Mistakes to avoid as an amateur/hobbyist photographer

<p>I've been reading a lot of discussions (here and elsewhere) about photography, and I noticed that some professionals complain about amateur/hobbyist photographers. I'd like to avoid the mistakes they complain about, so I've given the complaints some thought, and I think they fall into three basic categories:</p>

<ol>

<li>Lack of etiquette / interfering. For instance, trying to shoot while a professional is taking formals at a wedding. I can avoid this kind of mistake.</li>

<li>Overestimating one's skills (or underestimating the skills of the professionals). As in, thinking that buying a DSLR makes you a photographer. I'm already very well aware that that is not the case; photography is hard!</li>

<li>Amateurs provide lower-price (or, in some cases, free) competition.</li>

</ol>

<p>I'd like to ask especially about #3, since I'm not quite sure what to do about it. In photography, as in pretty much anything else, the adage "you get what you pay for" holds true. Assuming you don't misrepresent yourself to a client, is there anything wrong with being a cheaper option to a professional photographer? Or should I just interpret this as general grumbling because competition does make life harder, and ignore it? (Or is it possible that complaints like #3 are mostly due to factors #1 and #2?)</p>

<p>More broadly, as I mentioned at the beginning, I want to be respectful and act professionally, even if I'm not pursuing photography as a career. So what mistakes do amateurs often make that you complain about (that I haven't touched on)? What should I avoid?</p>

<p>How about not acting professionally. BE professional and mature as an adult in your approach. Simple but generally forgotten common courtesy will afford you better treatment, and open photography doors for you to pursue as an amateur.</p>

<p>As a photographer, your eyes should be wide open and the mind aware of your surroundings. Observing the details and respecting other people can be beneficial. Some people do not like to be photographed so respect their wishes and not get in their faces about it. Being rude and obnoxious is a deal killer on the social front and dating circles.</p>

<p>I find the best way to get a photo you want is to both work hard at getting it but also be in the background of your surroundings. An observer of what is going on around you and not an active participant. Something like a fly on the wall. then I buzz off looking for the next subject.</p>

<p>CHEERS...Mathew</p>

<p>(some) professional photographers are like farmers, they always find something to complain about ;-)</p>

<p>The point is that anyone can call him/herself a professional photographer and many do nowadays taking on jobs not understanding (or caring) that they will be out of their depth. That is because there are too many people who's ego exceeds their talent but since there are also a lot of people who want it on the cheap it's not going to change.<br>

I don't work as a pro and only take on the odd commissioned job but when I do I make sure I can deliver. It's not just amateurs though. I've seen a few full-time pro's bodging up a job because they were out of their depth.</p>

<p>As for etiquette there are some things that are definitely not done. I was asked a few years ago to scan a few photos by a collegue and I said sure but when she presented them they turned out to be high quality 6x6 contact prints from her children given her to choose from by a professional studio photographer. That pissed me off because would I have done that it would have meant that he would have lost out on income and while she probably had someone else do it instead it's a definite no-no.</p>

<p>From a amateur's perspective, I can see how ones enthusiasm for a new hobby can be perceived as insensitivity toward others, but really, is it so hard to accommodate? We've all seen the classic uncle Bob at weddings only because they stand out, not because they actually do any harm to the working pro.</p>

<p>I think some are with manners and considerate of others while some aren't; it's the same whether you're in a theatre watching a movie or in line at the cash. Photography isn't different therefore I wouldn't take a pro's rant overly seriously. </p>

<p>We all start somewhere. So a pro having too much ego or attitude towards the guests is annoying too. Some pros need to be reminded: This is John & Mary's wedding, not their "photo shoot".</p>

<p>When you go to a wedding as a guest, you should behave as one. You shouldn't pester anyone that is working at the wedding.</p>

<p>The only reason that I ever objected to someone shooting wedding formals over my shoulder. Is to keep all "eyes" looking at the correct lens. After I get my shots, I don't care if their favorite uncle shoots my set ups.</p>

<p>Photography isn't hard, nor is rebuilding a car's auto transmission. But I wouldn't attempt either without the needed skills and experience.</p>

<p>As for getting what you pay for. A wedding photographer needs to be able to present the couple with a book of images that resemble his "selling sample" album. Not a lot of excuses. Wedding photography is a lot like driving too fast on a slippery road. If you aren't careful and you start to slide off the road, it is then too late to do anything about it.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Assuming you don't misrepresent yourself to a client, is there anything wrong with being a cheaper option... <a href="../casual-conversations-forum/00Xg4P?unified_p=1" target="_blank"></a>?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>No.</p>

<p>Not a pro, but as an amateur, never give our work away for free. At least some of what you do will be of professional quality, so don't give it away, presents or gifts not withstanding.</p>

<p>This was advice taht was given to me by a pro photog/camera shop owner in Tel Aviv. Some of my landscapes were much much better then what was being published, of the exact same scenes. In his store I gave away a great photo he had processed for me, I was properly scolded.</p>

<p>I agree that you get what you pay for; so if someone wants to pay $200 for a wedding photographer, then they will get 1/5th the quality of a $1000 photographer, if they're lucky. The only problem with this is that wedding photography isn't a repeat customer business. Its not like if someone hires a bad photographer they'll get the professional next time, because there isn't a next time. That's what makes it hard, is getting the customer to pay the premium price without ever hiring a photographer before. Now I try to do my part with helping the pros. My friend is one of the most sought after wedding photogs in the city, and any time someone asks me to shoot their wedding I tell them that I don't have what it takes and this is the one day of your life that you don't want to screw up, so if the photos are important then pay more for a great photographer. </p>

<blockquote>

<p>because there isn't a next time</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Well, not quite. (see http://www.divorcereform.org/rates.html ). But usually not <em>often enough</em> to really speak of "repeat business". Also, I'd guess there is not so much tendency for the second marriage to be covered by a photographer anyhow. :|</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>never give our work away for free.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>There's no reason you are obligated or should even feel obligated to follow this instruction just given to you. Moreover, its not "our" work. It's YOURS to do with as you please. This whole notion that someone making images (or other things) means they owe other people anything or cannot give things away that belong to them is nonsense, notwithstanding the rantings of some shopkeeper in Tel Aviv.</p>

<p>Failing to ask to criticism. When you think about it that is what photo school is about. Then be willing to listen to the criticism w/o feeling line someone just called your baby ugly. Also, not taking them time to judge others photograph critically, really look at what is right and what is wrong with any photograph.<br>

remember the rules:<br>

if you think you are close enough get closer<br>

if you think you are low enough get lower<br>

fill the frame up.<br>

Work for a good negative, it is abut 1000X easier to get a good print if you have a good negative.<br>

Take lots of photographs, don't be afraid to try something different.</p>

<p>Very nice of you to pose the question. My only issue is #3. My suggestion is that when you provide a valuable service, you should charge for it, unless perhaps it's for family. The better your work, the more you should charge. Nobody can make any sort of living trying to sell services that are otherwise free. If the problem grows large enough, the profession dies. Of course that's my problem, not yours. But again, I very much appreciate your sensitivity to this issue.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>My suggestion is that when you provide a valuable service, you should charge for it, unless perhaps it's for family. The better your work, the more you should charge. Nobody can make any sort of living trying to sell services that are otherwise free.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Making a suggestion to do this is better than the previously mentioned approach where we were <strong>told</strong> not to give work to others and that doing so deserves a "proper scolding". Nevertheless, its no different than going around 'suggesting' that people with plumbing skills should require payment for helping others as some sort of duty to plumbers. Its not a polite suggestion that handiwork never go unpaid because some people have that job. Same with those who cook meals, clean stuff, help with auto repairs, ect.</p>

<p>Its poor etiquette to go around lecturing people that they should charge everybody for what they so and not do anybody favors just because one happens to be in that field. Sure, we may prefer the market value of photographic be maximized but, the sense of entitlement prevalent in the photography field with lecturing others not to do what they have every moral right to do, in any other undertaking, has a certain amount of hubris to it. As long as no one is misrepresenting anything, there is absolutely nothing wrong with anyone giving away their time and stuff if they want to.</p>

<p>I quite agree with you there John. It would be a pretty messed up world if nobody ever did anyone a favour.</p>

<p>I also agree with John.</p>

<p>"So what mistakes do amateurs often make that you complain about (that I haven't touched on)? What should I avoid?"<br>

1) Placing too much emphasis on equipment.<br>

2) Treating photography as if it were Physics or Algebra.<br>

3) Charging some clients while not charging other clients, undercutting.<br>

4) Getting into/Starting flame wars such as Film vs Digtal, Nikon vs Canon, 35mm vs 120 etc.</p>

<p>Thanks for your responses. It seems that most people feel like charging based on your skill level (and thus, charging less as an amateur, generally) is appropriate. There were some good points about etiquette and professionalism, as well as some mistakes I hadn't thought of, like not asking for criticism or trying to make photography into a science. I look forward to learning more without (hopefully) making too many mistakes like these! I'd much rather save my mistakes for experimenting with photos and trying new/unfamiliar techniques. :) And once I get some shots I feel are worthy of being critiqued, I'll certainly be inviting criticism.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>What should I avoid?<br>

3) Charging some clients while not charging other clients, undercutting.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>or replace number 3 above with "Don't go around trying to tell other people what to charge for their services."</p>

<blockquote>

<p>as an amateur, never give our work away for free</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yeah, make you ungrateful sister PAY for those shots you took at her wedding, darn it! ;-D</p>

<p>How about:</p>

<p>(1) Make a lot of exposures and see what works.</p>

<p>(2) Don't listen to what other people say about how you should shoot.</p>

<p>I also agree with John. When a family member or friend expresses interest in a particular image, I would give them a print. I also donate my work to worthy organizations for hanging or for publication.</p>

<p>While I give away my work for free, I do demand respect from the recipients. For my gifts to my family and friends, I get that since they show an interest to begin with. I don't ever give them prints that they don't show any interest in. For my donations to the organizations, I would request credit be given to me as a criteria.</p>

<p>Perhaps a better advice to the amateurs and beginners is: maintain your self esteem and don't cheapen your work. That is different from saying, "don't give your work away for free."</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Perhaps a better advice to the amateurs and beginners is: maintain your self esteem and don't cheapen your work. That is different from saying, "don't give your work away for free."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes, actual advice is good and its naturally appropriate to offer advice to help somebody succeed at their business, to suggest that there is more value in their imagery then they realize or that they need not be bashful for seeking it. (If anything, there's all those 'what should I charge' questions to answer). The issue with the earlier posts is that it was described as a 'scolding' for not living up to someone else's standards and for the benefit of those that are in the industry. A 'you need to conform and do what we want' attitude more than a 'you might be better off if you try to seek more fully the financial value of your work' approach.</p>

<p>A while back one gal wrote that she suggested a amateur charge for some photos a business wanted to use and the photographer indicated that she wanted to give away the images anyway. The poster then went on about how insulting that was to her and how she makes a living and asked for aideas on how to write an indicting letter to this person for daring to assault the pro's sensibilities and all their hard labor ect. That's the ultimate in the telling people what to do attitude and is in contrast to offering advice to someone who may not realize the value of what they have. While there was probably intention to help in the other posts in this thread, the wording suggested that it was incidental to the other themes.</p>

<p>John, I think I suddenly like you a lot less.</p>

<p>Well, addressing your points, let's see... In one case there is the matter of giving away work to family and friends. I have no problem with that. I never have. I do it too. (Please see my post, above.)</p>

<p>And then there's the matter of someone starting a business (intended to earn money) in which they need professional quality photographs, and then having the nerve to ask a community of photographers for free work to be used in that profitable business. I took very strong exception to that. I still do. So kill me.</p>

<p>If there's any softening in my position, it's only because I've come to accept that the profession is already dead (simply going through its customary dying gasps, etc.).</p>

<p>Again, I very much appreciate the OP's sensitivity to this issue. Not many people are thoughtful enough to give a flying fig whether other people lose their livelihood.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>A while back one gal wrote that she suggested a amateur charge for some photos a business wanted to use and the photographer indicated that she wanted to give away the images anyway. The poster then went on about how insulting that was to her and how she makes a living and asked for aideas on how to write an indicting letter to this person for daring to assault the pro's sensibilities and all their hard labor ect.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>And frankly I'm a bit confused as to what the @#$% you're talking about. Something about an indicting letter letter? Huh? Are you talking about something else? I don't understand.</p>

<p>Thread closed. Chill out people.</p>