A Guide for the Abstracted

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by michaellinder, Aug 2, 2019.

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  1. First of all I have only offered you facts, without any political biased. Your imagination has decided that I'm a leftie of persuasion. This is the problem with imagination, without any recall to actual facts; it enters the world of fairy tales which is a very hard place to escape from. Ask anyone who has been captured by fairies, they will tell you that is so;))
     
  2. "Silence is so accurate" samstevens.

    In a previous incantation you felt for interesting debates, there should be challenges. Now when challenged you have gone off in a huff.

    You really should not take things so personal, it is a debate on a public forum. I have yet to sit on the font of all knowledge I just offer my thoughts.

    Methinks, anyone who has a opinion, think everyone else should agree with them, otherwise they will get upset and call you names or sulk..

    Really.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  3. "In one sentence you're talking about the importance of heritage, in the next sentence, you're saying heritage is a fairytale. Make up your mind already" Phil.

    Just offering facts nothing else. You referred to the 2nd world war and the British at that time were morally corrupt.

    That was my reading of your post.
     
  4. " perhaps talk about the truth and about actual liberty and freedom. I'm waiting"

    Just did, with actual factual information. Re read.

    Real world information.
     
  5. Sandy Vongries

    Sandy Vongries Administrator Staff Member

    Recent quote - prominent politician. "...We choose truth over facts."
     
  6. Your believes are simple to understand.

    You believe western culture is intricately superior to any culture. You also believe that immigration pollutes western culture, and the liberal left is the main cause of this immigration and pollution of western values. Indeed, the far right supports those views, and in Europe/USA they are becoming a political force.

    Those thoughts to my mind smell of one thing and only one thing. The white man claiming superiority over all other races and cultures.

    Thats how other cultures/peoples will see those believes.; which is a really bad thing for us, humanity.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  7. Jeez, Thatcher,was so far right, she fell of the edge, and had to be removed. Think, poll tax, which nearly started a revolution in the UK.

    The part building of roads in the UK was given to her husbands company, and her son was busy trying to start a revolution in a African country which had serious mineral wealth.

    Unfortunately for him and his mother, he was caught, and serious money was paid to free him.

    Learn facts, Phil.
     
  8. "Recent quote - prominent politician. "...We choose truth over facts." Sandy.

    Who's truths? Hey, why bother factual truths. Better to spin them a story, to make them feel all good, and warm inside.
     
  9. LOL. In Biden’s case, it’s just one in a long line of verbal gaffes. Thank goodness, though, that great artists knew the difference between facts and truth. That’s what brought us Impressionism, Expressionism, Cubism, abstraction, Surrealism, and Dadaism, among others. My guess is that even documentarians and realists know the difference and realize how the same facts presented differently can tell different emotional, aesthetic and personal truths.
     
  10. "What do you think?" Phil.

    Well, I like to think of myself as a free thinker, not bonded to any politics. Also, being a historical buff, I like to learn facts as opposed to fiction.

    As far as different cultures go, they all have values in their own ways. Western culture is very much based on materialism, and material wealth, as a judge of individuals standing in society. Eastern, culture is less so, spiritually, and the family tend to be of greater value. Although, being permeated with western values of materialism this is becoming less so. There is a strong argument that western values are destroying the planet due their religious fervour for materialism, the God of the western world.

    Let us look at Islamic culture which you have a problem with.

    Women and men are equal in Islam only a recent value in the Christian west. Muslims fast for 30 days in every year to experience what it is like to be poor and hungry. Muslims give 2.5 per cent of their saving to the poor. Violence and suicide missions are un Islamic as with Christians. But in all faiths there are those who make up their own believes and call it Islam or Christian. The core of Islam is a religion of peace which is reiterated many times in the Quran. In the Quran 5.16 states that God dislikes any disturbance of peace. God loves not the aggressors 2.190.

    Back to the fact thing. There are Muslims and Christians who make up their own personnel religion, and claim they are Muslims or Christians. This is why facts are so important to understand ,well, anything. If you do not understand the actual facts, then you will be led down the garden path by any Dick or Harry, and start spouting their nonsense.
     
  11. Only if you're tone deaf. I wasn't speaking of morals. The kind of thing I was talking about is, for example, two photographers going out and taking a picture of the "same" thing and coming up with two very different interpretations. That's not moral relativism. It's photography.

    The world of the surrealists is, at least to some extent, a world of dreams, not facts, and dreams hold many truths.
     
  12. Nice to see you back, Sam.

    Phil, do not box me. Whether in a religious way, or a political way. Rude.

    I like to understand all things and I do my research.
     
  13. " had you been reading me with an open mind to what I’m actually saying, you’d know nothing I said disagrees with that. I am DIFFERENTIATING between fact and Truth. I am not saying facts don’t matter. Metaphors can be eminently visual and photographs can be eminently metaphorical"

    Indeed, metaphors can be eminently visual.

    I was thinking of Shakespeare while reading your thoughts.

    Antony speaks over Caesar's body

    O, pardon me, thou bleeding piece of earth,
    That I am meek and gentle with these butchers!
    Thou art the ruins of the noblest man
    That ever lived in the tide of times.
    Woe to the hand that shed this costly blood!
    Over thy wounds now do I prophesy,—
    Which, like dumb mouths, do ope their ruby lips,
    To beg the voice and utterance of my tongue—
    A curse shall light upon the limbs of men;
    Domestic fury and fierce civil strife
    Shall cumber all the parts of Italy;
    Blood and destruction shall be so in use
    And dreadful objects so familiar
    That mothers shall but smile when they behold
    Their infants quarter'd with the hands of war;
    All pity choked with custom of fell deeds:
    And Caesar's spirit, ranging for revenge,
    With Ate by his side come hot from hell,
    Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice
    Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war;
    That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
     
  14. "LOL. Your ignorance here is laughable. The reason for Western culture being more materialistic is precisely because of the decline of religious and spiritual morals in the West," Phil.

    Thought I implied that. Is that a good thing?

    This is not true and misses an important nuance. When they say that “Islam is a religion of peace” what they mean is that as long as you surrender and comply with their doctrine" Phil.

    Pray do tell, where does it say that in the Quran? That is the problem, with folk interpretations of something the really do not have a clue about. Probably never opened the Quran. But they have a lot to say about it.

    The reality is the Quran respects all religion and believes in religious freedom for all faiths.

    Really, you should do your own research, Phil. Not keep listening to the bloke next door.

    PS never said any culture was superior to another. Just offered some facts.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  15. Your ignorance of Islamic culture beggars believe. Sort of feel I'm reading some uniformed nonsense from some right wing rag or crap from the cult of isis.. This is the problem when facts become stained with fairy tales. I suppose for many ignorance is bliss.

    Ask a Muslim women, in the street tomorrow, if she feels supressed. Ask the question in the real world learn the facts. Not from some right wing rag which has permeated your brain turning your mind into a zombie. Learn facts for yourself-ask the question of a Muslim women.Then ask the question of a Christian women if she feels supressed.

    The answers might surprise you.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
  16. Sandy Vongries

    Sandy Vongries Administrator Staff Member

    Moderator: What has this to do with photography? Take it outside.
     
    Bob Peebles and William Kahn like this.
  17. I agree.

    What has it to do with photography.
     
    William Kahn likes this.
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