 'custom work' on the shutter curtain. Good job on the foam and seals.

[lee hamiel]

I'm guessing that when you replaced the foam seals that maybe you did not allow for clearance for the pin - I have replaced a number of seals & one problem is getting the old gunk in this space - may need to either remove a portion of the foam or if you left space then try to clean the body in this region with a toothpick - I have also used a toothpick soaked lightly with lighter fluid to loosen.

 

It helps to cut a piece of heavy paper & tape off the shutter zone.

 

Good luck - I believe you'll be okay.

 

Also - do you have an MD-4 mounted?

[arraga]

<p>It seems that's not so simple. If you dig enough in the mir website, you'll come to <a href=http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikonf3ver2/f3technical/counter.htm>this page</a>, with an explanation of the film counter reset mechanism.

 

<p> I found it originally when my F3 had this problem. After seeing that page, I abandoned the idea of self repair. I started to exercise more the camera - opening and closing it many times, and now the counter works properly.

 

<p>HTH, Santiago

[orfeas]

Santiago: that was exactly the point I was reffering to.

"The standard or any version of the Databack will have a slight protruding edge (A)." I cannot see this protruding edge on the corresponding point of the back (a standard type, in my case). So it seems there is no contact (?)

However, when I took the old foam off, I tried to either push the pin, or carefully "scrape" around this pin (within the slot offcourse) with a tiny screwdriver, but it just seems stuck :-(

Perhaps I should use some kind of chemical to "loosen" this pin? (always tiny controled dosis, needless to say)

BTW no MD-4 mounted, just the body.

[orfeas]

I located the pin we are talking about, so I think I will try with solvents to try and get it "moving" . .

[arraga]

Orfeas: You are right; my standard back has no dent or protuberance to push the pin. There's a small bare metal spot in it where the pin rubs it, but nothing that seems specially designed to act on the pin. Maybe the mir site guy was looking at a latter version of the F3; mine is an early non-HP.

 

It seems I confused the counter switch mechanism with the reset one, I was put off with the complexity of the former. More careful reading next time, I guess.

 

In my F3, the pin is pushable, using a small tootpick. I took the back of, and actioned the shutter a few times, without touching the pin. The counter did not move. Then I used the toothpick, pushing the pin constantly while releasing the shutter a few times; the counter started to move forward, and was reset at the moment I loosened the pin. Seems that your original guess was right.

 

Best of luck and be careful with the solvent.

[nic_olas]

Hi! Old post, but did you find a fix OP?

My newly aquired F3 is doing the same and sounds to be the same model.

Flat little circle thats pushed flush to body and won't move in or out. Film counter stuck @ 40 and won't pop with door open / closing.

I cleaned old foams away that were right on top of the button, probably has something to do with it 

With a non-resetting counter, is the F3 still usable and should work okay?

This is the 3rd time getting an F3 in the hope to find a working one! 

[mike_halliwell]

I take it the shutter still cocks and fires OK?

Just curious, but why does the film counter go beyond 36?

I know you can hand-load a cassette with more than 36 frames worth of film, but it's no very precise.

[Niels - NHSN]

1 hour ago, mike_halliwell said:

Just curious, but why does the film counter go beyond 36?

I know you can hand-load a cassette with more than 36 frames worth of film, but it's no very precise.

Probably your last suggestion.

Film length isn't a standard carved in stone. I have many cameras with a red "20" on the counter but short length films seems to have settled on 24 now.

A cassette with film of standard thickness can hold about 40 frames without pushing it too far, so why lock into a 36 standard that may change?

Longer than about 38 is admittedly not too practical if developing on standard reels.

BWT: My Nikon F goes to exactly 36, but my F2 and F3 both goes to 40. My Leica IID from 1933 in front of me has 39 markings before it restarts from 0.

 

[Niels - NHSN]

8 hours ago, nic_olas said:

 

With a non-resetting counter, is the F3 still usable and should work okay?

This is the 3rd time getting an F3 in the hope to find a working one! 

I imagine it should work OK if stuck at 40. It would probably be a bigger problem if it was stuck before 1 as the F3 only shoots at 1/80 until it reaches the first frame.

Good luck in your quest, but it really shouldn't be that hard find a healthy one - unless you are scraping the bottom of the market in search of a bargain.

[c_watson1]

Zombie thread, y'all. OP MIA since 2006!

[Niels - NHSN]

57 minutes ago, c_watson1 said:

Zombie thread, y'all. OP MIA since 2006!

So what? Somebody obviously still have a related problem. Expanding on existing knowledge is wiser than starting from scratch IMO.

[bgelfand]

11 hours ago, mike_halliwell said:

I take it the shutter still cocks and fires OK?

Just curious, but why does the film counter go beyond 36?

I know you can hand-load a cassette with more than 36 frames worth of film, but it's no very precise.

I checked my records. I regularly got 37 or even 38 frames on factory loaded cassettes,- mostly Fuji, Agfa APX, and Kodak Portra. Kodak T-Max was 36 only and Ilford occasionally gave me more than 36 frames.

[c_watson1]

6 hours ago, Niels - NHSN said:

So what? Somebody obviously still have a related problem. Expanding on existing knowledge is wiser than starting from scratch IMO.

Seriously? That's real boredom!

[nic_olas]

15 hours ago, mike_halliwell said:

I take it the shutter still cocks and fires OK?

Just curious, but why does the film counter go beyond 36?

I know you can hand-load a cassette with more than 36 frames worth of film, but it's no very precise.

Yep, still cocks and fires.

In some ways it's good to not have the first 3 frames stuck @ 80, but still, would be nice to have it 100% working!

The little pin in the film door is flush, won't budge or pop out. Thinking of ways to loosen it or get leverage on it to pop it out again...

On the "zombie thread" subject, I also think it's useful to add to old threads, keep them alive and grow the resources for any future cameras / visitors! 

[c_watson1]

Can't see the point apart from self-congratulation of chiming on dead threads, especially when it involves cameras, like the F3, that effectively went out of production in the mid-90s. Nikon really couldn't service them past the early 2000s. Surviving indy repair shops do no better now.  Just stop the delusional blather unless you've something concrete to share. Just BS otherwise and zero value to PN.

[mike_halliwell]

8 hours ago, nic_olas said:

it's good to not have the first 3 frames stuck @ 80

I remember by loading a 'standard' 36 frame film into my FM2N in the total dark, you could just reach 40 on a good day.

I think Fuji were a little more generous than Kodak, but it was ~ 20 years ago!

[nic_olas]

18 hours ago, c_watson1 said:

Can't see the point apart from self-congratulation of chiming on dead threads, especially when it involves cameras, like the F3, that effectively went out of production in the mid-90s. Nikon really couldn't service them past the early 2000s. Surviving indy repair shops do no better now.  Just stop the delusional blather unless you've something concrete to share. Just BS otherwise and zero value to PN.

Cheer up and let others do their thing, life can be more meaningful that way  perhaps shoot digital brand new cameras and leave the film threads be, if you think talking about and diagnosing/troubleshooting old film cameras is a waste of time. The Nikon F3 is as popular as ever, despite being out of production long ago. And people will still have thoughts, repairs, celebratory things around legacy gear!

Back to the thread - I'm running a roll through the F3 to blow out cobwebs and see how it exposes, handles and will go from there. If the counter is stuck @ 40 maybe that's okay for the price of $400 aud with MD-4 and flash adapter (they're around 500+ for body only here is Aus) if everything else works. Hmm!

 

[kmac]

Here's another old link that might answer your F3 question about the frame counter. The thread is only two posts long but the reply seems informative and it's also what I would have advised that you do. You won't really know what the problem is until the top cover is removed and the frame counter is inspected. It could be accumulated dirt, it could be jammed, a broken, worn, or bent part, or a displaced spring. Without removing the top cover, the only option is to dribble some lighter fluid past the re-set pin on the back that the door works. The idea of the lighter fluid is to loosen dirt and hopefully move it enough to free parts up. If that doesn't work, the top cover removal will be necessary for further inspection. 

[nic_olas]

3 hours ago, kmac said:

Here's another old link that might answer your F3 question about the frame counter. The thread is only two posts long but the reply seems informative and it's also what I would have advised that you do. You won't really know what the problem is until the top cover is removed and the frame counter is inspected. It could be accumulated dirt, it could be jammed, a broken, worn, or bent part, or a displaced spring. Without removing the top cover, the only option is to dribble some lighter fluid past the re-set pin on the back that the door works. The idea of the lighter fluid is to loosen dirt and hopefully move it enough to free parts up. If that doesn't work, the top cover removal will be necessary for further inspection. 

Thanks, I actually did take the top off and things looked okay in there - no dirt, nothing bent or looking wildly out of place. Maybe there's something I missed, the lever and column is very complex, don't want to mess with it and cause problems. The button is very stuck and won't budge. I will try some lighter fluid or acetone maybe to see if that helps set it free. I used ISO 98% which I assume would do a similar thing, but worth trying others. 

[c_watson1]

11 hours ago, nic_olas said:

Cheer up and let others do their thing, life can be more meaningful that way  perhaps shoot digital brand new cameras and leave the film threads be, if you think talking about and diagnosing/troubleshooting old film cameras is a waste of time. The Nikon F3 is as popular as ever, despite being out of production long ago. And people will still have thoughts, repairs, celebratory things around legacy gear!

Back to the thread - I'm running a roll through the F3 to blow out cobwebs and see how it exposes, handles and will go from there. If the counter is stuck @ 40 maybe that's okay for the price of $400 aud with MD-4 and flash adapter (they're around 500+ for body only here is Aus) if everything else works. Hmm!

 

Hilariously condescending--and clued out. These were pro cameras that often led hard working lives, which helps explain why so many are beat up and suffer from "issues" like yours--or worse. They were pricey and uncommon as amateur cameras. Frankly, I'd live without the counter. I'd also refrain from douching the innards with any liquids. Too many aged electronics and fragile ribbon circuits I suspect are way beyond your resources to repair or replace once busted. With no parts and scarce repair options, just shoot it till it breaks. With an MD-4, once dead it's an effective doorstop.

[nic_olas]

43 minutes ago, c_watson1 said:

Hilariously condescending--and clued out. These were pro cameras that often led hard working lives, which helps explain why so many are beat up and suffer from "issues" like yours--or worse. They were pricey and uncommon as amateur cameras. Frankly, I'd live without the counter. I'd also refrain from douching the innards with any liquids. Too many aged electronics and fragile ribbon circuits I suspect are way beyond your resources to repair or replace once busted. With no parts and scarce repair options, just shoot it till it breaks. With an MD-4, once dead it's an effective doorstop.

The tips appreciated, the aged electronics are something to be wary of. A mechanical Nikon F2 is the usual camera, but the F3 keeps coming up and begging to be given another chance. If the counter has no real effect other than tracking, it could be lived without I suppose!

[kmac]

17 hours ago, nic_olas said:

acetone

Whooah! I'd advise against acetone, it tends to soften paint and plastics, it will dissolve super glue even.

17 hours ago, nic_olas said:

The button is very stuck and won't budge

That sounds like a mechanical problem, it could have come out of place and got jammed at the inner end where it actually releases the counter and thereby preventing the counter dial from flying back to zero. You may not want to do it, but the top will have to come back off to see what's really going on with that "button". Most likely it will need prodding to get it back into place, and it's spring tension checked.

On 5/24/2006 at 10:03 PM, orfeas said:

and straightened slightly

bent back

This might be the reason the release button is kaput. Do you think the camera might have been dropped sometime in the past, or received a substantial knock ? How bad was it, was it bent out, or in ? If it was bent in, the door may have pushed the button in further than it's normal limit and the button got jammed tight in the works and jerks inside. If you can't easily get to the release button with the top cover off, perhaps you'll need to weigh up the economy of your love for the camera against the time and effort to repair it.

 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by kmac

[c_watson1]

17 hours ago, kmac said:

This might be the reason the release button is kaput. Do you think the camera might have been dropped sometime in the past, or received a substantial knock ? How bad was it, was it bent out, or in ? If it was bent in, the door may have pushed the button in further than it's normal limit and the button got jammed tight in the works and jerks inside. If you can't easily get to the release button with the top cover off, perhaps you'll need to weigh up the economy of your love for the camera against the time and effort to repair it.

 

Sadly this could be the problem. F3s took and sustained considerable damage but they would break. Though a manual focus camera, the F3 was shot through with electronics--just drop the bottom plate for peek sometime. The legendary F2 toughness was a bit compromised by circuitry crammed into the F3--part of the reason why pros, especially PJs, initially balked buying into the F3. That changed and its production run of around 15 years seems proof. The F3 discussed here may be damaged but functional otherwise. Still, I'd look into something like a FE/FE2 or FM series camera for a better chance of getting a fully functional camera--minus the F3 cachet.