Light meter options for MF

Hi, long time lurker first time poster.

 

So I've just bought my first medium format camera, a Mamiya RB67 Pro S. Still waiting for it to arrive. Exciting stuff.

 

Incidentally, (get it?) this means I probably need a lightmeter. A surprisingly expensive one. A lightmeter that's going to cost as much as

the camera body itself.

 

First, I'm an amateur film-only photographer and I never intend to do weddings or studio work. I don't work with flash at all. I do

landscapes and travel photgraphy, so that means I need a spotmeter. But I also shoot people and things generally within reach, so I want

a meter that can do incident as well.

 

In doing my research, I've found a few reasonably priced lightmeters I'm interested in.

 

1) Minolta Auto Meter III or IV

Pro: small, has accessory for spotmetering

Con: too complicated, too digital?

 

2) Pentax Spotmeter analog or digital

Pro: Ansel Adams used it

Con: large, no incident metering

 

And that's as far as I've gotten really. I know Sekonic is nice, but they're on the expensive side and seem like they do way more than I

need. Although, I found a Sekonic analog meter in a camera shop today. Seemed fine. Good price. I do like the idea of an analog style

light meter. Digital can feel so...clinical.

 

So besides getting learned on zone metering, I feel like I need some opinions and help on this purchase. Any ideas?

 

Thanks in advance,

Ryan

<p>Alternatively you could use you existing digital camera and transfer the readings with suitable bias as needed?</p>

<p>For my cameras that have no lightmeter, or not a reliable one, I often just use my smartphone, which has manual control, and a fixed aperture. So I take a reading with that, see if it's reasonably what I'd want and calculate from there. It's not a perfect solution, but a workable one.</p>

<p>Other than that, I think in quite some ways you're contradicting yourself. You want all features, cheap. The main reason to get spot metering and incident metering is higher reliability/accuracy.... which older gear usually does not have. I don't mind buying second hand gear, but in fact the next thing on my wishlist is a decent lightmeter and I'll just get the entry level brand new Sekonic. Spending a bit more, but it'll last more than long enough to make that spending worth it.</p>

<p>An accurate, easy to read analog meter would be nice, but there are a lot of problems with them. The older selenium type, for example the Weston series, tend to lose accuracy over time. The newer CDS meters often use the obsolete mercury batteries, and they don't do flash metering.</p>

<p>Some years ago I bought a Polaris digital meter which does incident and reflected, ambient and flash, and I've never regretted it. It runs off a single AA battery. I am all in favour of using classic equipment but when it comes to assessing exposure, a modern reliable meter is a godsend. It doesn't take many wasted films to justify the cost.</p>

<p>By the way I don't see a great advantage of using a spot meter for landscape or travel photography.</p>

I've been playing with the app on my phone. It seems effective to a point.

 

Do they make new analog light meters?

 

And while I want it to be cheap, ($200 is my limit, which isn't what I would describe as "cheap") I really just don't want it to

be laden with features I never intend to use. I just want simple, yet full-featured in a very specific spectrum. Is that too

much to ask for?

 

And if you can't hold the meter directly up to what you're measuring, don't you need a spot meter at that point? Or is that

not how it works?

<p>My favorite is Gossen SBC employing 9 volt battery, led lights rather than match needle, does both reflected and incident, I got mine from indoor group shop for the price of a slice of pizza and a bottle of soft drink. I ordered the manual from "epray" thus a meter with manual for under $15 USA</p>

<p>The Minoltas are great and you can use it once you set up some studio strobes. If a picture is important enough that you would have been motivated to take 10 readings with a spotmeter then it is important enough to bracket the exposure by 1/2 f-stop on either side. What Ansel Adams might have done isn't relevant because he was developing one negative at a time (sheet film). You're developing whole rolls so you can't come up with a custom development time for each image.</p>

<p>I've used Soligor spot meter for 25+ years and have always found it to be quite accurate. If you want a spot meter for Zone system work, it is a good choice. Older Sekonic incident meters are quite affordable as well--I have both L-518 and L-718 incident/flash meters that are readily available used in the $100-125 range, and they have also proved to be very accurate and reliable in daily studio use. One of the things I like about them is the read out, which looks a bit like a needle without the greater delicacy of a needle movement in an older analog meter. I have a 5 degree spot attachment for my L-718, but it isn't a replacement for the Soligor for landscape work. My advice would be to get two meters eventually, and get the incident first unless you are going to plunge into the Zone System.</p>

<p>I'm a Gossen fanboy. I have a Profisix and also the spot metering attachment for it.<br>

Its a bulky meter powered by common 9V battery content with NiMhs or NiCds too. The spot attachment can be switched to 10, 5 or 1° metering angle. Drawback of this combo: It doesn't feel intended for zone system users scanning their subject for contrast range etc. before they settle on their exposure. There is no meter readout inside the spot attachment's VF. The set works fine to meter a musician's face on stage though. The leather box of the spot attachment is roughly as bulky as a Leica M with 50mm but luckily lighter. <br>

I have a Soligor labeled Japanese 1° Spotmeter running on 9V battery too. It provides a digital readout inside the VF and you'll convert that one to exposure settings with a scale around the lens. The Soligor meter is flatter than the Gossen rig and probably comparable to Pentax' spot meters.<br>

TBH: Although I read Adams' books at least twice, I never got the hang of pre-visualzing according to the zone system. I barely ever took my spot meters out. - In an average situation I am happiest and content with a simple handheld meter that allows incident readings. <br>

What I also recommend from the Gossen product line is the Lunasix F. - Same size as Profisix but doesn't take attachments that have electric plugs like the 10 - 1° Spot. - It does take the "Tele" attachment though which permitts some aiming - 15 & 7.5°? I am not sure. - I got mine for 80 Euro on ebay with manual & tele attachment. Yes it does flash metering too if you press another button than for continious light but it is a decent once quite popular reliable meter and runs on 9V battery. <br>

Profi- & Lunasix aren't perfect for middle aged photographers postponing carrying reading glasses with them. - Gossen's more recent digital display meters like Variosix F are way easier to read but make it harder to switch from incident to reflective reading since you have to store the hemisphere above the sensor somewhere. The Variosix seems to drain more battery than the older models but isn't as bad as a Sekonic yet. <br>

If I had to prepare a film vacation, I'd leave the bulky spot attachment at home. But I am more the happy snapper type. Getting used to the zone system is probably handy if you have multiple film magazines and a chance to process their content differently. </p>

<p>Hi Ryan I shoot as an amatuer with an RB67 and use a Minolta Autometer IIIf (the f is for flash reading). If you get the Minolta, you have to get a separate attachment for reflected readings - either 5 degrees or 10 degrees). Otherwise, the Autometer can only measure incident readings. I have the 5 degree attachment. Very good unit for incident, reflective and flash, and under $100 on Ebay, get from a reputable seller.<br>

If I was to buy today, I'd go for the IV (or IVf) model which comes with a unique on-off switch for power. The IIIf has to be switched a certain way otherwise you drain the battery. But the IV comes with a completely separate switch to shut it off.</p>

<p>I tried using a cell phone program, but it just isn't as accurate especially in difficult lighting. You're better off with a dedicated light meter that you get use too and can rely upon. PS I also bracket my landscape pictures as I figure film is cheap compared to my time and energy.<br>

Keep details of the meter readings and the settings you used. That way, when you get the film back, you can compare and learn from the results. Chrome type film will tell you immediately if the correct exposure was used. Negative film is trickier. I get a contact from my developer so I can check which ones are best. As an aside, what are you going to do with the chromes or negatives? Wet print? Scan for the web or digitat printing? That's a whole other topic you're going to be faced with.</p>

<p><br />Good luck with the camera. And meter.</p>

 

<p>You most certainly do NOT need a spotmeter. I'd strongly encourage you to become familiar with the "sunny-16" rule to enhance your knowledge of exposure in general, and when and if you do get a meter that you use the computer between your ears first and see how the result compares to a metered reading - year after year until it becomes a routine activity like brushing your teeth in the morning. Over many years I've used good reflective and incident meters, and for the type of photography you indicate you are interested in, I'd encourage you to go with a good incident meter...you'll eventually find that often you can take a meter reading and shoot for hours without taking another reading as long as the lighting hasn't significantly changed or make "sunny-16" adjustments if it incrementally does. If the whole exposure thing is new or confusing to you, get your hands on a copy of "Light, Science & Magic". Good luck with your new camera and happy shooting.</p>

<p>Close to 15 years ago I splurged on a Sekonic (758?) - couldn't be happier with it. I use it in incident mode 95% of the time and it's served me very well. </p>

<p>I agree with Stephen that a spotmeter isn't a requirement. However, I disagree that using the sunny 16 rule is going to work for you unless you shoot mainly in the middle of the day, when the light is fairly consistent. If you're shooting landscapes, you'll want to look for good lighting which often occurs early in the morning or late in the day. The magical hours of light for photography. The amount of light is changing too quickly to rely on sunny 16 rules. You'll find a greater need for a lightmeter during those periods. Even then I bracket. </p>

<p>I would be interested to know why you feel you need a spotmeter. I have a Pentax spotmeter, I virtually never use it, not least because the engraved figures on the dial are incredibly small and hard to read in anything but bright light. Sekonic in fact make meters at a number of different prices, I personally have two examples of the L-308 and find this is a highly portable package that gives me all the information I need. I also have an L-458, this is handy for more complicated readings but again, I rarely use it outside the studio, not least because switching between incident and reflected light measurement means taking one attachment off and putting another one on, and there is no space in the case for the attachment not currently in use.<br>

For your purposes virtually any good quality meter capable of incident and reflected measurement will be fine. The cheapest possibility that I know would be a Russian Leningrad meter, these work surprisingly well and can be bought for peanuts. 10 or 15 years ago I would have had no hesitation in recommending a late-model Weston meter (Master V or Euromaster), but these are now old enough to have potential drift problems, although many examples still work fine. For sheer convenience, it's hard to beat a Gossen Digisix, this is really tiny and fits into any pocket but works well. </p>

What sort of films are you planning to use? If slide film is part of your mix the you do absolutely need a spot meter in my

view- and I have a lot of experience behind that. If otoh you are using B&W or more especially colour neg. then you can

successfully use whatever type of metering takes your fancy since the greater dynamic range and latitude of those films

makes metering a lot easier.

 

I have to say though that I have always found the reflective meters using a wide angle of acceptance no use at all. You

have no clear idea where these meters are getting their readings from and the tiniest hand movement often produces

quite large changes in reading. So for me it's spotmeter for slides , but for other film types you can if you wish save a bit

by using incident meters. If you get a spotmeter , get one with a small spot-ideally 1 degree, so you're sure what you're

actually metering.

 

If you decide on a spotmeter then I'd look at one of the Sekonic spot/incident meters such as the 508,608, 758, 558 that

are all available used

<p>I'm a long time (well over 35 years) Gossen Profisix, Lunasix and Lunasix F user (had occasional stints with Minolta and other brand meters meters like Broncolor and Bowens, but the Gossens are my own), used them back in the film days, and occasionally still use the Lunasix F when shooting in the studio.</p>

<p>IMO if you work under day light, or artificial (eg stage, or at night in the street) the easiest option is to simply use your DSLR. Biggest advantage is that you immediately can see if you're on mark, and if necessary can make the necessary adjustments, reshoot and have immediate feedback again.</p>

<p>Back in the film shooting days that was what Polaroid (backs) were used for, and even that wasn't 100% foolproof, since the Polaroids only had a limited range of ISO options.<br>

So if you shot slower or faster (then the ISO of the Polaroids, which was the case most of the time) films, you still had to make an educated guess on how to interpret/translate the values found for the Polaroids back to the film used.</p>

<p>Also, using a hand held meter isn't as simple as just point, take a reading, set the camera and shoot.<br>

If you really want to get a 'perfect' exposure, you'll need to take a reading on the highest lit part, and then of the darkest one/deepest shadows.<br>

Then you'll have to find/guess/decide on the hopefully correct balance between the two to again hopefully get an exposure that will leave your highlights bright, but not burnt out, and your darkest shadows as dark as possible without blackening completely (and in the worst case thus lose all details).<br>

Of course you can also use a grey card (contrary to it's used very often nowadays it's not intended to find the correct color balance, but to get the correct exposure on '18% average' grey), but you'll still have take into account whether you hold it in a well lit, or dark/shadow spot.<br>

Also you'll have to take into account the kind film you use, rule of thumb negative film best slightly over exposed, slides best slightly under exposed.<br>

And, when getting the 'perfect' exposure is critical (eg product shoots on slide film in a studio), to be really sure, you'll have to take multiple shots and bracket/at various different exposures (the reason for all the large format film cassettes when shooting products, particularly in the studio)</p>

<p>A DSLR will give immediate feedback (no more Polaroids, which BTW are getting harder and harder to get anyway, even despite the Impossible project), and also is much more easier to make changes in the settings, and just as fast see the results.</p>

<p>Only reason I still use my Lunasix F at times n the studio is when I use studio flash units like my Hensels or Bowens, since I don't can't use my DSLR's TTL metering with those (I know, some studio units allow TTL metering, but I see the urgent need for the extra expense to get that 'option').<br>

Also a hand held meter will allow getting a much better balance between the different lights, again very important when shooting a product/subject where the contrast between highlights and shadows are critical.</p>

<p>I don't find a spotmeter very practical (have used my Profisix with the spot metering attachments, as well as with other 'dedicated' spotmeters)<br>

To really take advantage of such a meter you again need to know exactly on what part(s) to take your readings, and still have to make an educated guess for the 'correct' balance between the readings on the highlights, and on the deepest shadows.<br>

So it's still a 'take a set of readings, make an educated guess to get the hopefully 'correct' balance, shoot, maybe even bracket and reshoot.<br>

Not a problem with landscapes (if you have plenty of time and don't have to take the changing light into account, e.g. when shooting at sunrise or sunset), product (in a studio), maybe even people (when shooting in a studio, and they're not busy, easily distracted subject like e.g. children)<br>

<br />So IMO and experience not an real world option when having to shoot fast, or under (rapidly) changing conditions, or with lively subjects.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Curious. I just bought a Sony R100M4 1" digital P&S camera that has spot, center weighted and matrix metering. It's really small and I can keep it in my pants or jacket pocket. Anyone with experience using a digital camera for film metering (I shoot MF Velvia 50 chromes 6x7) and/or BW (I use MF 6x7 Tmax 100)? If so, what recommendations would you give for its use in place of a dedicated hand-held light meter? </p>

<p>I agree with Paul and Jochen about the Gossen models which take 9 volt batteries. I do not understand why "landscapes and travel photgraphy" require a spot meter. A meter which does incident and reflected light readings is entirely adequate.</p>

<p>If you can afford the price of a used Pentax Spotmeter then you can afford a brand new multi function meter from Sekonic, Gossen and Kenko like the L-758, Starlite 2, and KFM-2200. They have all the functions you might need.</p>

<blockquote>

<p> I do not understand why "landscapes and travel photgraphy" require a spot meter. A meter which does incident and reflected light readings is entirely adequate.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Perhaps you can wake up Ansel Adams to ask him the question. We all know most of his photographs are about landscape and yes he traveled quite a bit for his photographs. He used the spotmeter whenever he can (that is when there is one he could buy, he used the Weston when there was no spotmeter available).</p>

<p>BeBu: An L-758 new is around $600 compared to $100-200 for a used Pentax Spotmeter. That's quite a difference. Also, Ansel shot individuals negatives in 8x10 so the zone system and spot metering made more sense than the OP's use of film rolls for his RB67. You can't develop the roll differently for different pictures so the zone system is of less value. That doesn't negate the use of a spotmeter. It's just that one would use it somewhat differently than Ansel.</p>

<p>Actually, one of the arguments for medium format with interchangeable film backs is the ability to have backs for normal, +1 and -1 development so that you can develop your film according to what the original scene requires. And I personally have found knowing the zone system to be of great value for all of my photography--B&W landscape as well as studio color work.</p>

<p>Alan I just disagree that landscape photographers don't need spotmeter. I think it's landscape photography that the spotmeter is needed the most. Not so much if you do portrait, wedding, even sport that you would need a spotmeter as much as landscape. Of course any or no meter may be sufficient but to say a landscape photographer doesn't need the spotmeter but others do is wrong.</p>

<p>Bebu, I use a spot meter regularly in studio and out to quickly dial in my bg brightness or shade of gels. It tells me when I have just enough light on the seamless to minimize or eliminate spill. All from my stool. I too shoot some with an RB67 and use a spot meter to place tones that are important. I roughly check my exposure on a digital camera but my b&w film has a wider dynamic range than my sensor so I have a built in safety margin. </p>

<p>In landscape photography, the subject may be many miles away where the photographer can not reach to measure the incident light, so we use reflectant meter, like a spot meter. I do not want to spend a few hundreds dollars for the meter, so I use a digicam instead if it is of any help. </p>