brian_e Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Heather - sorry to hear about your ordeal. As far as the ethics go - I think you will be able to find someone with an opinion on the matter at every step in the spectrum from "dirtbag paparazzi" to "respectful artiste" (you can see my personal bias from the adjectives). There is no generally accepted social norm on this one. Some people think that a public image of an individual in no way belongs to that individual. Others will say using an image of an individual is taking something from that individual and that permission should be given. Each individual photog has to make the choice for himself based upon his own personal values. Where that deviates from the subject's personal values, there will be conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absinthe Posted September 7, 2004 Author Share Posted September 7, 2004 I know that there is no social rule on what one should do. I really am confused as I normally would be photographing too. Perhaps right now I am just empathetic with those girls because I was there experiencing it. perhaps after some time, my empathy will take a more appropriate place in the background. Perhaps I would photograph that situation if I was a professional photographer. I don't think I could just for my own ya ya's anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant_. Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 anyone who one who on their own attends a protest chooses to be there. i have no sympathy for people that decide to be in that situation, when whine about it later......like i said its part of the game...if you dont like it, dont go.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant_. Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 when=then whine about it later.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_somerset1 Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Heather, when you have an event like this and a bunch of spiky-haired anarchists get arrested, it's hardly news. When some kid who took civics class seriously and decided to go carry a sign down the street, or some guy who just stopped to ask directions in the wrong place gets arrested, that's news. Thus my merciless view toward the scared kids. (And this of course assumes that I'm taking pix as a journalist, rather than as a tourist.) That photo probably won't run, because the editor wants the bleeding cop and the spiky-haired anarchist. But I persist in believing that records matter. When history holds its final accounting, be sure your pix will find you out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markci Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 <i>the public was warned about how intense the security will be and if you ignore that and put yourself into that situation, i'm sorry but i think you deserved it. </i> <p> And nitwits who haven't a clue about the Bill of Rights deserve to live in a police state. Try China or Cuba -- you'll love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absinthe Posted September 7, 2004 Author Share Posted September 7, 2004 The anarchists were in the minority. Grant... its ok to arrest people for going out of their way to obey the law & protest legally? If a cop came & arrested you for the content of your photography, would that be OK? because its the same thing & just as rediculous. Is it OK to break a few wrists from over-tightening plasticuffs on those who weren't resisting arrest? Where do you draw the line at whats OK for the police to do? To blatently hold people for well over the 24 hours that they are allowed to? (which they were fined $1000 per person for). Were people asking for that? Even those who did do civil disobedience? Did the photogs who got swept up & had their media destroyed deserve it too? What about the woman I met who was swept up coming out of a store? Or the guy who was just trying to walk home? What the police did was highly illegal & if speaking out against it is generally considered wining, then perhaps this country deserves to live under millitary rule after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant_. Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 fact is people cant do whatever the hell they want every single time.....when the prez came into town the streets were locked down and blocked off to normal traffic to let him through....do you think he should sit in traffic like the rest of us just because theyre 'public' streets? thats just the way it is...dont like it, dont be there...its that simple... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absinthe Posted September 7, 2004 Author Share Posted September 7, 2004 Even my Uber Republican father who was commanding officer at Brooklyn Central Booking for over 5 years is outraged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant_. Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 if youre just trying to walk home and you walk directly into the giant crowds of protesters and police, rights or no rights, your just an idiot at that point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant_. Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 btw, you should brush up on some laws....you dont seem to know em too well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absinthe Posted September 7, 2004 Author Share Posted September 7, 2004 We weren't blocking traffic... that would be against the law. The deligates were free to pass. But you don't get to saunter through life with gags over peoples mouths even if your president Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant_. Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 heh, whatever....you took your chances, gained some and lost some...chalk it up to experience and move on for the wiser... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absinthe Posted September 7, 2004 Author Share Posted September 7, 2004 I was arrested with 15 people, Grant. We weren't blocking traffic or using amplified sound or throwing anything. We weren't taking up even 1/3 of the sidewalk (we are entitled to 1/2). We did nothing against the law. We didn't even have signs (which we are allowed as long as its not attached to wood) YOU need to brush up on the law as I am well versed on it & have been for some time & know what is legal & what isn't. Guess the mistake we made was daring to speak our minds on a sidewalk in the city. I guess its not OK for someone to expect to be able to walk down the block they live on. Guess he should have moved for the day because the police were busy arresting people on his block. (he imply asked the cop to go through to get to his apartment & was promptly arrested, probably because he had long hair) Guess that woman shouldn't have dared to leave the store she was in because the police were barricading people in that street & she didn't see it though the store windows. Oh, the Prez is in town... lock yourselves inside & don't shop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absinthe Posted September 7, 2004 Author Share Posted September 7, 2004 What about the amount of photogs who were arrested? Seems that press passes to get out of jail were subject to who the press pass was for. Almost all the non-indymedia photogs I spoke with were freelancers & a few were with Salon & other online mags. Those with the major papers or those with police press passes were released promptly. Who's credentials are legit & who's aren't? Would you consider indymedia credentials legit? If not, why? <p>Personally, I think press passes should be issued to anyone who can prove legit publication & freelancers should be eligable for a police press pass if they apply ahead of time (most said they were denyed). I don't believe Indymedia press credentials to be legit because all one has to do is go to thir website & print one out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 I thought you were asking if photographs should have been taken (of the girls)? There seems to be another purpose to your post... www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen_martin2 Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 I want to say to those who protested peacefuly. I'm proud of you. It does not matter if it was a republican or a demicrat in the WhiteHouse. I want the people to voice thier oppionins and especily when the prez and other politiction want listen. Keep it up and cary this as a badge of honor. just as the movement in 60s made change come about, so will this. I use to investigate police and for the most part they are corupted by our politicion and the stupid reteric that comes out of thier mounth. back to the origianl question. I think it is un-ethical for a PJ to aggrivate the sitiuation. this is not getting the true story when the people start focusing thier attiention on you as the photographer. I think the PJ should step back until the attention is focused back onto the story they are thier covering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claudia__ Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 brad, if you look up at her original post you will see she also asked for opinions on the arrest of so many photographers. no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhooru Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Yeah, move on with your life, you weren't beaten and they had a lot of people to sort out, but at the end of the day they have to ultimately follow rules as well. If you get near a protest you run the risk of getting caught in the net, true and that's a risk. Particularly if the protest did not have a permit. (did it?) It doesn't mean that when the day is done the police don't have to be responsible for their overreaction. I'm sure, given the situation faced, they'd much rather deal with a bunch of minor civil rights law suits then have a major incident blow-up (no pun intended) in their face. And they wanted to squelch any chance of things getting out of hand instantly, so they tagged everything that moved, rightly or wrongly. So get your attorney and get a few bucks for your trouble if you can. Just realize, that it probably won't be difficult for the officers to articulate a probable cause for a detention, if not an arrest just for the fact of you being there given a reasonable fear that the matter could escalate rapidly and they needed to control it as a matter of public safety. Were you cited? If not you were just detained. It takes much less to justify a detention. I'd say get over it personally, but join in the class action if you think this sets a serious threat to civil liberties by law enforcement. That is not whining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 quiche- well, yes, but mentioned almost anecdotally at the end of her lengthy post. People carrying cameras should be immune for some reason? Was responding to her subject line. Do you disagree there's no other agenda behind the post? www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claudia__ Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 ok, i'll bite. what <i>IS</i> the agenda behind the post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary_woodard Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Danny, i think you might want to check the constitution and bill of rights, we actually have the right to assemble and protest, really, some people actually died for our right to protest, if you are not allowed peaceful protest then the constitution suggests you take down your government. get a grip danny its for real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulr Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Reminds me of the Nixon years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 quiche: To talk about her experience of being arrested in a major demonstration? Otherwise the post could have been: During the RNC demonstrations I witnessed some really aggressive photogs snapping pix of protesters after they were picked up and arrested - some were even young girls who pleaded that this photographing stop. Was that proper and ethical behavior on the photog's part to keep shooting? www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claudia__ Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 oh, well shucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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