Nick Ut 2018?

In the era of Trump, no fact and no truth is safe.

That is really rich after the extraodinary Mr. Obama and his minions. I suspect, to you truth is always "nuanced" if / when you recognize it.

You still haven't answered why it's morally acceptable to want to deny a woman's right to choose (supposedly in order to save babies) and then unnecessarily take away those same babies you might have "saved" from their moms on the basis of lies about a law that doesn't exist while listening to their cries with no compassion but instead blaming someone else for what you're doing. Until you can do that, you're wasting any more attacks on Obama, who hasn't been president for about 18 months. I suspect you bring up Obama because you know there's no rational defense of what Trump is doing and you've run out of talking points and can't actually articulate a rational basis for the hypocrisy you're mired in.

Funny everyone thinks everyone else is drinking the cool aid while they themselves are driving drunk o_O. Not picking on anyone but I don't like see politics involved at my fav photo site.

I don't like see politics involved at my fav photo site.

There are too many journalistic photos involved with political matters for a photo site to ignore. Any photo site that wouldn't recognize the importance of political photos and the long history of photography and politics, including the heated discussions that would ensue because of all sorts of passionate responses to the photos and the issues they address, wouldn't be very much of a photo site at all. If you don't want to take part, please don't. There's no reason you should. But there's also no reason a photo site you frequent shouldn't allow a free flow of ideas, no matter how contentious, on all matters that photos may be communicating about.

You still haven't answered why it's morally acceptable to want to withdraw a woman's right to choose

Why is it morally acceptable to kill babies (except in the cases of incest or rape) when birth control is ubiquitous & cheap. I do believe in a woman's right to choose - in fact, I don't believe the government should be involved at all. It should be between the woman and her partner and her physician. You on the left always bring up "the children". I am sure the children of illegals who try to break the law and sneak into our country are upset. I am also sure they are being treated professionally and humanely in context of the Flores Settlement. As a point of law, the children of criminals should not profit from the fruits of their parents crime. As to Obama, you brought up lies, and he was extraordinarily goo at that - difference is, you approved of his lies.

I don't like see politics involved at my fav photo site.

Nor do I, but I do respond robustly when provoked by clear propaganda pieces disguised as photography content.

I hadn't seen this photo before today, but had come across some of John Moore's earlier work from the 'Undocumented' project when it was shown at a Getty Images exhibition:

 

'Undocumented': On the Front Lines of the Immigration War

 

The image of the cuffed hands had stayed with me. The Guardian has an interview with Moore today, where he talks about the latest photo:

 

Image of sobbing toddler at US border: ‘It was hard for me to photograph’

“I have photographed many immigrant families seeking political asylum at the border over the last few years.

 

“I am sure that most of these families had no idea of the new US policy to separate children from their parents during the immigration court proceedings.

 

“I knew, however, what would happen to many of them next – separation – after they were taken away, so it was difficult for me to witness.

 

...

 

“One of the last in line was the mother with her daughter. I had spoken with her briefly and she said she was from Honduras and that she and her two-year-old had been traveling for a month to reach the US border.

 

“The officer asked her to put the little girl on the ground while the mother was searched. Once on the ground the young girl immediately started crying.

 

“As a photojournalist covering this story for years, and as the father of three children, including a toddler, it was personally very hard for me to photograph. Very quickly the two were then bundled into the transport van, and it was over. I had to take a few deep breaths, as it was emotional for me to see.”

Thanks for sharing the photos. I saw a few images from that set before, but not all of them. Not the photo of the handcuffed hands. We sometimes forget what terrible conditions these families are fleeing from, that motivate them to undertake such a perilous journey.

That is really rich after the extraodinary Mr. Obama and his minions. I suspect, to you truth is always "nuanced" if / when you recognize it.

Any facts to go with that, other than "you can keep your doctor" which was bull.

Any facts to go with that,

Do your own research - just Google Obama Administration Whoppers. You'll find plenty in publications of all sorts - some you might even like. Go year by year for the best selection.

Do your own research - just Google Obama Administration Whoppers. You'll find plenty in publications of all sorts - some you might even like. Go year by year for the best selection.

You have made a statement. The burden of proof is yours.

Moderator Note:

 

Intrinsically and also historically, there's been a deal of latitude in how far 'off topic' these conversations have been allowed to travel.

 

Noted after a couple of pages of mainly politic-based to and fro ardgy-bardgy, Richard Williams' commentary attempts to pull the conversation back to a 'photography' related discussion: it would best for the conversation to continue as a Casual Photo Conversation.

 

Thank you all, in anticipation.

 

William

Crime in Germany is at the lowest level in 28 years. FACT.

Please pardon my curiosity: Which stats are you quoting? - Sorry for derailing the thread further; I live there and all I am noticing is raising fear levels and politicians attempting to exploit them.

Upon the images: I'd consider Utt's stronger and more likely to speak for itself.

 

I neither know what to think about using kids in the discussion about migration, nor what to think about little kids' parents attempting to make it as illegal migrants in the US. AFAIK that country can be tough to it's poor, even if they are legal inhabitants with work permits.

Please pardon my curiosity: Which stats are you quoting? - Sorry for derailing the thread further; I live there and all I am noticing is raising fear levels and politicians attempting to exploit them.

Upon the images: I'd consider Utt's stronger and more likely to speak for itself.

 

I neither know what to think about using kids in the discussion about migration, nor what to think about little kids' parents attempting to make it as illegal migrants in the US. AFAIK that country can be tough to it's poor, even if they are legal inhabitants with work permits.

The official statistics are to be found here.

HERE'S A LINK to CNNs "famous iconic photos"

 

Most of them tell a more complete story than Moore's photo. Some don't. Looking through them, I don't think Moore's will wind up in the lexicon of great iconic photos, though I do think it is providing an important illustration of today's administrative policy.

 

Migrant Mother has long been a favorite iconic photo of mine. But the story it tells is of a mother and children. The photo itself doesn't say migrant and doesn't say depression era. We've grown up knowing what that photo is about, the story is embedded in it but is mostly from outside the frame. Eisenstadt's The Kiss, another amazing iconic photo, doesn't actually tell us it was the end of WWII. We know that because of outside info. The Sandy Hook photo shows children in horror but not the cause of it. We have to learn that from outside sources.

 

I'm not taking away anything from any of these photos. I'm merely noting that great photos and great iconic photos don't do all the talking by themselves and don't necessarily tell the whole story or even the vital parts of the story. They often rely on our knowing the story to get the full impact of what they're showing.

 

The three photos I mention stand on their own as moving photos, for a variety of reasons. But they don't necessarily clue us in to the significance of the stories they're part of unless we know, from the outside, what those stories are and know to connect them to the particular stories, which they don't do on their own.

It is absurd to imply that laws must be applied and enforced 100% objectively with no gray area. Aside from it being stupid, our justice system does not have the means to prosecute all, or even close to all, legal infractions. Applying and enforcing the law subjectively is not only right, it is absolutely necessary. But hey, if you want to raise taxes to afford the resources needed to prosecute and serve sentencing of all infractions please contact your legislators and demand a tax increase. No? Didn't think so.

 

The Trump administration's executive orders regarding illegal immigration policy, and the AG's "zero tolerance" policy are choosing to refocus the subjective enforcement of law heavily against illegal immigration, knowing full well that resource limitations will dictate that other criminal activity will go unenforced. They also know that family separation is a result of prosecuting illegal immigration, yet they still have decided that it is more important to prosecute than other criminal activity. There is no forcing of their hand; not by the Flores settlement or any law. Their policies alone have resulted in the large increase in family separations. Further, they have hinted that this is intentional, as an attempt to advance their will on immigration. In other words, they are using family separation as a pawn. That is despicable.

"it would best for the conversation to continue as a Casual Photo Conversation." . . . well that didn't happen.

 

This is a "Casual Photo Conversation Forum" within the "Photo.net" site - it is not a place to primarily discuss Politics and Government's Policies.

 

This conversation is closed.