terrestrikon Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 This is a pretty good thread. Heck, we live in a police state -- so what's new? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_limiti Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 I was in Manhattan last week and originally considered taking my camera in to look for some photo ops. When I came into the city on Monday I was shocked by the amount of police presence in and around the site of the RNC, as well as outer areas not evenly remotely connected to the RNC. It was obvious to me that by the amount of police on duty as well as the type of weapons being carried, that the brass had put out the word not to take any sh*t, and arrest when in doubt. Not wanting to get caught up in some sweep, the camera stayed home, and I stayed away from the RNC. Apparently I was not the only one feeling this way, as the city was relatively uncrowded last week, despite the RNC influx. Sorry to hear about your unfortunate situation. Even one of the Newsday photographers, who had been held captive in Iraq, was picked up by the PD and held overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absinthe Posted September 7, 2004 Author Share Posted September 7, 2004 Barry, you don't need a permit to protest if you are under groups of 20 in a park or if you are on the city sidewalks, not blocking traffic & not occupying more than 1/2 the sidewalk space. We were not in a park, but on a city street, well within the confines of the law. I was plasticuffed too tightly for 4 hours and am suffering nerve damage on my thumbs. I requested the cuffs to be replaced by looser ones & was refused until my fingers started turning black & blue & a medic, who was locked up too, more or less told the cops I would loose my fingers if they weren't removed right away. I was then refused medical treatment for my wrists which were heavily swollen. I am on the class action lawsuit already filed about the refusal of medical treatment that was rampant throughout. There are also several lawsuits in the works for the conditions, the city's failure to comply to the writ of habeas corpus that was filed, and a smaller suit for my arrested party is in the works for false arrest. I also refused the ACD offered & got a desk appearance ticket which I will plead not guilty to in October. This will cost the city oogles of money & rightfully so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 What a waste treating people like this so that a pre-scripted infomercial game show can run without a hitch. They should've held their convention in Nebraska. You'd have been better off going to the beach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absinthe Posted September 7, 2004 Author Share Posted September 7, 2004 the beach? sheeit, the shore would have been much nicer than an oil caked floor :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmo Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 <i>This will cost the city oogles of money & rightfully so.</i> <p> Should read; <i>This will cost the <u>taxpayers</u> oogles of money & rightfully so.</i> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissa_eiselein Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 It is important to have people who speak out for what they believe. It is also important to have photographers who document people speaking out, cops getting out of hand, etc. I wasn't there, but I have a really hard time believing that all 1,800 protesters were peacefully minding their own business and not causing any problems. If there were a few people getting out of hand and the cops were concerned that it could escalate (which these things often do) then the cops rightfully asked people to disperse. If not, then there's an even bigger problem than I originally thought. Either way, it sounds as though the cops were caught up in the situation. They shouldn't be allowed to run roughshod over anyone and everyone they choose. I hope this experience and the subsequent lawsuits teach them a lesson or two. And perhaps the people who attended might have learned a few lessons themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_bedell Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 "i don't mean to sound harsh or insensitive, but you had it coming. the public was warned about how intense the security will be and if you ignore that and put yourself into that situation, i'm sorry but i think you deserved it. if i was there and got arrested, handcuffed, or even beaten, that would be all my fault." You might want to check the mirror. You've got some of Stalin's short and curlies stuck between your teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelging Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 I am not sure what to say after reading all this. I am sad that we live in a country, where our civil right are being stomped on at every turn. Who we are,who we talk to ,what we believe,where we live,where we fly to ,what we take pictures of,who we criticize.That we are not patriotic, if we don't agree with the people in power.It seems that since 9-11 that we as Americans, have sometimes slowly ,and sometimes very quickly have given up our freedoms.Freedoms that I, and others fought for in the past 225+ years.This seems more evident almost every day.I can understand why people feel the need to protest,and I understand that when people are oppressed they have to over react to get their point heard.This I am sure is a scary thing for a police dept to deal with,especially when you are talking about hundreds of thousand people.I would not want to be a policeman,having to try and control a crowd that big.I think that because people have not been alowed to be heard,they no longer feel that they can talk about what they feel is wrong with our country ,they must now scream for their voice to be heard.The media photographers and anyone with a camera who recorded what happend was bearing witness to the unfolding events.This is a important part of a Free country.It documents the events,for both the protesters and the police.It gives us, and history, a way of putting a event into perspective.I too am sorry, Heather, that you had to go through what you did. The fact that you are telling your story to us and to a court someday,might change the way events like this are handled.Change that needs to happen, usally does not come without a price.I hope the price you are paying now ,makes a differene in the future.Would I take photos of a event like this? How could anyone not? My understnding of the civil rights movement in the 1960's,is a direct result of photographs taken of Blacks being hit with water cannons and attacked by dogs.If these photos were not taken because of a persons personal embarassment,think of the lessons lost by people who never would have seen these photos.I don't think we have to worry about our enemies stealing our rights,it seems we are willing to give them up without a fight.Evil triumphs when good men do nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny_liao Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 you put yourself into that situation. nobody forced you. you got caught and you got busted. don't cry about it. yes, you had the right. yes, we live in the US where freedom is free. but you were amongst people who chose to cross the line and you got caught in it and got busted along with them. i bet you had the chance to step away, but you didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
constance_cook Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Anytime a president comes to town, you get gridlock and complete areas are shut down. It was great fun here because the Clinton's came in and out of Chicago A LOT and traffic was a mess and people were not permitted to just wander into the area. It ahppens with all of them. It is just too hard to adequately protect a president with hoards of people around. Protest with your vote, one way or the other. God forbid we should ever have another political convention here. It seems unlikely given the way the last one turned out. Conni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_bedell Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Heather, you should suck it up and get over being photographed. In the grand scheme of what happened, it's nothing. Being arrested without cause and detained for an unreasonably--and illegally--long time IS something to get worked up over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Being photographed is okay. Comes with the territory when we make ourselves public figures, if only for a day. I would have photographed protesters and people being arrested, even if they asked me to stop. I would have expected to be photographed and would have tried to swallow any embarrassment I might have felt. Photojournalists are there to document what's happening because they have an obligation to all Americans to record events for posterity. It's harder for politicians, law enforcement, the military and anyone in authority to lie about events when they're being recorded. Suppose you had been taken into custody and were never seen again. It's happened countless times in other countries. At least if you're photographed there's a better chance that someone will have evidence of where you were last seen. Being abused is not okay. Abuse of authority. Abuse of your person. It represents a frightening decline in America, ironically juxtaposed against would-be leaders pretending to uphold American values. It's all doublespeak. President Clinton once was quoted as having said that he would be the last freely elected president. It may have been hyperbole used to imply criticism of conservatism and the Republican Party. But it's interesting that with each passing Presidential electoral season we are presented with fewer choices. By now the party conventions are a formality - the presidential nominee for the party is chosen long beforehand, even before the campaigns officially began. How long before the elections are a mere formality? Photographers and journalists must record events and must show what they've seen, however embarrassing this may seem to those who are the subjects of media scrutiny and however unpalatable it may seem to the readers and viewers at the time. You're right to sue. Good luck with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmo Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 <i>You're right to sue. Good luck with that.</i> <p> The American way. Whoops, just spilt my coffee... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 You deserved it Heather, just like the Civil Rights marchers deserved to be beaten in the south, and just like protesting students at Kent State deserved to be shot dead. The federal and local governments are to be trusted at every turn, they've never committed atrocities, never killed or mistreated people for no good reason. Every action is taken in the name of freedom, don't forget. Every other nation is lesser or evil. The USA has a right to protect themselves and their way of life. In the USA you can vote for a president who won't hold anyone of his staff responsible for Abu Graihb. You want that, someone who will stand up and protect your right to keep driving your Hummer, no matter what happens to those people over in Iraq. It's just tough shit for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leslie_cheung Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 >>>>>we live in the US where freedom is free<<<<< You are either delusional or way undereduacated guy. Freedom always have a price. Go take American history 101 for starters. you talk alot of shit for someone that snipes with long teles. As for taking photos, people have the rights to shoot protesters as much as protesters have the rights to protest. Having said that, personal ethics always come into play. Don't feel comfortable shooting, don't press the shutter. Don't feel comfortable being shot at, stay home. There are other forms of dissent and protest without hitting the street if you fear the police or PJs. As someone that have been to numerous protests as a photographer and protester. I have to say police target "anachists" first then comes people with videocams and still photogs. Having a press pass may not always do you good, it may actually draw you more attention to be targeted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary_woodard Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 constance, protest with your vote, both men support attacking and occupying a soveign nation and they are really pissed, where is my choice, its rigged, get a grip, god save the idiot king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmo Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Wow Ray, pretty harsh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary_woodard Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 I recently saw a photo of some Iraqi "insurgents" armed in an alley in Sadr city, which looked frightenly similiar to a photo I saw of some French resistance fighters in World War II, my God what are we doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Insurgents is another word for citizens. www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leslie_cheung Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 A little OT but getting good protest photos is tough. Go over to the Magnum site and you'll see many bland rnc photos shot by accomplished Magnum caliber photogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_elder1 Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Doesn't anybody remember the Democratic convention in CHICAGO, WAY back when? Not much has changed! Heather you should sue! The true test of whether you want to pursue the illegal arrest and assault on you will be when you are offered that chunk of money to settle the case. Or will you do the right thing and take it to trial and really make these facist cops embarrased. Notice that after you have been illegally arrested how few lawyer jokes are told in lock up. If it wasn't for lawyers, you would not be able to address your complaints. As to photographing the event and ALL aspects of the event including arrestees who don't want to be arrested, all is fair game to the photog, like it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_elder1 Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 PS also the photog becomes "game" fair or not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack_lo_..._t_o Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 I love the people who are writing up police irresponsibility as "life isn't fair" or you were "fair game". The behaviour of police toward those who are in opposition to the governing party is a criterium of a free or an unfree society. Heather your name is in The Village Voice in an Honour Roll of the 2000 arrestees during the RNC. Current issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Protesters + Police = a highly non-linear system. Doesn't take much push on either side before it goes third-order and stability is lost. It's always been that way. www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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