Nikon F + Assorted Lenses etc

[Ricochetrider]

Some years ago now, a good friend asked me if I wanted his old camera from ages ago?. I said Heck Yeah and he handed me this box. I glanced at it once, so knew it had a bunch of Nikon stuff in it but really never gave it a thought.

But recently I realized I have it and that I should perhaps be shooting this thing- or at least pull it all out to see what I was given. 
 

Honestly, I’Il take it out to shoot sometime soon but in the meantime, and I know this is a beast of an iconic camera. 
I conclude: a great gift! Even if the tele lens is cheesed! 

 

 

[ShunCheung]

That roll of Kodachrome probably has long expired. There is no longer any lab that can process it anyway. But you can buy some new film to try the Nikon F out.

[Sandy Vongries]

Do get it out of that foam.  IMHO It appears to be on the edge of a massive and messy failure that I have seen before.

[John Seaman]

I love those old Soligor lenses, they are beautifully made and engineered. I've got the slightly faster 200mm f/2.8, also a rather large 45-135mm f/3.5 zoom. Nikon fit third party lenses are perhaps less common than those in other mounts, as users preferred Nikkor glass.

[luis triguez]

http://www.luistriguez.es/fotos/cameras/nikonf/index_nikonftn.htm

[robert_bouknight1]

Hopefully the batteries in the meter head have not leaked out.  The F meters are getting iffy anyway, if it works it would be best to compare to something else to verify.

I like a good old 50/1.4 stopped down a little, and the 55/3.5 is very useful, mine sees operation almost every week.  

[Ricochetrider]

Thanks guys,

Sandy, yes man that foam is toast for sure. No worries there brother but thanks for the heads up. 

My camera, serial number 715xxxx, appears to have been produced from August to October 1970. 

I’d probably prefer to have a normal viewfinder and skip the metering and mucking about with the batteries -unless it’s a dead simple conversion. Looked at these early ish F cameras on eBay and asking prices aren’t astronomical. This 50mm lens, mounted on the camera, aperture ring is super stiff. Even the f1.4 50 has low asking prices. 
 

If I were going to acquire a lens for this F, is there a better 50mm than the f1.4? 
 

A friend of mine bought an old camera store in Reading Pennsylvania a couple years ago, about 50 ish miles from here. He has turned it into a premiere film camera shop with commercial film developing machines and scanners and is doing a booming business!

I might take the whole shooting match to him and trade in for another 35mm camera and matching 50; maybe I’d go for another Nikon F, or perhaps something with the same screw mount as the Praktica so I can shoot my Carl Zeiss lenses. 
 

Still think I’ll fire at least one roll of film thru this beastie tho, just to see what happens. 
 

[Ricochetrider]

Does anyone know- Is there a source for a user manual for this 1970 version of the Nikon F, possibly also featuring an addendum for the metering viewfinder? 

[Sandy Vongries]

If you can find a copy of the Nikon / Nikkormat Handbook by Joseph D. Cooper published by EPOI when they repped for Nikon in the U.S, you will get what you need.  The late, loose leaf set of binders is the last version.  If you can't find something, I can look and scan a few pages for you from my set.

[robert_bowring]

Use it. You will like it. It is great camera and built like a brick. There are a lot of lenses available at reasonable prices. If I was going to get another 50mm lens I would get the 50mm f2 lens. I like it better than the 50mm f1.4. As for the batteries I use the CRIS Camera adapters. You will need 2 of them. I have the manuals for the camera, the FTN finder and the 55 mm micro lens. You could probably find them on ebay. If not I could make copies for you.  I could make copies and send them to you. 

[robert_bowring]

You said that you would probably like a normal viewfinder. You may change your mind when you see what the regular prism/finder sells for. A nice one goes for ridiculous money. Even if you can not get the meter to work you can still use the finder you have.

[peter_frank]

7 hours ago, Ricochetrider said:

Does anyone know- Is there a source for a user manual for this 1970 version of the Nikon F, possibly also featuring an addendum for the metering viewfinder? 

A manual for the Nikon F and Photomic finder can be found at https://butkus.org/chinon/nikon/nikon_f_photomic_t/nikon_f_photomic_t.htm

[Rick Helmke]

One thing no one has mentioned is slow shutter speeds. If that camera has been sitting for an extended period, more than a year or so, shutter speeds 1/15 and slower can get unreliable and may not complete the cycle, locking the camera up. I would cycle the shutter a hundred or more times at faster speeds and then go very gradually through slower speeds, maybe 30 times at 1/15, again at 1/8 paying very close attention that the shutter completes the cycle each time and doesn’t sound likes it’s having a mechanical issue or not completing the cycle ie. not opening and then fully closing. It’s a problem on the F and F2. Also never leave the shutter cocked for more than a few hours, especially if the camera isn’t used on a regular basis. Even when I was shooting 20 or more rolls a week in my F2 I never left the shutter cocked overnight.

 

Rick H.

[Matthew Currie]

I second the idea of cycling the shutter many times.  Those old cameras can sometimes regain much of their accuracy.  If you go on line, I think you may still find somewhere the info for recalibrating the FTn meter for modern batteries.  It's not all that hard, requiring that you open it up, and adjust two little variable resistors.  One adjusts the exposure itself (comparing with a known good meter) and the other the battery check needle, and they slightly influence each other.  I did mine many years ago and they worked very well.

I found the old 1.4 lens all right on black and white, but it seemed a bit less satisfactory in color, and I much preferred the lagter 50/2 AI.  The older 50/2 was also supposed to be very good, and with less distortion.  I would not overlook the 55/3.5 either, though, which was a decent normal lens.

Don't forget too that if you can't manage the meter recalibration, you can probably compensate enough by fudging the ASA setting.  The main problem here is going to be keeping track of the battery condition since the battery check does not change with film speed, so it will be out of adjustment.  Alkaline batteries are not optimal but they will work.  Or, you can get conductive rings to put on smaller batteries and use those instead, which gives more of an opportunity for silver oxides.  Just remember that because this finder's battery contact is on the side of the cell, you can't just use O-rings as you can on some other cameras.  You need a conductive ring.  In a pinch you can use aluminum foil.

[ben_hutcherson]

When looking for a manual for the finder, note that this is the "Photomic FTN" finder. It was the last version of meter finder for the F. On the T and Tn finders, you have to set the lens maximum aperture manually on the ISO dial. The FTN has what's sometimes called "Semi-auto indexing"-after mounting a lens, rotate the aperture ring to minimum to "grab" the coupling pin, then rotate to minimum aperture. When you do the latter for the first time, you should hear a sort of ratching noise from the finder, and the little red pointer inside the window should indicate the minimum aperture of the lens mounted. BTW, mounting at f/5.6 will usually grab the metering pin automatically, but I just got in the habit of going minimum-maximum as you don't have to worry about where it is. Note too that when you remove the lens, it should come off the body set to f/5.6.

This meter is functionally identical to the F2 Photomic finder, although the latter is more refined(and doesn't care about battery voltage).

Note that sometimes the coupling pin gets "sticky". If you were to take the front of the finder off, you'd see that it slides in a groove and is spring loaded, and then rides along an arched rail that keeps it at the correct height for the aperture ring as it goes side to side. Sometimes it will get sticky and not want to move up and down, so you will lose it as you move more than one or two stops past f/5.6.

Unless you just have to have a plain prism, I'd suggest using it with the metering prism. Plain prisms are pricey, and aside from the bulk the metering prisms work just fine even if you don't use the meter.

Fs are great cameras and fundamentally were the start of the reputation Nikon has spent 60+ years continuing to build. The F2 builds on the F and is in nearly every imaginable way a better camera with things like a swinging film back, mirror lock up that doesn't require wasting a frame to raise and then another to lower it, and meters that integrate better into the body. You can also bolt a motor drive right on and off without needing to calibrate it to the body. The one advantage I can think of that the F has is that it has multiple flash sync modes should you wish to use bulbs, but that's a pretty niche use these days. Still, though, the F is still a very capable camera.

BTW, the 50mm f/1.4 is great and getting a 50mm f/1.4 SLR lens was quite an achievement at the time(Nikon's first attempt was 58mm, and this was true of a lot of other early fast SLR lenses). Still though, as a fast single coated 7 element lens(fun side note-Nikon lenses indicate their number of elements in the name. Nikkor-S means Septa, or 7) and is prone to flare and low contrast, especially wide open. The Nikkor-H(H=hexa, 6 elements) 50mm f/2 is in almost every way optically a better lens, although the f/1.4 is not bad when stopped down to f/2. The 55mm f/3.5 Micro is IMO the real prize here for sharpness-I still consider this one of the sharpest Micro-Nikkors ever made when used as an actual macro lens, and I've owned most of the F mount ones.

[Matthew Currie]

Couple of final notes.  Plain prism finders are hard to find, especially the later ones with round eyepieces.  If you need any eyepiece accessories such as dipoters or magnifiers, stick with the circular one on the Ftn finder.  It's the smaller of two thread sizes (bigger starting with the F3 HP). 

Depending on which version you have, the 55/3.5 may have a compensating aperture.  The first versions of this lens, made when most meters were external, compensated for the loss of light when focusing close.  It messes up TTL metering and must be compensated for.  Chances are if it is contemporary with the camera it will be a later uncompensated version but it would be a good idea to check.  Here's a list of what serial numbers fit what versions:  http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/lenses.html#55Micro.

I have a later pre-AI "PC" version and concur with Ben Hutcherson above.  Great lens. 

[orsetto]

Based on the serial number, your 55mm Micro Nikkor is the earlier compensating-aperture design cited above. Depending on your priorities, it is considered superior to the later (far more common) non-compensating versions. The original compensating version has an optical design optimized specifically for macro and closeup distances, when Nikon dropped the compensating aperture feature they also decided to make the 55mm more marketable by slightly degrading the closeup performance in favor of improved infinity performance. Both versions are excellent, but hard core macro enthusiasts seek out the earlier compensating-aperture version for that last nth degree of performance. 

Drawback of the compensating design is its incompatibility with TTL metering in open-aperture mode (using either the rabbit ears or AI if the lens was updated for AI). The lens was designed to couple with an external non-TTL accessory meter on the older Nikon F variants: since the meter was not TTL the lens mechanically compensates for the light loss at macro distances by opening the aperture wider as you focus closer. The actual aperture will deviate from the aperture ring setting by varying amounts depending on aperture set + distance. This was a great gimmick in the early '60s non-TTL era, today not so much. For accurate TTL metering you must set your modern camera to stop down meter mode, and meter the light thru the actual distance-compensated aperture the lens is setting. Of course none of this applies if the lens is used on a mirrorless digital body: these always employ stopped down TTL metering with adapted manual lenses.

[orsetto]

Unless you're a collector in search of a shelf display piece, be aware the era of the "user condition plain prism Nikon F" is effectively over.  Aside from the astronomical collector-driven and hipster-driven pricing, you have the prism rot issue to contend with. At this point, the overwhelming majority of plain unmetered Nikon F prisms (that haven't already been hoarded) are in poor optical condition. These things were never expected to see a service life approaching six decades: they were designed with some materials that could only endure 10-20 years. Sadly, one of these materials is the ubiquitous foam one often finds decayed to a tarry substance in camera door seal areas and reflex mirror bumpers.

This same material, a particularly nasty version of it, was used as cushioning between the prism glass and outer shell of Nikon F plain prisms. Over the years, as it decays to tar and shrinks, it pulls away from the prism glass (taking bits of the precious reflective silvering with it). This results in varying degrees of black or shadowy lines down the center of your view, and/or floating dark blobs hovering over the focus screen. Once detected, the problem will grow steadily worse and there is no cure (opening the prism will destroy whatevers left of the silvering, and no spare glass replacement prisms are available). 

Some users are not unduly bothered by this flaw, which is by no means limited to Nikon F (ask Olympus OM-1 and Leicaflex SL2 owners if you want another earful). Its subjective: some photographers can ignore the viewing interference, others cannot, and it depends on the exact severity/location of the damage. But it is very very hard nowadays to find a Nikon F plain prism with fully intact (or even minimally degraded) optics. If you do, be prepared to pay in the vicinity of $200 (US), and also be prepared to be shocked and disappointed when the thing starts rotting away a couple months or years after purchase: the decay is almost inevitable. See the view thru my two plain F prisms below: these were absolutely pristine when bought in 2020, but started slowly decaying almost immediately.

The final model Photomic FTN meter prisms for the F (the most common F prism by far,  which you have on your camera) is much much less afflicted by this issue. Nikon had more room in the meter housing to install somewhat better shielding between the foam and the actual glass prism. The Photomic FTN can still develop desilvering spots, but the progress is substantially slower, less intrusive, and often localized to the eyepiece area (which can be successfully repaired in many case). Since the Photomic FTN is so common and not nearly as collectible, if yours develops an issue it is easy and cheap to just buy another FTN prism. Esp if you don't care if the meter is dead, people practically give those away (silver versions, anyway: the black is harder to find).

The meter system in most Nikon F meter prisms is either erratic/dying or already dead. It isn't simply the old "carbon resistor issue": they're often worn to hell altogether, with dead/dying CdS "eyes". This can be repaired with beefed-up modern replacement parts, but the cost is high and the number of techs with the specialized parts/skills is small. Better to pretend the Photomic meter prism is just a jumbo-sized plain prism, and use it as such. The F meter prism battery compartment is a PITA to adapt to small cheap modern hearing aid batteries: you can test if it works using alkaline PX625 equivalents, but the readings will be off. If the meter seems to work reasonably well and isn't jerky, buy the pricey Wein cells (hearing aid batteries remounted into F-friendly shells).

See pics below for size comparison of my metered and unmetered Nikon F cameras. Note the round eyepiece on my plain prism F, as mentioned earlier by Matthew_Currie: if you're going to pursue a plain F prism, this is the version to get because it can accept the same common diopters, eyecups and angle finders as the F2, Nikkormats, and FM/FE/FA. Most of the Nikon F plain prisms in available circulation are the older rectangular eyepiece version: avoid these unless you are offered an incredible bargain on a super-clean example. Even then, be sure you'll never want to use an eyepiece accessory before you buy. Nikon did later offer a plastic adapter bracket to mount round accessories on the older prisms, but its rarer than rare: I've only seen two on eBay in the last five years.

Realistically, for the price of a clean plain F prism you can get a super nice example of metered F2 Photomic (non-AI) or the AI-updated F2A. Its a more ergonomic camera overall, with meter prism not much larger than a plain prism (that uses modern S76 batteries). Meter more likely to be in operating condition, or easier to get repaired if necessary. F2 prisms are much less prone to desilvering rot: I don't think I've ever seen an F2 prism with the issues common to F plain prisms.

Edited December 21, 2023 by orsetto

[Ricochetrider]

Wow thanks for the in depth posts here guys! I’ll be able to take time to read and absorb all this at some point and I’ll try to speak to stuff you have all brought up.

firimg the shutter extensively will undoubtedly do the camera much good. I’ve fired it a few times but the camera hasn’t been used in decades. 
 

Thanks again, really appreciate your time and knowledge. 
 

Tom

 

[JDMvW]

The EOS digital cameras made me a Canonista, but I still have a lot of Nikon film cameras.

This was always a favorite

[hjoseph7]

Believe it or not, we are now living in the Electronic-Digital age. The  mechanical age was wonderful, but hings have gotten much simpler now. I still admire some of the cameras from the mechanical age in that there is not much wrong that can go with them. Not only that, they were built much better than they are now.  That also means they were heavier and bulkier and not as precise, but we didn't complain much back then.

[orsetto]

😊 Another info dump for Ricochetrider:

There are some off the beaten path body alternatives you might contemplate as hosts for your Praktica M42 lenses. The most unique would be a peak-period Konica AutoReflex T3, gorgeous camera and super solid mechanically (unkillable Copal Square shutter). The Konicas were the "mirrorless" cameras of their day: shallow flange to film distance means they can focus M42 and Nikon lenses using simple adapters. You lose the AE feature and need to use stopped down manual metering, but thats the standard for most vintage M42 bodies anyway. Matching, AE-coupled Konica Hexar lenses other than 50mm have gotten scarce and expensive due to demand from video pros (like just about every other vintage lens line: aargh). But if you like Nifty Fifty, the Hexar f/1.4 and f/1.7 lenses are at least as good as SMC Takumars (the 1.4 on my camera is the best 1.4 I've ever owned).

If you can find one, the Fujica ST801 and ST901 were as future-shock as it got in screw mount hardware (silicon blue meter cells, 7 LED manual meter in the 801, red digital readout of AE shutter speed in the 901). The proprietary coupled for open-aperture-metering Fuji lenses are excellent but scarce/collectible today, fortunately 801/901 work fine in stop down mode with most non-Fuji lenses.

Now, back to your Nikon stuff:

While the Nikon F is a legendary foundational film camera model, and common examples are still affordable enough that every film enthusiast should own one just for nostalgia kicks, they aren't much fun when not working well and aren't usually worth the cost of repairs. Your FTn Photomic looks pretty clean, but if the faster shutter speeds are faulty it isn't worth the spendy repair cost to fix unless its a collectible early F body (it isn't) or you have sentimental attachment to the particular camera (owned it for years already, or inherited from close friend/family member). Ditto the 50mm f/1.4 Nikkor-S lens: if aperture or focus rings feel binding to the point of unusable, sell it off and buy a nicer example (along with the 50mm f/2, they're incredibly common and easy to find at cheap prices with a little patience and hunting skills).

I own several Nikon F cameras mostly because I got them very cheap back in the days when people would list camera bags full of dusty gear on eBay for $100, and be thrilled if they actually got that much. But long before acquiring my first Nikon F, I had settled on the Nikon F2AS as my favorite 35mm SLR. The F2 is much sleeker and easier to handle than the F, and has far more modern reliable meter heads available for it. As a user camera, esp if you prefer TTL metering, the F2 beats the F hands down. Today, the advantages of the F over the F2 are somewhat subtle: it has a MUCH nicer shutter firing sound, and it looks much better sporting a plain prism than the F2 does.

The F has a mechanically damped shutter, the F2 (rather surprisingly) employs a crap little internally-buried foam pad to quiet the mirror spring, which has rotted away to dust in 4 out of 5 surviving F2 cameras (hence the notorious cringe-y "PING!" most F2s emit when their mirror returns). The F was aesthetically designed around a plain prism and looks ungainly with a meter prism, the F2 was designed around the meter prism as default and looks odd with a plain prism. 

If you like the idea of owning a classic-era Nikon, there are other options you might find more appealing (as JDMvW posted above). Due to the legend status and cult following for anything that used to be a "pro" model, many today overlook the second-tier Nikons of the 70s, specifically the Nikkormat models. The exact reasons why are an interesting story in camera lore, but short version Nikon used the secondary "Nikkormat" name for almost 20 years because they wanted to distinctly separate their "pro" and "non-pro" cameras. The Nikkormats were actually very well made, almost to the level of the F/F2, and in some respects surpassed their "pro" brothers in features/reliability/convenience.

Nikkormats all have built-in-body metering, so their (fixed) prisms have the compact "vintage" look of the F plain prism. Hinged back like F2, vs the clumsy pull-off back of the F. The rewind crank handles are huge vs the F and early F2: much nicer to use. Depth of field preview and mirror lock are much better implemented. And the Copal Square shutter module is almost indestructible: I've had dozens of Nikkormats pass thru my hands, and only one had a minor shutter issue (mind, it also looked like it fell off a high roof onto concrete). The shutter/mirror action is almost as nice-sounding as the F (way nicer than F2 or FM/FE).

There are only three drawbacks of Nikkormat vs F/F2: no ability to change finders or screens or meters, no motor drive (who cares), and significantly less accurate viewfinder. The Nikon F series is known for its 100% viewfinder coverage of the actual film gate, vital for macro or copy work (esp in the era of slide film supremacy). Most other 35mm SLRs had roughly 92% coverage. The Nikkormats, unfortunately, are notorious for their measly 85% viewfinder coverage: a little annoying if you tend to compose out to the edges of the frame, but otherwise fine in practical use. In exchange for these limitations, you can often pick up a pristine fully functional Nikkormat (including a lens) for a C-note or less.

The sturdy basic design was retained from 1965-1977, with minor improvements over the years. The FS has no meter and is a collectible: forget it. The FT has a head scratching meter setup, not worth the trouble. Sweet spot is the Nikkormat FTn: Nikon sold tons of these. Only drawback is it uses the discontinued 635 battery, but the compartment is very easy to shim allowing use of dirt cheap common hearing aid batteries. The ensuing FT2 adds a hot shoe for flash (which alas ruins the pretty prism profile) and switches to the newer still-current S76 battery. Final, uncommon FT3 is an FT2 revised with the then-new AI meter coupling (nice if you only have AI and AF lenses, otherwise stick to earlier cheaper models).

An electronic offshoot was the Nikkormat EL/ELW/Nikon EL2: these were direct ancestor to the popular Nikon FE/FE2. They look more like a Nikon F2 than the mechanical Nikkormats, which closely copy the Nikon F body (see my pics below). The electronic EL variants require a 6v battery to power the shutter and AE/manual metering (modern garage door opener battery). Because of the antiquated electronics, you run a greater risk of defects, OTOH many ELs still work just fine and while cheap to buy today they were premium, very expensive models when new (slotting just below the F2).

Edited December 23, 2023 by orsetto

[Niels - NHSN]

12 hours ago, orsetto said:

Due to the legend status and cult following for anything that used to be a "pro" model, many today overlook the second-tier Nikons of the 70s, specifically the Nikkormat models.

I think people of the 80's and forward mistakenly applied the "entry level" label to the Nikkormats. Entry-level in the 80's and onward meant inferior build quality among other things. 

The Nikkormat cameras were never as inexpensive and accessible as say a Canon AE-1 or the later Nikon EM/FG etc. If you handle a Nikkormat EL next to a Canon AE-1 you'll know why.

Somewhere I have the 1974 Nikon price list. That year's pricelist was a little interesting as it was the last year where the Nikon F was listed alongside the F2, it also had listings for the Nikkormat FTn and the Nikkormat EL.

I don't have it in front of me so I can't quote exact prices, but from memory I recall that I surprisingly noted the Nikkormat FTn cost about the same as a Nikon F with meterless prism.
The Nikkormat EL was more expensive than a Nikon F w. a Photomic FTn head, and the Nikkormat EL was about the same price as an F2 with meterless prism.

The Nikkormats were widely professionally used, maybe not surprisingly as backups to F/F2 by some press photographers but also, as I observed myself in the late 70's when accompanying my parents at work; widely used by museums documenting collections, exhibitions and research findings, by archaeologists in the field, by architects at construction sites etc.

Whenever a camera (or any tool) is used professionally, especially in situations where the user is not the owner, or where several people use the same camera, it is rarely babied - to say the least. The Nikkormat's were build to withstand that sort of abuse.

 

Edited December 23, 2023 by Niels - NHSN

[robert_bouknight1]

We had Nikkormats and F2 at the college I took photos for in the late 70's.  Actually it seemed that the Nikkormats were more reliable but it could be that the F2's were grabbed first and saw a lot more action including extensive use with motor drives.

One problem with the earlier Nikkormats was that one needed to be very careful to thread film fully onto the take up reel. I know I had to shoot a group again after I developed a blank roll.

I like cameras that have a removable cold shoe, or no shoe over the eyepiece.  A time or two something has caused a flash shoe on top of a prism to hit my upper eye socket.  These days I keep a little rubber level in the shoe socket to smooth out the top of a cameras.

[robert_bowring]

I agree that the Nikkormats are very nice cameras but for some reason are underrated. If someone is looking for a good film camera they are the best bargain around. They are built as well as their Nikon stablemates but at a fraction of the cost. I have FT, Ftn and EL models and they have never let me down. I actually prefer them over my Nikon F and F2.