Kodachrome 64 Price Gouging at B&H ??

Discussion in 'Film and Processing' started by shawn_rahman, Jun 22, 2009.

  1. Well - I suppose an increase from $8.50/roll yesterday to over $11.00/roll really is not as bad as can be, but I note that B&H seemingly changed their price right after the news was announced. Although it is apparently out of stock as of this evening, this is not something I would expect B&H to be doing.

    I love B&H and will continue to shop there because I've always had great experiences with them, but this is slightly disappointing.
     
  2. Supply and Demand... Obama knows this...... Blame no one but the law of Supply and Demand.
     
  3. is it possible that kodak is selling the last of kodachrome for higher price? does anybody know?
     
  4. I ordered 3 rolls from Adorama this morning for $7.99 each (standard KR64). Although B&H was out of stock, I did notice that the price was higher than other times I'd checked.
    ...and I just checked B&H again and it is higher than this morning. At about 9:00am Pacific it was $9.95. Adorama has also raised their price to $9.49 during the day and is now out of stock.
     
  5. If they are do you blame them? I don't it is my fault I did not order it yesterday .....
     
  6. yeh, whoever it is it's understandable - why not make a few extra thousands very quickly?
     
  7. Supply is now limited. So of course the price will rise. Econ 101.
     
  8. I just ordered it at a little less than what you all are saying... back ordered but locked into the price when it is delivered. I can wait all year.. I have untill the end of 2010 . Or close to it LOL
     
  9. I was unclear, from the article I read, if everything had been produced and it was a done deal, or if they planned to produce the film a bit longer. I.e., is what's on the market all there ever will be, or will there be additional stock manufactured for awhile.
     
  10. The master reel is not all un-cut It will be released until it runs out.. then it is all gone. Kodak predicts the last cutting of it will be in October.
     
  11. I ordered from Adorama this morning at $7.99, having checked B&H, who were out-of-stock. But- the film at B&H for $12-13 was the professional, I believe, whereas that at Adorama was consumer. Looking around the web, it looked like the pro version was running about $3/roll more than consumer.
    According to the Kodak product manager on Inside Analog (or Digital) Radio podcast, not much difference if you're not shooting in a studio and/or under very controlled conditions. Given it has only 18 months of life, probably not a big deal.
     
  12. Isn't it amazing how easy it is to justify a rapid price increase: ie supply&demand, yet the demand for film by most estimates was on the decline since the digital boom, yet the price of film stayed the same or went higher!!!! Where was the s&d then? Oh, I know, cost of production; yeah right....
     
  13. Rich... I have Stock in Fiat... Want some of that PT Cruser they just got on Fire Sale? Rich.... If you had something like the last glass of clean water after you just drank 3 of them and another man needed water... you did not give it to him you were not only evil but a gouger. If he had muddy water to drink then you are not a gouger just evil.
    Nothing bad here ... Why did you not buy it Friday?
     
  14. Speaking of supply and demand, at least the processing is also being discontinued at the end of 2010. That way, people can't horde it and sell it for 10x the cost on eBay.
     
  15. They can sell it at high cost on Ebay between when the film supply runs out and when the processing stops.
     
  16. Simple answer. Don't pay their price. Do without like you have for the last few years.
     
  17. It's almost good that they raised the price. That way the horders won't buy it all up.
     
  18. Saw on the news that Kodachcrome is being discontinued. The photographer that will have the last roll, will be the National Geographic photog that shot that famous Afgan girl decades ago.
     
  19. Steve McCurry
     
  20. Saw on the news that Kodachcrome is being discontinued. The photographer that will have the last roll, will be the National Geographic photog that shot that famous Afgan girl decades ago.​
    Actually, I believe that the very last rolls will go to the Eastman House for posterity. But McCurry will have one of the last few to come out of the factory to shoot. Of course, I'm sure that will happen sometime in 2009 and many of us will have some supplies we are using up for quite a bit longer than that.
     
  21. I think you should also get at least 1 too Josh. But then you would shoot it like it was ment to be used and not let to get moldy as may happen in a museum.
     
  22. Posted by Larry Dressler , Jun 22, 2009; 10:23 p.m.
    Rich... I have Stock in Fiat... Want some of that PT Cruser they just got on Fire Sale? Rich.... If you had something like the last glass of clean water after you just drank 3 of them and another man needed water... you did not give it to him you were not only evil but a gouger. If he had muddy water to drink then you are not a gouger just evil. Nothing bad here ... Why did you not buy it Friday?
    Larry - I think everyone understands your POV. You have posted it above about 4 times now: "the law of supply and demand makes everything OK". From a purely economic perspective, what you say about price gouging is right. In the same way that, for example, from a purely economic perspective selling toxic waste to poor countries who will take if off your hands cheap is fine. However, from a human perspective, both practices are disreputable.
    Your example of the glass of water is of course BS. The last rolls of Kodachrome that a retailer has in stock are not remotely the same as the last glass of water that a man holds. If a retailer was making a good profit from selling Kodachrome at $X yesterday, they will still make a good profit from selling their last rolls at $X today. Life goes on. Pushing up the price simply because they can is profiteering pure and simple. It is greed. It is true that businesses need to make a profit to survive, but that profit is already built into the normal retail price of Kodachrome.
    The time will eventually come when people will realise that the creed of economics can no longer be the answer to everything. I hope to be around when they do. It will mean a lot of economists out of work and quite a few greedy a-holes having to adjust to a slightly different way of life. Both good things.
     
  23. David; Karl Marx predicted what you said a while ago, last I checked he's dead, along with the Soviet Union. If people aren't happy with the price of Kodachrome they can simply buy alternative goods such as Velvia or Astia. Would I like a 5D MKII for a 100 dollars? Sure I would, but thats not my call. Accusing a great business like BH of profiteering is a pretty nasty accusation.
    I find it hilarious that people never talk about social justice until they want something and can't afford it. This is film we're talking about here, not life and death politics.
     
  24. bms

    bms

    OK, I am not even going to get into a discussion of Marxism vs Capitalism here :>
    Someone on Amazon is selling it for $24.95, "reduced" down from $49.95.... LOL.
    I just ordered a few rolls at Adorama, as the price will probably go up. Interestingly, PKR is still the same I think, but out of stock, too :(
     
  25. Ryan, I am not accusing anyone of profiteering. I don't know what B&H are charging, as I do not need to buy any Kodachrome and have not looked. I am simply saying that Larry's (much repeated) view of the world seems to be an unfortunate one. (And if B&H are in fact gouging, perhaps they are not as great a business as you think.)

    Not sure what Marx has to do with what I posted... The world is not a black and white place, Ryan. It is possible to embrace a profitable business model without profiteering. Believe it or not, some profitable businesses used to run that way. Some still do, probably even in the good ol' US! It does not involve embracing a socialist economy. It just involves an ethical stance that does not place the dollar above every other consideration.

    You are right that most people don't complain until they personally are affected. That's why businesses continue to get away with this sort of thing... because Joe public doesn't care much until he finally works out that he personally is being screwed. Film is just one of many commodities. You may not understand it, but business practices regarding commodity pricing are a significant matter. Do you ever buy anything, Ryan?

    I can certainly afford Kodachrome, but I rarely use the stuff.
     
  26. "Isn't it amazing how easy it is to justify a rapid price increase: ie supply&demand, yet the demand for film by most estimates was on the decline since the digital boom, yet the price of film stayed the same or went higher!!!! Where was the s&d then? Oh, I know, cost of production; yeah right...."
    What about the price of plywood in hurricane ravaged areas? Limited short-term supply, so prices spike. People ration because of the price mechanism. And the higher price increases supply. Folks in other areas load up trucks with supplies and take them to markets where the price is high.
    No one complains about supply and demand when prices are dropping. Film demand has dropped, so supply has contracted, too. It's rational, and it's the way that markets work. Companies still make film, but they have to make a profit, too. Don't like the price of Kodak film? Then buy Fuji. There are, in the film market as a whole, other choices.
    But this thread isn't about film in general. We're talking about a unique product that is going out of production. So vendors have a choice. They can sell at the old price, in which case a limited number of buyers would corner the market. Then you would pay whatever the market would bear on eBay. Or vendors can mark up prices and capture the profits for themselves.
    What would you do if you were a vendor? And would you rather live in an economy with central planning instead?
     
  27. It's good that I have never used Kodachrome. I won't know what I'm missing.
     
  28. Kodachcrome is being discontinued
     
  29. "Rich C (Riverside, Ca,) , Jun 22, 2009; 10:18 p.m. Isn't it amazing how easy it is to justify a rapid price increase: ie supply&demand, yet the demand for film by most estimates was on the decline since the digital boom, yet the price of film stayed the same or went higher!!!! Where was the s&d then? Oh, I know, cost of production; yeah right...."​
    Umm, Rich, it's obvious you don't quite understand the concept of "supply and demand". The reason the price of film went higher since the "digital boom" is because when demand goes down, manufacturers naturally decrease production. Cost of production might also increase because of "economies of scale".
    Seems to me that many on this forum should stick to photography and stay out of any kind of business...of course you could/may work for govt as they don't understand these simple concepts either!
     
  30. You're all missing the point. Kodachrome was discontinued when they stopped making 25 which was truely awesome film. Since then, nothing but nostalgia has kept 64 going. Good riddance.
     
  31. If Kodachrome was seen as wonderful as everyone here states, the demand would never have dwindled.
    As for gouging, are we arguing for the control of price for a luxury good?
     
  32. Rich needs to take ECON 101, or else retake it while not stoned. Hint: supply and demand work completely differently in the long run than they do in the short run.
    If B&H continued to sell the film cheap the only result would be that speculators would buy it up and you'd be paying through the nose to somebody on eBay instead of B&H. Several others here should take a course as well.
     
  33. Whatever happened to the dupe post filter in this forum?
     
  34. Thomas Hardy [​IMG] [​IMG] , Jun 23, 2009; 10:13 a.m.
    It's good that I have never used Kodachrome. I won't know what I'm missing.​
    My thoughts exactly. - Granted I always was curious to try it out... Ehh, E100G is good enough!!!
     
  35. The night before the announcement the kodachrome was $7.95, at B&H,
    I was on there looking at slide films.
    $11 is quite a jump. Maybe I'll try some Fuji Astia, which was recommended to me
    on the Leicaflex models thread.
     
  36. My thoughts exactly. - Granted I always was curious to try it out... Ehh, E100G is good enough!!!​
    That's like saying that a hamburger is good enough when you have a taste for pizza; It'll work, but it's not really as satisfying. Some of us acquired the taste for certain films over the years and will miss Kodachrome. One of our favorite dishes is being taken off the menu; never mind that we don't eat it all the time, it's was good to know it was there. The next step might be that the restaurant closes entirely, so eat while you can!
     
  37. I hope Fuji will take over the formula for Kodachrome and improve it like they have done to all films and will also put on the market the fridge size automatic developing machine Kodak was supposed to market many years ago. Then we have again something to scan...for real.
     
  38. jtk

    jtk

    Fuji improved on Kodachrome a long time ago: Astia.
     
  39. and will also put on the market the fridge size automatic developing machine Kodak was supposed to market many years ago​
    If you want a machine that will automatically develop your E6 film, Jobo makes two models that are smaller than a fridge and can handle E-6, C41 and B&W.
     
  40. I laugh at you guys that think $11.95 per roll is too high! In a few months it will probably be going for $49.50 a roll on Ebay. People that love the stuff will pay whatever they have to, especially when it's not made anymore and the remaining stock at supply houses is gone. I am not laughing at Kodak however, it frosts my butt that they did not give me the last production roll to shoot, I could have been somebody! Steve McCurry? grrrrrrrr!
     
  41. "I hope Fuji will take over the formula for Kodachrome and improve it like they have done to all films and will also put on the market the fridge size automatic developing machine Kodak was supposed to market many years ago. Then we have again something to scan...for real."
    Kodachrome lost to E6 long ago. No one is going to revive it - it's too difficult and expensive to process in small volume.
     
  42. According to my information, last 100 roles of film would not be available on stores, rather would be auctioned on ebay or company's own website. I believe that this would be the fairest outcome, from an economist perspective.
     
  43. According to UPS my package from Adorama is waiting at my house. I ordered 4 rolls yesterday morning at $7.99 - should have made it 20! I'm amending my camera plans for my trip to California in a couple weeks, instead of just my D90 (convenience) I'll bring my F75 too and shoot the Kodachrome with my 50/1.8. Usually I shoot film on Minoltas but somehow I have Kodachrome and "a Nikon camera" stuck in my head :)
     
  44. If there's so much demand here at the end, maybe Kodak should do another run of Kodachrome this year. They could probably sell it all.
     
  45. There's always demand at the end. Just look at Kodachrome 25, Tech Pan and HIE.
     
  46. There's always demand at the end. Just look at Kodachrome 25, Tech Pan and HIE.​
    Funny how I have all of those..:)
    B&H now shows KR-64 at $9.95.
     
  47. Typical for both Adorama and B&H. There are other more reputable companies, and I stopped buying from these two quite some time ago. Freestyle is a great one to buy from.
     
  48. If it was announced tonight that gasoline would be discontinued in the next month, what do you think would happen to gas prices. Would there be lines at the pump? Is this because gasoline is treated more as a necessity? Is K64 a necessity, or luxury?
    Two things related to supply and demand have happened here.

    #1 - The film has been discontinued, immediately shrinking the future supply of the film. Production has stopped, meaning that supply will diminish.

    #2 - The announcement that the film has been discontinued has sent people running to buy it. Thus increasing demand in the short term.
    In the short term, the price will go up due to increased short-term demand. In the long-term the price will go up due to a long-term shortage of supply.

    Think of the market place more of an auction. Kodak says "we only have so much film". Consumers react saying, "I want some, in case it is the last chance I get to buy it". Consumer A is willing to pay the old price of $9. Consumer B is willing to pay a price of $12 dollars because he wants it worse than consumer A and can afford the higher price.

    What should the retailer charge? Consumer A's price of $9, or Consumer B's price of $12? If you were selling things for a living, what would you do? Put $9 or $12 in your pocket? Better yet, if you only have a limited supply of something, how do you decide which consumer gets to buy it, A or B? Wouldn't logic say sell it to the person who will pay more? Why do you think diamonds are expensive? Hint: Its because people are willing to pay what they are selling for. Its pretty simple...really.

    Is it price gouging to sell at the market price? Especially when we are talking about something like a specific type of film. A specific type of film that you can only get processed at a few select places.

    You can complain and say that it is price gouging. I say that it is business and micro-economics. Get over it and buy some fuji. If you want K64 so bad, then pay the market price. I can't afford everything I want, but life goes on.

    I assure you, that no children will starve to death because the price of K64 has gone up do to it being discontinued.
     
  49. 'If there's so much demand here at the end, maybe Kodak should do another run of Kodachrome this year. They could probably sell it all.'
    Someone at Kodak should read this:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/2858956/Ad-hoc-Heinz-meanz-business.html
     
  50. Someone at Kodak should read this:
    (link)
    LOL. Maybe someone at Kodak "has" read that. :D
     
  51. "If Kodachrome was seen as wonderful as everyone here states, the demand would never have dwindled."

    That's probably the dumbest statement in this whole thread. It seems to me that the advent of digital might have had just a little impact... ya think?
     
  52. Keith Aldrich, Jun 23, 2009; 05:53 p.m.
    [ ]
    ....I assure you, that no children will starve to death because the price of K64 has gone up do to it being discontinued.
    Gosh Keith, you make it all so simple! But why so many poor examples?

    The high retail price of limited luxury goods generally reflect high prices at which those goods are being supplied to the retailer. The producer/manufacturer/wholesaler's price rises, therefore the retailer's costs rise, so the retailer's prices rise.

    If gasoline was being discontinued tomorrow, the people that sell gasoline to the public would be facing a collapse, or major shrinkage, of their businesses. They would therefore predictably, perhaps with some justification, try to earn as much as they could with the last of their supplies. Again, a price rise is related to a cost to the retailer.

    A retailer selling Kodachrome, as one of 10,000 product lines, is not going to suffer materially when that product is discontinued. To significantly raise their price overnight in response to an announcement of discontinuance is profiteering. It is not suddenly costing them more from Kodak. It may be a relatively small sum of money involved, but the principle is the same. (Petty shoplifting is not as bad as massive fraud, but they should both be discouraged.)

    Imagine an isolated community ravaged by a hurricane. The only local supplier of building materials can triple his normal (already profitable) prices because people want those materials badly. That is supply and demand at work. But it is not admirable conduct.

    Pretty much everyone understands how supply and demand work, Keith. But not enough people appreciate that this particular piece of economic dogma is not really a satisfactory justification for every decision that a business takes. It may explain some decisions, but it does not necessarily make them right. Do you understand the distinction between explanation and justification?
     
  53. > supply and demand
    Hmmm ... if there were demand, why would Kodak drop it? Think about this. This artificial "demand" you are seeing is just sentimental. If there is truly a demand that can generate profit, why would Kodak be so stupid? Which company you know of does not want a profit?
     
  54. I think you guys should just let the corpse rot and pass ... it's over. RIP.
     
  55. Meh, how many people are pricing out K64 for the first time because of this announcement? My bet is that Dewayne's is going to have one hell of a time processing the huge sudden demand for the last batch... and that can only mean one thing... more possibilities for lower quality. It makes perfect sense for a company that is closing factories and loosing jobs to discontinue it's single most expensive and difficult product to produce and support, which also happens to have rather low popularity.
    This would be like demanding the Volkswagon continue to manufacture the original Beetle (which only stopped production about 6 years ago) despite all of the specialized equipment and general lack of interest from consumers as well as a rather small distribution network. The fact that most of the rest of the world has moved on to either a Golf or a Jetta or a Jetta repackaged as a New Beetle and the people interested in Classic Beetles are largely interested in CLASSIC pre-1970's models means that the demand for such a vehicle is rediculously low.
    You can't buy Kodachrome everywhere. You can't get a good price on it, you pay a premium higher than other slide films. You can't shoot it in every 35mm camera (some PNS camera's don't go down that low in ISO and you would be better off shooting it on a professional camera). And you can't process it anywhere, in fact you can only process it in ONE PLACE, at a very high price with a very long waiting list. For much much less hassle and price and with a higher speed range you can shoot Ektachrome. Just be glad you can still do that.
     
  56. Time to beat a dead horse. It's Capitalism. Why does an Impala sell at a steep discount while a Corvette sells at a premium over MRSP? It's Capitalism. Don't like the price? You know what to do.
     
  57. "If Kodachrome was seen as wonderful as everyone here states, the demand would never have dwindled."

    That's probably the dumbest statement in this whole thread. It seems to me that the advent of digital might have had just a little impact... ya think?
    You probably have to get a lot of things explained to you don't you?
     
  58. Mark, not just the advent of digital, but continuous improvements on Ektachrome over the last 60 years and Ektachrome's generally lower price and easier processing and even the improvement of high resolution films like Ektar 100 and Portra 160 have cut into those profits as well... and that's just where Kodak has been competing with ITSELF, not including the likes of Fuji slide films like Velvia and Provia and it's high resolution print films. You are looking at a product that was dwindling in popularity LONG before digital cameras were good for anything more than keychain photos.
     
  59. Enrique, you must be Hispanic. No offence, right?
    BTW, I'm Dutch. Don't feel offended by that either.
    We're all something Enrique, its just that some of us are dumb as well. No offence, right?
    Back on topic: I agree with Patrick, Kodachrome sales were declining before the arrival of digital. It's too bad the process is expensive and requires large quantities to make it profitable. I own slides my uncle shot in the 1970s and they're as bright as day after 30 years.
     
  60. Supply & Demand? Basic Economic Practise? Basic business tactics? The latter two yes, but it doesn't make it right, price gouging and fixing is actually illegal, the majority of cases get turned a blind eye towards though.
     
  61. David Hoya wtrote:
    "Gosh Keith, you make it all so simple! But why so many poor examples?

    The high retail price of limited luxury goods generally reflect high prices at which those goods are being supplied to the retailer. The producer/manufacturer/wholesaler's price rises, therefore the retailer's costs rise, so the retailer's prices rise.

    If gasoline was being discontinued tomorrow, the people that sell gasoline to the public would be facing a collapse, or major shrinkage, of their businesses. They would therefore predictably, perhaps with some justification, try to earn as much as they could with the last of their supplies. Again, a price rise is related to a cost to the retailer.

    A retailer selling Kodachrome, as one of 10,000 product lines, is not going to suffer materially when that product is discontinued. To significantly raise their price overnight in response to an announcement of discontinuance is profiteering. It is not suddenly costing them more from Kodak. It may be a relatively small sum of money involved, but the principle is the same. (Petty shoplifting is not as bad as massive fraud, but they should both be discouraged.)

    Imagine an isolated community ravaged by a hurricane. The only local supplier of building materials can triple his normal (already profitable) prices because people want those materials badly. That is supply and demand at work. But it is not admirable conduct."
    Odd that you attack Keith when he clearly has a firmer grasp on this than you do. Supply and demand determine price.
    You seem to think that all product pricing should be cost plus. That isn't the way markets work. Or do you work for a govenment contractor? That could very well distort your view of reality.
     
  62. Wow, a thread this long over a product life cycle end, that seems to have also steered many into macroeconomic theory. I wonder if there is still interest in debating vinyl records v. digital media?
     
  63. Business is no charity people, get over it. If you find the film not valuable enough at the current price, don't buy it. If most people think like you, the demand will drop and so will the price. If OTOH demands doesn't drop, that means it is *the* price.
     
  64. macroeconomic theory​
    Actually, its Micro-Economic theory. :D
     
  65. Well, I am disappointed as well (macroeconomics professors allowing :) ) at B&H for such practice, didn't expect that from such a reputed business. I don't know if the bad publicity is worth the couple of extra dollars they are getting per roll.
    Have a couple rolls left, I like the film very much, but love Velvia too. It is sad because it is like the end of an era, but we have to accept that film may dissapear or become scarce, and for so, less choices and more expensive. Hopefully MF digital backs will be more affordable by then.
     
  66. You are looking at a product that was dwindling in popularity LONG before digital cameras were good for anything more than keychain photos.​
    Exactly. I recall Kodachrome beginning to disappear from numerous retail outlets by the mid 1990's. When I first entered the hobby in the late 1970's, you could find Kodachrome 64 and Ektachrome 64 in every department store and drug store across the country, often in 110 and 126 as well as 35mm.
     
  67. Since film is less popular, it would be more reasonable for it to be cheaper to entice those who want to try it.
    Most discontinued items go for a reduced price, even if having a following. I used to shoot with this film many years back, but my film choices have been different in recent years.
     
  68. Well - I suppose an increase from $8.50/roll yesterday to over $11.00/roll really is not as bad as can be, but I note that B&H seemingly changed their price right after the news was announced.​
    How do we know that B&H, Adorama and others aren't simply passing along a price increase from Kodak?
     
  69. Since film is less popular, it would be more reasonable for it to be cheaper to entice those who want to try it.
    Most discontinued items go for a reduced price, even if having a following. I used to shoot with this film many years back, but my film choices have been different in recent years.​
    I would think that concept only applies when a product's dwindling popularity results in a surplus that will never be sold at the intended price. The amount of Kodachrome produced in recent years has already been drastically downsized in response to fading consumer demand.
     
  70. Price gouging/profiteering are labels we attach to the selling of necessary or essential items at a high mark-up. Since film is really neither necessary or essential I wouldn't accuse any of this merchants of behaving dishonestly or immorally as they are simply taking advantage of temporary market conditions in a manner that harms no one. Besides, the remaining supplies will be rationed out somehow, either by people's willingness to pay or people's willingness to invest effort in tracking down remaining supplies. Which is more moral... I have no idea.
     
  71. John Liberty , Jun 23, 2009; 05:43 p.m. said:
    Typical for both Adorama and B&H. There are other more reputable companies...

    I'm not sure what put this bug in your head. There may be other AS REPUTABLE retailers, but there are none more so.
    Henry Posner
    B&H Photo-Video
     
  72. I find it interesting that Mr. Posner saw fit to address two of the most negative posts (including one that should have been removed immediately) but makes no statement about the some 40 per cent increase in the price shortly after Kodak's announcement.
    Moderator's Note: A racial/ethnic comment on a post previously made has now been removed, along with references to it. That slipped by this moderator while traveling and having limited access to the web.
     
  73. John Lynch , Jun 24, 2009; 02:30 p.m.
    I find it interesting that Mr. Posner saw fit to address two of the most negative posts (including one that should have been removed immediately) but makes no statement about the some 40 per cent increase in the price shortly after Kodak's announcement.
    I thought I had, but I'll be happy to repost this:
    Our price has been lowered from what it was yesterday but Econ 101 says that supply and demand do influence prices. This is not an investment property to buy and hold with the idea you'll be able to sell it in a couple of decades to finance the kid's college education.

    But, this is a scarce item which will become more so soon. If a small price hike puts off a dilettante so stock is more available for those who'll really use and appreciate it, it's to the good. And, if our small price hike helps us hold other prices in check or add one more item to our "free shipping" roster or helps pay for one more guy in the warehouse so orders get out of here more speedily, that too serves a useful purpose.

    My PERSONAL opinion is folks who presume this is some sort of unsavory opportunistic price gouging have not thought through all the parameters of the situation.
    Henry Posner
    B&H Photo-Video
     
  74. Mr. Posner,
    To quote a valuable marketing school teaching, "perception is reality." I suggest that you take the comments from the customers that have supported you seriously.
     
  75. I suggest that you take the comments from the customers that have supported you seriously.
    Of COURSE we do. That's a primary reason I'm here.
    Henry Posner
    B&H Photo-Video
    Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
    Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955)
     
  76. So Mr. Posner,
    Are you saying that the reason for your small 40% price increase is so you can pass along lower prices, or free shipping, on other items?
    That if, by some accident, your bottom line increases by selling to more appreciative, non-"dilettante" customers, you will lower prices so as to avoid "unsavory opportunism"?
    Am I understanding you correctly?
    Yours truly,
    (a formerly satisfied B&H "dilettante" customer)
     
  77. I assume that B&H's critics here, if they're trying to sell a lightly used lens and Canon or Nikon increases the price of that lens (thereby increasing the used lens's value), will not increase their asking price for the used item. After all, "they already paid for it and the demand should not affect the asking price," so they should only ask what they could have gotten for the lens before the Canon/Nikon price increase, right? :)
     
  78. What a jump, from economics to relativity. And from pure capitalist supply-demand to help pay the warehouse guy.
    Well, Mr. Posner, as a customer, I find your statement unsatisfactory. But I am one of them folks "who have not thought about all the parameters of the situation", as I do every time I buy film, BTW. I hope you consider "the parameters of your customer situations as well" when charging our credit cards :).
    If your idea of taking customer comments seriously is to criticize them, think that maybe it's the wrong path to take. I must say I am becoming quite disappoined with B&H today.
     
  79. Moderator's Note: A racial/ethnic comment on a post previously made has now been removed, along with references to it. That slipped by this moderator while traveling and having limited access to the web.
    Thank you. Much appreciated. I hope your travel was for pleasure and was pleasurable.
    If your idea of taking customer comments seriously is to criticize them...
    The only person I criticized was the individual whose now-deleted post was so unpleasant.
    Henry Posner
    B&H Photo-Video
     
  80. Please, Mr. Posner, You know that that wasn't the person I was referring to. But "folks who presume this is some sort of unsavory opportunistic price gouging have not thought through all the parameters of the situation". It was perfectly clear in my post.
    Really really disappointed.
     
  81. Really really disappointed.
    I am sorry you're disappointed. I was disappointed by "Kodachrome 64 Price Gouging at B&H ??" IMO it's a shame when a retailer with a 35+ year history of the highest standards of ethical integrity is all but accused of something as unsavory as price gouging. I was disappointed too that my post, so reasonably accepted and understood elsewhere online, is subject to such misinterpretation here, where I've been an active member of these forums for more than a decade. Maybe I'm just thin-skinned.
    You have my apology for having offended you.
    Henry Posner
    B&H Photo-Video
     
  82. Thank you, apology accepted
     
  83. all the people who are so disappointed in B&H increase of the price imagine this:
    YOU own a store and sell k64 and on Monday Kodak announces that it discontinues K64. you wouldn't increase the price? i highly doubt it.
    I think your complains would be justifiable if they doubled the price, but a couple of $ for something you love using and that will be available for only several months doesn’t sound that bad.
     
  84. is it possible that kodak is selling the last of kodachrome for higher price? does anybody know?
    How do we know that B&H, Adorama and others aren't simply passing along a price increase from Kodak?​
    To respond to this question. I have been informed by my contacts at Kodak that they have not raised their prices on Kodachrome at all in regards to the announcement of it being discontinued. Any price increases (or "clearance" decreases) you might see are a retailer choice.
    That having been said:
    The US operates on a free market system. Supply and demand drives prices. It is why potatoes cost less from a roadside stand in Idaho than they do an New York City supermarket. There are a ton of potatoes in ID and it's easy to get them, therefore people won't pay as much. There are fewer places that produce potatoes in NYC so people are willing to pay more to get something that they can't make. Prices are set by what the market will bear. It is why Leica can sell a $4000 digital camera while Canon sells a $400 one. Leica created and sells that product because people will buy it. It is the whole reason that ebay works. Things sell on ebay for exactly what someone will pay for them and not a penny more.
    Don't like this? I don't know what to tell you. I guess you have two choices, Vote with your wallet and don't buy whatever it was from where ever you are were going to buy it, or find a country with a government controlled market and live there.
    As far as B&H goes, they have never been anything but completely honest and professional in the 10+ years I have been dealing with them. They are on the very short list of retailers who get my photographic purchasing money.
    Finally, any more ethnic or personal attacks and I'll just close this thread and boot out those who can't play nice. The site doesn't need that kind of crap. You want to fight? Take it behind the tennis courts after school like we did in elementary school.
     
  85. Maybe I'm crazy but when things are discontinued, aren't there usally closeout sales to liquidate inventory that was not not selling. Kodachrome wasn't sellig - that why it was discontinued.
    in 18 months all unused Kodachrome is worthless- there be no place to get it processed. If I had a store full of Kodachrome. I be happy to sell it at any price.
     
  86. As far as B&H goes, they have never been anything but completely honest and professional in the 10+ years I have been dealing with them. They are on the very short list of retailers who get my photographic purchasing money.​
    Thank you. I'd be grateful for these comments under any circumstances, but doubly so, considering the source.
    Henry Posner
    B&H Photo-Video
     
  87. Josh: I like your potato theory. I hope there's a stand outside the nikon factory when I visit Japan. You think they sell by the pound. Dreaming
    But seriously. I second Joshs statement. B&H is one of the most reputable and honest stores to deal with. AlI've once meet Henry in person after communicating with him on a Nikon forum elsewhere years ago. A pure professional
     
  88. I think this thread has run its course. Sounds like everyone's pretty much said all there is to be said.
     
  89. I'm with Josh. I've bought from B&H on several occasions and found their prices reasonable, their service fast, and their shipping often free. It's one of the first web sites I look at when I'm considering buying a photography item. I did order some Kodachrome from them at the current price, after deciding that the few rolls I had already ordered might not be enough and that if I don't shoot it all I can always offset the high price by selling the extras on Ebay at a profit (at the very high prices that are guaranteed in the 16-month window to come when you can't buy Kodachrome but you can get it developed).
    See, anybody can do a bit of free market dealing here and there, and buying items low and selling them high on Ebay is one of the ways I support my photo gear habit, so I don't begrudge B&H (or Adorama or any of the other retailers that increased their price) a dollar or two. They're just trying to stay profitable in a down market, same as the rest of us. One of the first things we were taught in professional practice class in architecture school was that in business you have the right to try to make profit, and so does everybody else.
     
  90. Well, I've not read the entire thread, but I did read a few of the pertinent replies from Henry Posner, and I too am a little disappointed. Saying that hiking the price means that it can be made available to people who really appreciate Kodachrome is disingenuous at best; insulting at worst. I have been a loyal customer at B+H since I moved to this country ten years ago, and I will remain so, but hiking the price on an item that is already in stock like this is a little galling.
    I hope that nobody involved in this pricing decision bitched about the sudden extreme rise in gas prices last year, because this is exactly the same thing. You can shout 'supply and demand' as loud as you like, but it doesn't necessarily make it right.
    Peace.
     
  91. Dave Carroll , Jun 24, 2009; 07:05 p.m.
    Well, I've not read the entire thread, but I did read a few of the pertinent replies from Henry Posner, and I too am a little disappointed. Saying that hiking the price means that it can be made available to people who really appreciate Kodachrome is disingenuous at best; insulting at worst. I have been a loyal customer at B+H since I moved to this country ten years ago, and I will remain so, but hiking the price on an item that is already in stock like this is a little galling.​
    We will have to agree to disagree. It's to bad you didn't read the entire thread. I think doing so might have given you a more complete picture of a thread whose title strongly (and inaccurately) suggests we'd stoop to an unsavory business practice of questionable ethics after 35+ years of absolute ethical integrity.
    I don't think any of my earlier comments were disingenuous OR insulting. Like B&H, I too have a lengthy history of ethical integrity here and elsewhere online and wouldn't compromise that hard-earned reputation over the sad slow death of Kodachrome or the price charged for the last few rolls.
    Finally, Kodachrome was not in stock when the price was increased. In fact I don't think we had the opportunity to sell a single roll at the price now being protested to vociferously, a price which has since (in no small part due to this thread) been lowered.
    Henry Posner
    B&H Photo-Video
     
  92. I just wonder why B&H lowered the price? It seems to validate the premise of this thread.
    Anyway, FWIW, based on almost 30 years of shopping at B&H, and ALWAYS being a satisfied customer, I would tend to give B&H any benefit of the doubt. I trust Henry and B&H. They've earned it.
     
  93. I've scanned lots of slides and thousands of Kodachromes and the one thing I notice about Kodachrome is that the color rarely faded, even in 50 year old film.
    So with the loss of Kodachrome, so goes an archival quality media. I won't miss it though. I've not bought film in 5 years or more.
    BTW, B&H gets just about all my photography dollars! Due to B&H's high customer loyalty, me thinks photo.net would have done better to partner with B&H over Adorama.
     
  94. Jeffrey Prokopowicz [​IMG] , Jun 24, 2009; 07:57 p.m.
    I just wonder why B&H lowered the price? It seems to validate the premise of this thread.​
    Because I found it and showed it to our buyer and discussed the situation with him.
    Anyway, FWIW, based on almost 30 years of shopping at B&H, and ALWAYS being a satisfied customer, I would tend to give B&H any benefit of the doubt. I trust Henry and B&H. They've earned it.​
    Thank you.
    Henry Posner
    B&H Photo-Video
     
  95. This thread is done. I'm closing it. You want to have further discussions with B&H about the subject, call them.
     

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