Look out Sony AR-7, Canon is comming ...

Discussion in 'Canon EOS' started by hjoseph7, Sep 4, 2018.

  1. Vincent Peri

    Vincent Peri Metairie, LA

    I've been following the thread here on Nikon's new mirrorless camera and how it's being ripped up for, among other things, having only 1 battery slot. I see Canon may also have one slot for the battery. Let's see if Canon gets ripped for that here.

    Hmm... probably the Canon
    will be called the greatest
    mirrorless camera ever...
    charles_escott_new likes this.
  2. One battery slot? LOL
  3. Vincent Peri

    Vincent Peri Metairie, LA

    Ah, I meant memory card slots... D'oh!
  4. At the risk of interloping from the Nikon side (I do own some Canon gear, honest), the first body announced seems interesting, if not exactly ground-breaking - kind of in line with the 5DIV, although that camera's been on the market for a while. 5fps with autofocus isn't all that hot, but then the Nikon Z series are similarly limited if you want autoexposure and live view. Canon seem to have shot for the gap between the Nikon Z6 and Z7 (in terms of specs and pricing); I wonder if they pushed out something based on the 5DIV innards so as not to let Nikon sit on their own (well, with Sony) for a bit, but have something more radical in mind for next year?

    While I'm happy using XQD, I do see a lot of merit in UHS-II SD as an option with compatibility, especially until CFExpress takes off. (I have one UHS-II card for my D850, but I know that if I run out of space I can put in one of my UHS-I cards.) The release blurb seems to say a lot of good things about the autofocus. I'll be interested to see what reviews have to say - as with all these announcements.

    28-70 f/2, eh? I guess (being the "old" zoom mid-range) it's more useful than Sigma's 24-35mm f/2, but I've got to say I like being able to hit 24mm.
  5. Lets call the currently announced first cameras "indicators that Canikon might get
    - No clue about the single card slots. Did they use them to tell any disappointed pro "We clearly marked this as a consumer / enthusiasts' toy. - How did you dare to buy it at all?"
    I don't really care; I don't shoot weddings, card failures were harmless so far and I see still enough folks toting single slotted bodies to not overly fuzz about that feature. (i.e. I did not buy a wide zoom to use on my 5D IV, since OMG! you can't shoot single slotted bodies these days).
    Doesn't it even drop to 3FPS with AF tracking according to dpreview?
    My big question is: Will the R mount 24-105 be better than the EF counterpart around it's long end? In that case the EOS R might look tempting to me. Otherwise I'll wait for a light stabilized portrait prime to go with the 35/1.8. and of course reviews and comparisons.
    Anyhow: The EOS R doesn't look too bad for somebody dissapointed by the 6D II. Were adapter prices announced yet?
    Mark Keefer and Andrew Garrard like this.
  6. LOL good to see some idiocy never ceases... Specifically the 'single card' complaint...
  7. I wonder how many of us with dual slot cameras walk round with just one memory card in place.
  8. I have two cards in my cameras. When I owned a 6D I experienced a card malfunction and lost 4 hours of shooting the Day of Rock in Denver. This was very disappointing. I couldn't imagine having this happen if shooting a wedding. It would be risky for a pro. Still if using good quality high-end fast cards and you swap cards often, maybe.. I am not clear on what type of SD slot this is, the older cards or UHS-II?

    The camera looks pretty nice and is at a good price point, I don't mind it would need an adaptor, in fact the one adaptor has a lens ring that could be set up for f-stop which would be cool. And I like the new black display on top of the camera and the articulating screen. But I am not sure if it is enough to get someone to sell their new Sony A7RIII with Metabones adaptor to come back. There are things I think are short comings like where is the joy stick or the back ring. That back control looks more like something from the original 6D. While this looks like a nice camera, this looks like the entry level Full Frame Mirrorless and not the Pro Model.

    This is the first of two new Canon cameras, I am hoping Canon's next will be a dual memory slot using the fastest cards, with joy stick, higher res, a real Pro Model Camera built to meet the demands of professional. I am not trading in my 5D MK IV or the Sony A7RIII for this one, perhaps the next camera will be the one, I am hoping and I still need to see the reviews.
  9. Glad to see it arrive and should do well to stem some of the switch-over to Sony A series cameras (especially the 24mp models). It is certainly not a 5D mk IV replacement, but has an appeal over a 6DII, especially if the 30MP sensor DR is substantially the same as the 5D mk IV. Lack of IBIS may be a significant mistake since practically all other mirrorless cameras have it now and also use it to enhance the IS built into their lenses. Non stabilized 28-70 F2 and fast primes may not be as advantageous as somewhat slower stabilized lenses, or similar lenses on IBIS cameras (the competition). Given the incompatibility between RF and the M system (except they both can use EF lenses), I believe that the M will at some point be an orphan system as the RF lens system grows and they introduce a APSC high performance RF cameras.
    Jochen and Mark Keefer like this.
  10. The original A7 that I still use wasn,t stabilised, not long before they sorted that out. My first A7 was sold as a base for adaptors, now Sony lenses have taken over from classic lenses. The A7 mutated in to different specialised cameras, I would guess history will repeat itself. If you need full frame mirrorless you probably already own a Sony, stay with it and in three years time you can choose between excellent systems by Sony, Nikon, Canon and Panasonic, great for those people surely.
  11. It's UHS-II.

    For what it's worth, I usually have two cards in my cameras - recording JPEG to SD and raw to CF/XQD. If I need to get at the image in a hurry, a lot of laptops have an SD card slot so I can get a visible image off. I process the raw files on a machine for which I expect to have the card reader, so I use the higher speed on the bigger files.

    I've shot raw + raw at a wedding (it's been suggested that the rest of the camera could still go wrong, but this doesn't preclude a second body as backup, and you're more likely to notice other failures). Once I ran out of UHS SD cards and ended up with a class 10 in there, the buffer started to take nearly a minute to clear - but at least I'd not run out of storage.

    While both Nikon's and Canon's first offerings seem competent, I suspect we'll see later bodies with substantial improvements from both - notably in things like maintaining viewfinder updates in high speed shooting. As a D850 owner, I'm not lusting after a Z7; I'm not surprised that 5DIV owners aren't necessarily jumping on this. I suspect both companies may have been walking the line in not torpedoing their dSLR bread winners until they know whether the system will succeed, but they'll fix limitations over time. Others have suggested that the 28-70 f/2 seems to be a lens you'd put on a higher-end body than the first release. It feels a little like both Canon and Nikon would have liked Photokina to be next year, to give them more development time for the big launch.

    I suspect Canon might switch to CFexpress once the cards are available, at least at the high end. The moment consumer cameras start recording 8K, there's going to be more pressure on storage. In the short term, I'm happy Nikon went with an XQD/SD pair in the D850 - image review from a high-end XQD card is blisteringly quick, but when I'm out of space I can still stuff cheap SD cards in there, and rely on being able to find a replacement if I have an issue on holiday. I'm a little more nervous about either mirrorless option there, but only a little.
  12. Good to know, the UHS-II will just have faster transfer speeds and write speeds.

    I agree a second body is a must, but still losing all images off one camera, especially if it is your primary camera would be a disaster shooting a wedding. :eek: A second camera body would work provided you are using it through the entire wedding. Which camera had the first kiss kind of thing.

    I agree, they appear to be nice cameras and they will be great for some photographers needs. They would have appealed to me a few years ago, I am not referring to the mirrorless aspect, but just single card slot. I think these are solid mirrorless equivalents for today's state of the art entry level full frame cameras. They look awesome. But already owning two dual card slot higher-end cameras, I am not stepping backwards.

    I would have preferred waiting for a better offering, but I can understand their need to respond to what Sony is doing to their market share.

    Being able to grab some readily available UHS SD cards with an 85+ megabyte/sec + write speed at any Wal-Mart, BestBuy or drug store is really good if you find you forgot to pack your extra cards and you are far from home.

    As far as the 8K video, I think computer manufacturers need to step up and offer machines with large capacity solid state drives that are fast enough to process 4K video let alone 8K, it seems they all are going for smaller screens, one or two ports and a 250 gig or 500 gig SSD. Hardly enough to store your operating system and a few basic programs, let alone handle photos and video files. But this is a subject for another discussion.
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2018
    Andrew Garrard likes this.
  13. Having IBIS on the Sony A7RIII and using all my non IS Canon lenses and Sigma lenses with the Metabones V is like getting all of those lenses upgraded.
    While I got by without it for years on those lenses, it sure is a nice perk that Canon is not offering and everyone else is. :confused: Makes no sense, it would be like Toyota being the only manufacturer of cars with no shock absorbers and no power steering. I want to feel every bump in the road isn't a persuasive selling point.o_O
  14. I'm a wedding photographer....Canon everything for me....and I'm just itching to check out the EOS R system. It looks awesome!!

    However, I'm reading the specs on Canon USA and what I find disappointing is how one has to dig into the specs to find out how many memory card slots the R will have available. Furthermore, the spec sheet does NOT say how many slots it has, only that it takes SD/SDHC/SDXC cards! What?? I highly suspect that the EOS R will only offer up one slot like the Nikon Z. This is just unbelievable!! ........I can't even fathom why Canon is serving up such a juicy full frame mirror-less camera without DUAL CARD SLOTS! Maybe I'm wrong, but if it had two memory slots, wouldn't that be highlighted along with all the other bells and whistles the R system features??

    There was a time when I shot weddings with cameras that had one card slot and that was STRESS on top of STRESS, but there is NO WAY I'm going to ever do that again. If I got to keep using my Mark IV and III for the foreseeable future, so be it. I'll see you on that auction site where I'll be buying spare DSLR's on the cheap when everyone else starts selling them to get the EOS R system!
  15. I can understand why wedding photographers insist on a dual card slot . How many professional wedding photographers are there? Is the figure likely to be a very, very small percentage of the customer base for enthusiast cameras?. If Canon and Nikon don,t sell any of the new cameras to these pros will they care, if they are sold out for the next year to everyday shooters?. Don,t most pros use high end dslr,s rather than mirrorless? Charles.
  16. How many "everyday" shooters are there that carry around $3000+ cameras everywhere they go? Or how many will be willing to spend several thousand $$$ on a new system right now? Tourists tend to use consumer DSLR's or P&S's or, more and more, just their phones. How many mirror less cameras will they sell to this crowd.....rhetorically speaking.

    And yes, the vast majority of the wedding shooters I work with and encounter all use Canon SLR's, couple of Nikon folks, but there's only been a tiny few wedding shooters I've come across that shoot Sony mirrorless cameras and God bless 'em I guess. I never had an inkling of desire to jump on the Sony bandwagon and would probably not ever go all mirrorless anyway, for a variety of reasons. However, I am very intrigued by Canon's full frame EOS R mirrorless system and perhaps would have entertained buying one as my second camera.....some shiny new tech, still use my current L lenses, save a little weight on my harness and all that jazz. No dual card slots? Not buying.

    So if many of the thousands of other wedding and event shooters out there feel like I do about insisting on dual card slots, then that's a lot of potential sales that might not happen. I dunno, I think Canon and Nikon should care about that. Of course, SLR's will still be available for years to come, so they'll make their sales that way from professional shooters, but still......
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2018
  17. I should say that I'm very much an amateur, and very much the only time I shot two cards in backup was the one time I was the primary photographer at a friend's wedding. (My wife was second-shooting with the backup body, so we did have most moments from two angles.) I still use both shots a lot as an amateur, but it's "nice to have" rather than critical for me - as some commentators have said, card failures are very rare these days compared with everything else that can go wrong.

    Nikon seem to be catering to the moderate-to-high-end enthusiast crowd with the first launches - the Z7 is a "D850 for people who want a mirrorless body" (and all that entails), and the Z6 is the same relative to the D750. The Eos R seems to split the difference, landing somewhere between the 5DIV and 6DII. As Canon proved with the 5DII, however many pros there are who want lots of pixel integrity in a robust body, there are a lot more amateurs wanting a portable camera that can take a really high quality landscape. They're not going to sell in the quantities that the APS-C sensor bodies do (at least unless these feel a lot of pressure from 1" compacts, improving phones, and any sudden resurgence of micro 4/3), but they have a reasonable mark-up to contribute to profits, and there are enough moderately wealthy (or willing to owe money, in my case) middle class amateurs out there that they sell. Thom Hogan reports that the second most profitable camera to Nikon after the D3400 is the D850; I've seen several people with D8x0 bodies out and about, and I know several amateurs with 5D bodies. Don't underestimate the affluent enthusiast! The market segment between the sub-$1000 "soccer mum" budget option and the Leica/medium format "anything at any price" crowd is substantial.

    For most, a single slot isn't a deal breaker (and a lot of Eos R bodies will probably get cheap UHS-I cards stuffed in them part of the time; Nikon's "all XQD" strategy is... "courageous", and potentially a nasty surprise to some switchers). The Eos R's UHS-II slot would at least meet my "something I can stuff in a laptop without a dedicated reader" requirement, but unless it makes much better use of the UHS-II interface than the D850 does, I'm a little concerned about access speeds - and more laptops are losing their SD slots these days. Having wifi in the camera offsets the need a bit. Bear in mind that only one of the slots on the A7RIII is UHS-II, and the camera isn't keen on you using the other one.

    I'm sure a later high-end model in both manufacturers' ranges will have more redundancy (however it's implemented). I'd brace for the pain I went through when the storage interface got upgraded for the D850, though (lots of CF cards that would be useless if I didn't keep a backup D810). The wedding market is clearly there; a more refined body which maintains silent shooting (and probably a more substantial battery or integrated grip) would fill it. But for now, I suspect Canikon are more worried about the A7 and A7r than the A9, at least for initial launch. In the mean time, we still have our dSLRs, and it'll be a while before they go away.
    Thomas J. and charles_escott_new like this.

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