Brad_

>>> It might be our faculty for empathy that draws us into such a narrative and creates for us a sense of essence (recognition??) as the term is widely used. For sure! I think if one knows personally or knows of a subject, one can go out on a limb and say that a photo compliments or may represent attributes of a subject, which could concentrate into a sense of essence - but that is with the benefit of �subject à priori knowledge. Without that you're just guessing. Considering Fred's photos above, because I do not know personally or know of Gerald (other than he might be a friend of Fred), they tell me nothing about his personality, character, attributes, nature, or other properties of what he is about that would ultimately concentrate into an "essence." I could guess, but that's all it would be. The two photos do tell me what he looks like in two different situations.

>>> Is it possible to capture a subject's essence in a photograph? No. Of course a viewer can feel an essence was captured having benefit of �à priori knowledge about a subject. I think some are confusing this with the ability of photos of unknown people having power and the ability to release (some kind of) narrative.

The video Ellis referenced is excellent and very revealing - I've loaned the DVD out to at least a dozen people over the years. Also, the book "Avedon at Work: In the American West" by his assistant Laura Wilson complements nicely shedding light on his character while engaging subjects. I like Wilson's book just as much as In the American West as it reveals a lot about his engagement process as he and his assistants went from location to location.

I really don't see any high-key photos here. For examples, simply google "high key photos" and select the Images option. High key means details are in the highlights. High contrast photos are called... high contrast.

<center> .<P> <img src= "http://www.citysnaps.net/2014%20Photos/Man%20and%20dog.jpg"><BR> <i> San Francisco • ©Brad Evans 2014 </i> <P> .<P> </center>

Tim, it's a funny book and a good read. Might even provide some project inspiration.

<center> .<P> <img src= "http://www.citysnaps.net/2014%20Photos/HomeLab.jpg"><BR> <i> My Digital Darkroom • San Francisco • ©Brad Evans 2014 </i> <P> .<P> </center>

>>> Apple played a similar game with the fusion drive; a combination SSD and hard drive. The 128gb SSD was very fast when new. but once data shifted to the 1TB HDD the performance dropped. The testers used new Fusion drives. How is *Apple* playing a "game?"

>>> Pointing & pushing an iPhone button is not remotely close to street photography, whether it be environmental portraits or documentaries. It's really a joke Why not, Ken? And why is it a joke?

Excellent move, Fred. I corrected your misunderstanding and it baffles why you want to hang on to it.

Sorry Fred, it isn't at all, and still not true.

>>> Brad, that's the crux of our disagreement, and the only reason I've been involved in this discussion, because I think you and Eric are looking down on them. No Fred, you are wrong, and apparently don't understand that celebrating those with drive and determination in pursuing their dreams does not come with the consequence of looking down on others that choose or are not able to go down that path. >>> You come off, at least to me, as pontificating about those who can do it all. No, I offered a personal first-hand experience anecdote to add to the discussion underway. I understand that's not particularly interesting to you, but it may be to others who believe a 40 hour a week job is an automatic barrier to pursuing one's dream(s).

Thank you Fred for the very nice homage to the many people who were, for various reasons, not able to follow their dreams. I think you could have also included many hundred other classes, with at least 200 million other people in the US alone. Many books could be written about those people unable to embrace their passion. It goes without saying, again, that nobody here is looking down on them.. This thread diversion, however, is about those who have decided to follow their dreams in photography and chose not to rely on the very reflexive, "yeah but I have a 40 hour a week job." Personally, I find those stories much more interesting and rewarding, especially understanding how those people were able to accomplish their goals and still lead regular family lives without compromise. It's wonderful that some have the drive and determination, will take some risk, and are able excel. You may feel differently, but in my book they are worthy of celebration. Fortunately, for the benefit of others, there are people like that across all disciplines and professions. >>> And I have much respect for the single woman who manages a 40-hour-a-week job and takes care of other responsibilities she's taken on. And thank you for the hat-tip to my mother. However, despite her enormous responsibilities and living in difficult times, being a very determined person she was still able to pursue her passion, which happened to be art.

That's a great story, Eric. Much respect... It's been great watching my good friend Travis Jensen over the last four or five years. Being relatively new to photography, he's come very far in a short period of time. He's extraordinarily talented and passionate, with *nothing* getting in his way with his laser sharp focus, drive, and determination. He's done commercial projects as well as branding campaigns for clothing lines, skate scene products, bags, a hotel branding project in Los Angeles, many charity-based photo projects helping disadvantaged youth on the street, and has a major project going on right now - all from his SF-based street photography that's very energetic and unique. Bodies of his work have been in SF Magazine many times and has had many exhibitions. I'm certain there are things I've forgotten about and left out. Absolutely no doubt in my mind he'll go very far. What's great, is he's doing all of that on *his* terms, in a manner that dovetails with who he is and what he's about. No sucking up to the "overlords" in the sp world with their followers looking for acceptance and guidance. He manages that with loads of regular life responsibilities, working crazy hours under pressure at a large global law firm in SF, spending time with his friends, helping at-risk youth embrace cameras (instead of guns) organizing a photo club, and most importantly spending a ton of time with his 3 and 5 year old sons and is one of the most committed fathers I've seen. He enjoys an amazing family life. Speaking of commitment, a couple years ago he had an SLR tattooed on his arm integrating in with his other tats. While others pontificate and make justifications, he's making it happen.

>>> So whose definition of success are we using here? Up above, as a metric, I was using your: "Many of the photographer we admire had the luck of knowing the right people who were instrumental in them getting grants and such," i.e., the admired well-known photographers. The point I was trying to make is, if that's what you're looking for, that path is available - if you have the drive, outstanding work, and the hustle to make it happen.

Fred, that's all true, of course, and goes without saying. I'm offering my personal observations from knowing many dozens of photographers, over many years. Yes, they are anecdotal, but after time it's quite easy to see what drives success, and easier to see what doesn't. Is that foolproof? Of course not.

>>> Its quite ok to make a choice, but a choice isn't an excuse. The decision is, obviously, ultimately a choice. But for some, or perhaps many, that can be driven by excuses, i.e. the reflexive I have a 40 hour a week job. Also, some may feel and perhaps really are motivated, but for whatever reason are not able to produce the consistent level of work necessary to gain notice, or do not have the energetic drive to make things happen with respect to opportunities. Thus the above: "I think it is much more about embracing a strong commitment/drive ethic. That's evident in the consistently excellent work they produce, the high standards they impose on themselves, and the connections fostered through relentless pursuits." Without outstanding work and holding oneself to very high standards, or not having the hustle and drive to make things happen, it's difficult to see how that can lead to the level of success this latest diversion of the conversation is premised on and under discussion, i.e. "Many of the photographer we admire had the luck of knowing the right people who were instrumental in them getting grants and such. "

>>> Many of the photographer we admire had the luck of knowing the right people who were instrumental in them getting grants and such. … A 40 hour work week is much longer then 40 hours when you factor in commute times and such. I'm lucky that I have what little time do to devote to photography. I think it is much more about embracing a strong commitment/drive ethic. That's evident in the consistently excellent work they produce, the high standards they impose on themselves, and the connections fostered through relentless pursuits. That's what I see coming from the people I know who have made something happen with respect to their photography. Sorry, the 40 hours a week regular job getting in the way just doesn't wash. It's an excuse.

On the subject of the de Young, as an aside, I wonder how effective their timed entry strategy really is managing special exhibit traffic. Sometimes I think it produces higher concentrations of viewers compared to the old random entry policy.

Fred, I think you are addressing something very different than what was expressed by Marie and Jeff. Still, I hear you. Not sure what the solution is on that other than to gently push back on the worst offenders. I suppose you can at least feel a bit lucky your 6'4" height does have some advantages in environments like that!

Adding to what Jeff said... The nexus of low cost cameras and social media has produced large numbers of photographers who otherwise would not be pursuing artistic endeavors. To me that democratization is a good thing. In the end, good work will still rise to the top. Yes, there are now aspects of "street photography" that are hyped to almost TV reality show proportions. My recommendation is to get off the giving-a-crap treadmill and just do your own thing. Photographer Pedro Meyer of Zone Zero in a past essay asked (highly paraphrased) if something similar had happened causing more people to get into creative writing, would there have been similar pushback from “serious writers” feeling that their field of expression has been sullied? That's a good question to ponder.

>>> I'd love to see your family photos even though it's kind of unfair for me to ask since I won't show you mine. Julie, why is it you won't show yours? It does seem unfair, or at least a little odd asking everyone to post photos and stories at your request, while at the same time refusing to share yours.

>>> I'd love to see your family photos even though it's kind of unfair for me to ask since I won't show you mine. Show me yours anyway?<P> OK. My mother's big joy in life was hitting garage sales, flea markets, and thrift stores looking for paintings that she liked, usually paying just a few bucks, sometimes a little more. She was mostly into early California landscape impressionism, but had a good eye for other genres, such as the one in the photo below.<P> <center> <img src= "http://www.citysnaps.net/2014%20Photos/Katie700.jpg"> </center>