If only...

Philosophy isn't cut & dried nor is it black & white.

I agree with this.

Therefore I don't see any "right or wrong" in philosophy.

Importantly, philosophers can be wrong, usually because of flaws in their logic or reasoning.

 

Early on in my study of philosophy, a favorite professor of mine presented a paper to a group of visiting philosophers. In a comment after the paper, one of the other professors pointed out a substantial flaw in my professor's reasoning. When it was made clear to him, he realized his mistake and was gracious in conceding that he was wrong. This did not completely undermine all of what he'd said, but he knew he had more work to do to fix his argument, and knew he might have to adjust some of his conclusions.

 

I was impressed with the original paper, with the critique, and with my professor's handling of the critique. One thing it taught me is that being wrong is not the end of the world. It can actually be the beginning of making your work better.

 

Photography is different from philosophy in that there are no specific rules of photography, such as those of logic, that one can be corrected on. Nevertheless, expertise is not something to be summarily dismissed. While an expert in the field of photography won't be given total say over determinations of how good or bad a photo is, the right kind of experience and expertise often comes with an ability to see in a way that's at least worth paying attention to. You don't have to agree in order to be able to learn from someone.

 

Respecting and listening to what someone else says doesn't have to mean they will have undue influence on you, unless you're weak and malleable to a fault. Achieving a balance between receiving feedback and advice and forging your own path is an art in itself, worth developing. Enclosing oneself in a bubble, on the other hand, completely free of outside opinion or feedback, seems like it could be both very lonely and yield a lot of emptiness and sterility, much like existing in a vacuum or void.

• "You don't have to agree in order to be able to learn from someone.":)
  

Been there and found it rewarding and most memorable. I still carry a one sentence critigue in my head that i don't agree with and use it often as i work.

But then there are others that i found no benefit from....Pure anecdotal; i took my work to the most experienced photographer and a teacher of photograpy (at SAIC.. The School at Art Institute of Chicago) once critiqued my early work (as a consultation re: admission). Most of the hour was spent viewing his work as what to strive for. And the work of the sucesses he had with guiding other well known & respected photographers of the time. Even as a young photographer i had already learned to look at others work. But as I developed my voice I learned to listen to what viewers say to help me refine my voice and skills.

Edited May 10, 2021 by inoneeye

You don't have to agree in order to be able to learn from someone.

 

Respecting and listening to what someone else says doesn't have to mean they will have undue influence on you, unless you're weak and malleable to a fault. Achieving a balance between receiving feedback and advice and forging your own path is an art in itself, worth developing. Enclosing oneself in a bubble, on the other hand, completely free of outside opinion or feedback, seems like it could be both very lonely and yield a lot of emptiness and sterility, much like existing in a vacuum or void.

 

"Whether you think you can, or think you can't- you're right" - wisdom from across the ages

 

In my experience, it is 100&% possible to learn from anyone & everyone. Doesn't matter who or what they are, everyone has something to teach, just as everyone has something to learn. One must be open to learning, to be willing & able to set one's prejudices and preconceptions aside. Once one opens their mind & their heart to others, everything becomes possible. With a closed mind and a closed heart, possibilities are dramatically reduced.

it is 100&% possible to learn from anyone & everyone

Careful, now, 100% is a little too close to perfection! ;););)

In my experience

Yes though, as you note, the experience of others seems to show that it will be less likely they’ll be able to learn from others, not because of an inherent inability, but because of developed resistance.

Careful, now, 100% is a little too close to perfection! ;););)

 

ha ha OK let me back that off to 99.999%

 

Yes though, as you note, the experience of others seems to show that it will be less likely they’ll be able to learn from others, not because of an inherent inability, but because of developed resistance.

 

Egg zackly, Sam.

 

Just something I've learned during the course of my 64 ish years on the planet.

Things come from surprising places sometimes- but you cannot receive that which you are not open to- or don't want.

 

"Anything is possible. But not if you don't believe in anything."- Tom Banks aka Ricochetrider

 

“Only from the heart can you touch the sky.” - Rumi

“When the student is ready, the master appears.” -Buddhist Proverb

“I am still learning.” — Michelangelo

“It is what we know already that often prevents us from learning.” –Claude Bernard

“Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.” -Mahatma Gandhi

"Anything is possible. But not if you don't believe in anything."- Tom Banks aka Ricochetrider

I’d also add, “Anything is possible, but not if you believe too much!”

LOL! The OP is a big troll. His initial comment and all the subsequent ones have all the hallmarks of cheap trolling ... pretty easy hooks that are tantalizingly easy to refute, OP's tendency to be confrontational when not called for, etc etc. Ignoring would be the best option here. However, I love some of the comments others made in response.

LOL! The OP is a big troll. His initial comment and all the subsequent ones have all the hallmarks of cheap trolling ... pretty easy hooks that are tantalizingly easy to refute, OP's tendency to be confrontational when not called for, etc etc. Ignoring would be the best option here. However, I love some of the comments others made in response.

 

Yes, well ... if only, eh?

LOL! The OP is a big troll. His initial comment and all the subsequent ones have all the hallmarks of cheap trolling ... pretty easy hooks that are tantalizingly easy to refute, OP's tendency to be confrontational when not called for, etc etc. Ignoring would be the best option here. However, I love some of the comments others made in response.

 

However, I love some of the comments others made in response.

Yes, indeed, a troll can troll ... but he can’t con-troll the substance of what others wind up discussing because of and despite his empty provocations.

If you felt that way about your photo, then why would you ever ask for a critique?

In order to troll?

If the photographer who takes the photo can be the ONLY one who knows whether they got it right or not, doesn't that relegate "critique" to "opinion" status? If I take a photo that I think is perfect, how can I be wrong?

Given the internal logic of your question. You can't be wrong. If you felt that way about your photo, then why would you ever ask for a critique?

In order to troll?

Yeah, I thing Mr. Johnson thinks he's employing the Socratic method by posing a statement (the original post) as a question or in Zen Buddhism, a Koan. Doug, are you truly interested in an answer or are you just trolling? Do tell.

I think Doug has left the building.... for good. He expressed interest in being deleted from p.n.

If one is right than how can they be wrong? It’s all subjective really. I’ve yet to take the perfect photo and do not recall anyone ever claiming they did.

If the photographer who takes the photo can be the ONLY one who knows whether they got it right or not, doesn't that relegate "critique" to "opinion" status? If I take a photo that I think is perfect, how can I be wrong?

 

If photographers requests critique, by your terms, it would mean they did not know "whether they got it right or not" and want opinions about it. If you think your photo is "perfect" why would you request a critique -- besides enjoying others chatting about your work?

" why would you request a critique" Doug.

 

Me, never. Usually they are either , a love in from the fans, or, very negative.

 

They, forget, or don't care, photographers are at different times ,and different places.

 

We are humanoid.