mike_halliwell Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 Tried the Z8 2.0 with Bird Mode yesterday at the local Hawk and Owl centre having set the AF mode onto Ln2 on the 500mm PF. I set it to spot, custom wide and Auto AF. After about 1/2 hour I removed custom wide, so just Spot or Auto AF. Auto AF with Bird Mode was very good even with far-off birds. Better than the Z9, I think. I've got some fine art to shoot next week, I'll give Pixel Shift a go 🙂 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 I also found the new bird AF works great. It's able to handle many situations in auto area. With swans I don't think I've had any previous camera return to the bird's face as consistently and quickly as the Z8 FW 2.0 did (after the neck has been submerged under water), using either 3D tracking or auto area. Especially 3D tracking seems to have improved over my past experiences. With people subjects, I didn't notice any obvious change but I had multiple people in the frame and focusing on human subjects has always been very good with this camera. I will do some tests of 3D tracking when the subject turns their face away temporarily to see if there is improvement in how the system sticks to the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgelfand Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Very nice shot, Mike. Who was flying the hawk? were they hunting it or was it at a bird park/zoo? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_halliwell Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 16 minutes ago, bgelfand said: Who was flying the hawk? Very interesting bird. African Hawk-Eagle. He was an intercepted smuggled bird, had a rough deal with bad humans. He rejected any 'perch to glove work', standard falconing routine, and now just does his own thing, within reason! But to answer your question.... 😉 https://www.hawk-conservancy.org/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgelfand Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Mike, thank you very much for the information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Di Leo Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 On 2/7/2024 at 11:25 AM, ShunCheung said: I checked various forum and FaceBook groups. It looks like everybody is upgrading their Z8 just fine. I just upgraded myself and it took a bit less than 5 minutes. So far no issues. Very happy to have bird AF on my Z8 now, just like the Z9. Is a dedicated card reader required for the upgrade? It appears so on my MAC or can it be done in camera? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 7 hours ago, John Di Leo said: Is a dedicated card reader required for the upgrade? It appears so on my MAC or can it be done in camera? Snapbridge can also be used to upgrade firmware. However, I would just get the card reader for it has other benefits. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_halliwell Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Regarding tracking-whilst-panning and having VR set to SPORT, I wonder sometimes if the algorhythm could look more for non-moving, ie well panned 'objects' rather than trying to 'find' a bird or plane etc. If a BIF is crossing in front of you, and your panning technique is OK, everything but the bird is horizontally blurred, and in a fairly linear way. Equally, only look at pixels +/- 2m infront or behind those semi-static pixels, not the trees 20m away! Maybe it already does, but i've often seen the locked 'symbol' find a tree knot or some-such way, way further behind the bird. Maybe the experience/data from Auto Capture that focusses (sorry!) a-lot on distance info will trickle into future firmware as a kinda focus limiting feature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 On 2/17/2024 at 11:57 AM, mike_halliwell said: Regarding tracking-whilst-panning and having VR set to SPORT, I wonder sometimes if the algorhythm could look more for non-moving, ie well panned 'objects' rather than trying to 'find' a bird or plane etc. If a BIF is crossing in front of you, and your panning technique is OK, everything but the bird is horizontally blurred, and in a fairly linear way. Equally, only look at pixels +/- 2m infront or behind those semi-static pixels, not the trees 20m away! Maybe it already does, but i've often seen the locked 'symbol' find a tree knot or some-such way, way further behind the bird. Maybe the experience/data from Auto Capture that focusses (sorry!) a-lot on distance info will trickle into future firmware as a kinda focus limiting feature? I thought that detection something that moves in the frame could be a useful criteria for subject to be focused. When there is active movement in a scene it could focus on that subject automatically. So it's a bit opposite of what you'd like I guess? Degree of motion (terminology subject to precise definitions) could be used as a user-given parameter to characterise the subject to settle between such different requirements. However, when there are a lot of user-given parameters, in unexpected situations the values will most likely be off, with less desirable outcomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_halliwell Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 1 hour ago, ilkka_nissila said: I thought that detection something that moves in the frame could be a useful criteria for subject to be focused. When there is active movement in a scene it could focus on that subject automatically. So it's a bit opposite of what you'd like I guess? I guess if VR is set to SPORT, ie just stabilised in UP/DOWN, the assumption is you are panning... and if your technique is good the only thing not moving (much) in the frame is your target.... could be a Bird or a race Car. Just had a thought. I've not tried Bird Mode with 3D tracking yet. Maybe the distance criteria is addressed in that?. It never worked that well before, but it often didn't pick up birds before either, so not too surprising really! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 (edited) 2 hours ago, mike_halliwell said: I guess if VR is set to SPORT, ie just stabilised in UP/DOWN, the assumption is you are panning... and if your technique is good the only thing not moving (much) in the frame is your target.... could be a Bird or a race Car. Just had a thought. I've not tried Bird Mode with 3D tracking yet. Maybe the distance criteria is addressed in that?. It never worked that well before, but it often didn't pick up birds before either, so not too surprising really! Sport VR mode is not to do with axis of movement but it basically allows easier tracking of erratically moving subjects that change the direction of movement frequently, and basically leaves some of the movement not corrected so that the user can more easily follow the changing movement. Normal mode corrects more of the shake with the expense that it tends to be more difficult to track erratic movement and the image shifts more between shots as the correction of a single image is prioritised over easy tracking. Panning is recognized by either sport or normal mode. Using sport mode is not an indication that you are panning but shooting an erratically moving subject that can change direction at any time and you're willing to take a slight hit on the effectiveness of the stabilization as a trade-off for easier tracking and viewfinder stability. You may be better at it but when I'm panning and following a flying bird the bird is unlikely to stay in the same spot across the sequence and typically the wings show active movement it would be unusual for a static part in the frame to indicate the subject. I guess it's possible in a highly skilled pan to detect the subject based on its stability in the frame but not at my skill level. I am more willing to bet on the usefulness of detecting the part that is moving than the part that is not ... 😉 Edited February 18 by ilkka_nissila Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_halliwell Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Ah. OK. I'm obviously still in old fashioned mode ! "The VR Sport mode is designed specifically for situations in which a photographer needs to pan the camera, much like the Image Stabilizer Mode 2 on Canon lenses: “When shooting action, especially on a monopod, the VR Sport Mode recognizes a panning motion to provide accurate compensation for camera shake, resulting in super-sharp images, with motion blur where the photographer intended,” Nikon says. https://petapixel.com/2015/01/05/heres-look-vr-sport-stabilization-nikons-new-12000-400mm-f2-8-lens/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 36 minutes ago, mike_halliwell said: Ah. OK. I'm obviously still in old fashioned mode ! "The VR Sport mode is designed specifically for situations in which a photographer needs to pan the camera, much like the Image Stabilizer Mode 2 on Canon lenses: “When shooting action, especially on a monopod, the VR Sport Mode recognizes a panning motion to provide accurate compensation for camera shake, resulting in super-sharp images, with motion blur where the photographer intended,” Nikon says. https://petapixel.com/2015/01/05/heres-look-vr-sport-stabilization-nikons-new-12000-400mm-f2-8-lens/ Well, different sources give slightly different explanations, here is one: https://nps.nikonimaging.com/technical_info/technical_solutions/d500_tips/useful/vibration_reduction/ "Sport mode limits vibration reduction to the minimum needed for subjects that are moving quickly and unpredictably. When the camera is hand-held, the image in the viewfinder remains as stable and smooth as when the camera is mounted on a monopod, making subjects easier to track during panning and high-speed burst photography. When the lens is mounted on a D500, all of this can be accomplished without reducing frame rate or increasing shutter lag. Sport mode balances vibration reduction with smooth display when you are photographing sports, aircraft, birds, or other moving subjects. Choose NORMAL for more powerful vibration reduction when photographing landscapes and other static subjects. The differences between sport and normal modes are summarized below. SPORT NORMAL Suited to Moving subjects Stationary subjects Motion in viewfinder Smooth Jerky Burst performance Better Worse " This is another: https://www.nikonimgsupport.com/eu/BV_article?articleNo=000044848&lang=en_GB Here it says "Normal mode is recommended for most general scenes. In this mode, slow and wide camera movement is regarded as the photographer recomposing a shot and blur-correction operation is limited accordingly. Normal mode also includes automatic panning detection." In the Z8 online reference manual, it says the following: " When [Normal] is selected for lenses that support vibration reduction, the image in the viewfinder may jiggle before the shutter is released, but this is a natural consequence of how vibration reduction is performed and does not indicate a malfunction. [Sport] or [Off] can be used should you find the motion distracting. [Normal] or [Sport] is recommended for panning shots. In [Normal] and [Sport] modes, vibration reduction applies only to motion that is not part of the pan. If the camera is panned horizontally, for example, vibration reduction will be applied only to vertical shake. [Normal] and [Sport] are also recommended if the camera is mounted on a tripod or monopod. Note, however, that [Off] may be a better choice with some tripods depending on shooting conditions. Settings may vary from lens to lens; consult the lens documentation for more information." So, either Normal or Sport VR is recommended for panning shots. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_halliwell Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 39 minutes ago, ilkka_nissila said: vibration reduction applies only to motion that is not part of the pan. If the camera is panned horizontally, for example, vibration reduction will be applied only to vertical shake. That's what i meant... 🤣 Maybe... 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Di Leo Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 On 2/17/2024 at 2:48 AM, ilkka_nissila said: Snapbridge can also be used to upgrade firmware. However, I would just get the card reader for it has other benefits. I thought I figured out a workaround with my old card reader, but I believe I was wrong. I thought I could load the firmware update on to an SD card, then insert it into the camera and upgrade. Nope. It needs to be in card slot 1 and that is the CFExpress slot it would appear? And I do not see a way to copy the bin file from the SD card to the CFE card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted February 20 Author Share Posted February 20 You should be able to upgrade the Z8 firmware using either an SD card or CFexpress/XQD card. It may help if the other card slot is empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_varrone Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 On 2/6/2024 at 10:31 PM, ShunCheung said: This is the link to download the new Z8 2.0 firmware: https://downloadcenter.nikonimglib.com/en/download/fw/514.html From Windows, this time you directly download the binary .bin file. There is no more executable archive from which you extract the binary. The changes are a mile long, very extensive. I have downloaded it, but I am going to wait a couple of days to see whether there are any issues before I update my Z8. Below in blue is Nikon's description among the many many changes in 2.0. Is there any news on a similar (or any substantial) FW update for the Z7-II ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Di Leo Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 10 hours ago, ShunCheung said: You should be able to upgrade the Z8 firmware using either an SD card or CFexpress/XQD card. It may help if the other card slot is empty. When I tried that last night it didn't work. On the Nikon website it states the bin file should be in Slot One, and that seems to be the CFX slot. I also tried using Snapbridge and kept running into obstacles, things like "cannot connect," requesting "PIN," enough to make me give up. Finally, somewhat frustrated and spending way too much time on it, I ordered a CFX/SD card reader from B&H and it should come Thursday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShunCheung Posted February 20 Author Share Posted February 20 2 hours ago, John Di Leo said: When I tried that last night it didn't work. On the Nikon website it states the bin file should be in Slot One, and that seems to be the CFX slot. I also tried using Snapbridge and kept running into obstacles, things like "cannot connect," requesting "PIN," enough to make me give up. Finally, somewhat frustrated and spending way too much time on it, I ordered a CFX/SD card reader from B&H and it should come Thursday. My Z8 already has firmware version 2.0. I just put the binary file for 1.01 on an SD card and inserted that card onto the Z8, while the CFexpress slot was empty. The Z8 indeed lets me "upgrade" (actually downgrade) from 2.0 to 1.01. I didn't actually go through it, but apparently you can upgrade the firmware with an SD card. Previously, I have upgraded the firmware on my Z6ii with an SD card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Di Leo Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 @Shun I think I have it. When I copied the bin file to the sd card, I think nikon said to put it in a certain folder. I first tried it in the DCIM folder—no go; then I put it in the Nikon...Z8 folder—still no go. I then just copied it to the folder "naked," ie, not in any folder, and it is recognized and updating as I write this. Thanks for making me persist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_halliwell Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Yup, the BIN file has to go the drive's root, as it were, not inside a folder or the camera can't find it. I think this is the first time I remember downloading the actual Firmware bin file without messing about with extracting compressed files to specified folders etc. Much better method 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkka_nissila Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 On a related note, Adobe launched pixel shift support for the Z8 in their software. I have not yet tried this feature but I suppose I could do some studio shots to see how the results look. I am sceptical about outdoor uses, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_halliwell Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 There's some chat around that NX Studio creates artefacts on merging..... and Adobe Lightroom doesn't on the same set. I find that hard to believe. Or maybe it was a landscape with waving trees or some such and not the same merge files? I tried it on a copystand shot of a nice fine-art postcard and got the sharpest and most noise free image with stunning halftone pattern. Didn't think of that 🤪 Will try some proper art at the weekend, but it looks promising. I'm guessing binning the resulting huge pixel file will further reduce noise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Di Leo Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 I'm loving the more visible focus box with 2.0, ie the thicker lines. In my shooting it makes for a huge difference in ease of focus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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