Mamiya 6 — How Robust?

[stephen_mcateer]

I have owned a couple of these cameras over the years but never really got along with them for whatever reason.

However, I'm thinking about trying again, mainly because the lenses are outstanding as I recall; also they're good for low light without a tripod.

The only question I have is: how robust are these cameras?

I've read elsewhere that they can be a bit fragile and some parts are no longer available.

Thanks for any info.

[robert_bowring]

I bought my Mamiya 6 in 1992 and have never had a problem with it. It is a very nice camera with excellent lenses. 

[stephen_mcateer]

@robert_bowring Thanks Robert. I don't think I gave the two cameras I owned enough time to get used to them — I only put maybe three or four rolls though each. The pictures I did take came out well though.

6x6 is my favourite format and I think the only other recent 6x6 rangefinder is the Fuji one that also does 6x7. (I've read that rangefinder accuracy can be a problem with those cameras though.)

I think I'll sell off some of my excess camera gear first, then look for another 6.

Cheers.

Edited December 10, 2023 by stephen_mcateer

[orsetto]

The griping on gear forums re Mamiya 6/7 build foibles (esp while they were still sold new) got amplified by their inflated pricing paradox. It obscured the reality that all medium format systems have "gotchas", even mechanical legends. The Seiko shutters in many Mamiya TLR lenses is about as reliable as a weather prediction, the (inevitable) service costs to overhaul a Hasselblad or Rolleiflex can leave your jaw permanently on the floor.  Every vice has a price.

Like most any "vintage" electronic medium format film camera system: Mamiya 6/7 are a crapshoot after twenty+ years. Some have owned a Mamiya 6 kit since the day of release, dropped them on concrete multiple times, slammed then in the door of a pickup truck, shot them in a rainstorm at the beach, and thirty years later swear they never had a moments trouble from them. Others have not been so lucky, especially second-third-fourth owners. Do a casual search thru the usual camera user groups/forums, and you'll find common refrains of funky rangefinder performance and/or the film advance self-destructing two rolls after the package arrives from eBay.

The scarcity of proprietary repair parts means you need to be extra-careful when shopping a second-hand Mamiya 6 kit. The film advance is the Achilles Heel: at minimum you want assurances from the seller this has been tested good pre-sale (and you'll have 30 days trial period to do your own tests). There are a handful of Mamiya 6/7 repair specialists, i.e. Precision Camera Works in Chicago, who stock leftover original or custom-made film transport parts. But you could be in for a long repair wait depending on customer queue and parts availability. Better to lay hands on the best condition example you can get to begin with, and treat it gingerly (esp the film advance). 

The lenses are phenomenally good, but acquiring a full set of all three with reasonably similar RF calibration to a given body can be difficult. It was assumed any interested photographers would purchase new from a full-service Mamiya dealer (who would allow evaluation of several lens examples for a perfect match to a given body). Today, you're on your own at the mercy of the used market. It is certainly possible to memorize any mild focus variations of the 50mm or 75mm against a given body, and make a habit of on-the-fly compensation. The superb 150mm can be very challenging even in the best of circumstances at anything less than infinity: those with an interest in portraiture may want to dedicate a custom-calibrated body to their 150mm.

The nifty Mamiya 6/7 were uniquely burdened by the disconnect between their original design brief and eventual global marketing strategy. Mamiya's original intent was to siphon off some buyers of the popular Fuji "Texas Leica" series of fixed-lens medium format rangefinders, via more contemporary AE metering and interchangeable lenses at Fuji-competitive pricing.

That last point ended up a confused mess by the time the 6/7 actually debuted: they were engineered with compromises to achieve a certain price point, which Mamiya then arbitrarily inflated in most markets outside the Japanese domestic arena. "Good enough" body construction was acceptable at Fuji "Texas Leica" pricing: at Mamiya's 11th-hour "Wetzlar Leica" price point owners got more than a little offended by build quality glitches. The gouging left a bitter taste that (fairly and unfairly) still haunts the Mamiya 6/7. 

Edited December 10, 2023 by orsetto

[stephen_mcateer]

@orsetto Thanks very much for that detailed reply. Just the information I was looking for. (Thanks for the history of the development and marketing of the 6 & 7 too.)

I think, on balance, and after reading your comments about the fragility of the film advance and the rangefinder / lens matching problems, I am going to leave it for now. 

As I said, I have owned a couple of these cameras in the past, and while I got some reasonable pictures with them, I never really took to them the same way as I did my Rollei and Hasselblad.

Cheers.

[arthur_gottschalk]

I have both the 6&7, both bought new and used extensively without a problem. If you do buy another 6 and it works well, go easy on the advance lever. 

[stephen_mcateer]

@arthur_gottschalk Thanks Arthur. I've put this idea on the back burner for now but I may return to it. I wasn't aware of the advance problem till I made the original post here — something to look out for if I change my mind.

[orsetto]

Hope my post above did not dissuade you from pursuing a Mamiya 6 kit if you feel the itch to get back into MF RF: only meant to answer your curiosity about  "why the conflicting reliability rep". I should have been more clear that the Mamiya 6/7 RF systems aren't statistically more or less reliable than any other 90s-era MF gear. But they can seem more trouble prone due to the number of owner reports mentioning the same couple of issues (rangefinder calibration, film transport). This can be misinterpreted as more widespread and frequent than it is in practice, because the griping centers around just two camera models that were mfd mostly unchanged for 15 years.

Yes, to a certain extent the camera bodies tend toward a couple of common failure points. But in the larger scheme, ALL medium format film systems have vulnerabilities and failure points. One could argue the Mamiya 6/7 are actually less problematic than others, since they only have those two issues of any significance vs other systems with multiple failure modes. If necessary, the Mamiya 6/7 foibles can be repaired, and once fixed are unlikely to re-occur unless the cameras are handled roughly. 

The Mamiya 6/7 have held their value for a reason, and it isn't collectability: they are highly prized for their unique combination of frame size, portability, usability, and optical quality. The reliability quirks are taken in stride by their owners, who just have them repaired (if necessary) and get on with shooting. The warnings and caveats found in forum discussions should be interpreted as a heads up to potential buyers re specific issues may arise that need to be addressed. You'll find similar warnings and caveats (endlessly) about vintage Hasselblad failure points, but that doesn't slow down interest in Hasselblad in the slightest: they're always in demand and prices keep trending up. 

The Mamiya 6 RF calibration isn't an issue for most buyers unless the camera was grossly abused. Most bodies are reasonably close in calibration to most examples of the 50mm and 75mm lenses. If a little off, you can learn to compensate pretty quickly.  The 150mm lens is fantastic, but harder to focus accurately (and the tiny viewfinder frame is a poor thing to compose thru). But its still an improvement over my older Mamiya Press handling of 150mm (with its funky smaller circular rangefinder patch).

Deciding whether you would really enjoy using a medium format rangefinder vs a reflex system is the overriding issue. Some love the Mamiya 6 so much they ditch their SLR or TLR altogether. Others find the rangefinder viewing/focusing experience too different. Of course if you can afford to keep multiple systems, you can switch between them as seems appropriate. I prefer the reflex viewing of my Hasselblad amd my Mamiya C220F TLR by nature, but also use a Mamiya Press Universal rangefinder system occasionally. The Press has the weight, size and ergonomics of a sack of potatoes, but is a fun change when I want to shake things up. The Mamiya 6 is far sleeker but a far more substantial investment than the Press: I couldn't justify it for occasional use, but if I preferred rangefinder to reflex handling I would not hesitate to jump on the 6 as my daily driver.

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by orsetto

[stephen_mcateer]

@orsetto Thanks for that. I'll keep what you say in mind if I decide to get a 6 at some point down the road.

I like rangefinders and I prefer the 6x6 aspect ratio. Just a shame they're so expensive, though I suppose they're only going to go up in price.

I did like the pictures I got from the 6s I owned before, though I found the metering to be off — I've read that the 6 uses an average metering pattern, whereas the 7 is spot.

The ones I had before both came with a 75mm lens. It was very sharp / had good contrast but I think next time I would maybe go for a 50mm.

Anyway, thanks again for the insights.

Cheers.

Edited December 12, 2023 by stephen_mcateer

[Moto-Uno]

Loved my Mamiya 7 , and had the good luck to have the 50, 80,and 150 lenses . Had it for over 5 years , it went on

numerous motorcycle trips with me and never failed to perform flawlessly . Most of the time shooting Provia 100F

with the intents of getting a projector . I should've checked the price on that at the beginning . Not too long afterwards

it was put up for sale on one of the camera forums and before the night was over had 10 bids above the asking price

from all around the earth ! They do take fantastic pics ! Used the proceeds to buy a Tig welding outfit I'd lusted after

for years .. Peter

[stephen_mcateer]

@Moto-Uno

Thanks Peter. 

The Mamiya 7 is even more expensive than the 6 — I see examples of the 7ii from Japan for £4000+.

I think the 6x7 format appeals to more people than 6x6, which maybe explains the price difference. 

I may get another 6 if I have the spare cash and one appears on eBay at the right price.

[arthur_gottschalk]

I've just been printing some pictures made with my M7II several years ago. Amazingly sharp, all handheld. 

[orsetto]

The Mamiya 7 is much much more sought after than the Mamiya 6. Factors behind this trend:  the uncropped 6x7 rectangular format is so much larger within a similar camera size (vs the ergonomic but film-wasting horizontal implementation of 645 in the 6MF),  the 7 has a more extensive lens lineup, and the larger 7 format (vs the 6 when used for rectangular) exploits those lenses to greater impact. 

Arguably the most significant advantage of the Mamiya 7 over the Mamiya 6 is availability of the incredibly good 43mm super wide angle for the 7. That lens is considered perhaps the worlds best-performing medium format wide angle, at least when the context is common "modern" cameras. Its optical formula is similar to the superb 75mm Biogon beloved by 4x5 view camera enthusiasts, but with newer coatings and repackaged for the far more portable 6x7 rangefinder format. It gives the venerable 38mm Biogon of Hasselblads's dedicated SWC camera a run for its money: larger 6x7 format, rangefinder focusing accuracy, and superior add-on viewfinder. Short of using a view camera, the Mamiya 7 + 43mm or the Hasselblad SWC are the only ultra high quality medium format super wide options for film shooters. (There was also an excellent late-model 50mm super wide lens for the 6x9 format Mamiya Press rangefinder cameras, but those are enormous heavy laborious antiquated beasts in a different class from the Mamiya 6/7 or Hassy SWC).

The Mamiya 6 has its own advantages, of course. Some vastly prefer 6x6 square compositions, tho this is uncommon in the modern post-1970s era when the most popular 120/220 rangefinder formats were/are rectangular (6x6 square enthusiasts typically prefer reflex cameras to rangefinders). Averaging meter pattern is arguably more logical/usable in an AE-centric camera than the spot meter in the Mamiya 7 (tho neither is particularly foolproof at exposure readings: metering was always an afterthought at Mamiya). The controversial collapsible lens mount feature is considered a huge advantage by some Mamiya 6 users, tho the majority don't seem to care much about it. Finally there is the "Mamiya 6 MF" variant with its ability to shoot panoramas on 35mm film. This feature has a surprisingly strong cult following: if you want it, you need the 6MF. The MF also has the somewhat odd and wasteful horizontal 645 film masking option for 120/220, but the multi-format options penalize you with a rather cluttered viewfinder. If you exclusively shoot 6x6, the non-MF version of Mamiya 6 is more pleasant, and if you prefer rectangular medium format the peculiar 645 implementation of the 6MF is vastly inferior to the straightforward 6x7 of Mamiya 7.

Edited December 21, 2023 by orsetto