D850 .. AF-Fine tune values not saved in saved settings. Now what?

[kevin_beretta]

I have (had) about 13 lenses with AF-Fine tune settings in my D850. I wanted to reset the camera to chase a bug and saved the values (Save/load settings) yesterday. Reset the camera, took the battery out and let it sit for 24H. Didn't fix the issue so I reloaded the settings. All the settings came back, except the AF-Fine tune values. Am I totally skunked? Am I missing something else? A day's work if I can't recover it somehow ... sigh. Any ideas appreciated.

[robert_bouknight1]

That is a tough one.  I bought a very high mileage D850 (almost 500K shots) cheap that I don't use much, but it has been reliable.  I had planned to get Nikon to replace the shutter at some point, maybe.

 Are the AF fine tune values supposed to be backed up with a settings save?  I would not have expected this since the values would be different from camera to camera.

It seems that my D850 needs less af fine tune than the older D3 series AF module.  But maybe it is a good idea to make a quick spread sheet of AF fine tune values for cameras to head off the need to set it all up again.  Having read this, I plan to make a spread sheet up for my active cameras.

Edited December 4, 2023 by robert_bouknight1

[kevin_beretta]

I guess I should have looked it up. It doesn't. FMR ... A day's work ahead. Definitely will make a spreadsheet for the D850 and the Df now...
https://onlinemanual.nikonimglib.com/d850/en/18_menu_guide_06_33.html

[robert_bouknight1]

Well, at least you can do it at home.   I found out the hard way that the custom dyno generated tune in my (getting older) race car was battery backed up, with a soldered in battery!  Car went brain dead this spring.  Had I known about the battery in the black box, I sure would have taken preventive measures.  Had to go to an entirely different setup since the original setup was NLA, and I think I lost some power doing so.  And I missed a number of events figuring all of this out, not to mention $$$$ due to a $1 battery.

[kevin_beretta]

5 minutes ago, robert_bouknight1 said:

Well, at least you can do it at home.   I found out the hard way that the custom dyno generated tune in my (getting older) race car was battery backed up, with a soldered in battery!  Car went brain dead this spring.  Had I known about the battery in the black box, I sure would have taken preventive measures.  Had to go to an entirely different setup since the original setup was NLA, and I think I lost some power doing so.  And I missed a number of events figuring all of this out, not to mention $$$$ due to a $1 battery.

Oof.. having helped a friend dial in an FI conversion on an old BMW 2002, I feel your pain. That took all summer to work properly... My problems are none-existent in comparison. But after today .... Excel sheet.

[mike_halliwell]

13 hours ago, kevin_beretta said:

13 lenses with AF-Fine tune

What's the AF/AF-D/AF-I/AF-S split like?

I usually managed OK on the newer lenses with Auto AF fine tune where the body compares LV focus with conventional AF.

Some of the earlier (old!) AF lenses seems pretty random, particularly badly effected were the one 'spot' correction with slow zooms.

[kevin_beretta]

44 minutes ago, mike_halliwell said:

What's the AF/AF-D/AF-I/AF-S split like?

I usually managed OK on the newer lenses with Auto AF fine tune where the body compares LV focus with conventional AF.

Some of the earlier (old!) AF lenses seems pretty random, particularly badly effected were the one 'spot' correction with slow zooms.

I have 4 or so manual ais lenses too. Those take the longest but I figured out a way to use the green dot for fine tune for those as well. The auto fine tune never worked well for me. I do it with a 75 inch OLED TV and shoot tethered to a step wedge, compare, adjust, compare... It works well.

[ilkka_nissila]

15 hours ago, kevin_beretta said:

I have (had) about 13 lenses with AF-Fine tune settings in my D850. I wanted to reset the camera to chase a bug and saved the values (Save/load settings) yesterday. Reset the camera, took the battery out and let it sit for 24H. Didn't fix the issue so I reloaded the settings. All the settings came back, except the AF-Fine tune values. Am I totally skunked? Am I missing something else? A day's work if I can't recover it somehow ... sigh. Any ideas appreciated.

I copy the fine tune settings of all my cameras manually into a spreadsheet which I keep backed up. I don't think the fine tune values are stored or recalled as saved settings. How did the values disappear?

 

What is the bug that you're chasing?

[kevin_beretta]

9 hours ago, ilkka_nissila said:

I copy the fine tune settings of all my cameras manually into a spreadsheet which I keep backed up. I don't think the fine tune values are stored or recalled as saved settings. How did the values disappear?

 

What is the bug that you're chasing?

The values disappeared when I reset the camera via the menu (after first backing up through the same menu). Sadly, most if not all of the settings were restored, the AF fine-tune values are not part of that. It does restore the list of non-CPU lenses, oddly enough, so you'd expect it to do the AF values as well. It even says in the manual it doesn't back these up 🙂 RTFM I guess before doing stuff like this. I was trying to chase (although with little hope of success) the fact that some of the horizontal pieces of the lettering inside the viewfinder don't light up anymore. Not very many reports on this on the web and one guy in Germany sent his D850 to get it fixed for 160 Euro. It doesn't impact the workings of the camera. I guess a pressed-in LED board has come a bit loose. I was hoping it be power/battery related but no.

Edited December 5, 2023 by kevin_beretta

[ilkka_nissila]

25 minutes ago, kevin_beretta said:

The values disappeared when I reset the camera via the menu (after first backing up through the same menu). Sadly, most if not all of the settings were restored, the AF fine-tune values are not part of that. It does restore the list of non-CPU lenses, oddly enough, so you'd expect it to do the AF values as well. It even says in the manual it doesn't back these up 🙂 RTFM I guess before doing stuff like this. I was trying to chase (although with little hope of success) the fact that some of the horizontal pieces of the lettering inside the viewfinder don't light up anymore. Not very many reports on this on the web and one guy in Germany sent his D850 to get it fixed for 160 Euro. It doesn't impact the workings of the camera. I guess a pressed-in LED board has come a bit loose. I was hoping it be power/battery related but no.

I hope you get it fixed and that it doesn't cost too much.

 

I was just shooting some landscape with the D850.

[kevin_beretta]

45 minutes ago, ilkka_nissila said:

I hope you get it fixed and that it doesn't cost too much.

 

I was just shooting some landscape with the D850.

Weirdly enough, as I am in the process right now of fine tuning the lenses, one side of the display is 100% ok again.

[kevin_beretta]

Well, after a day and a half of fine-tuning lenses, I dare say things are back to normal. This is a shot with the 300 VRII and the D850. Only needed -3 to get this good at f/2.8 @ 100ISO and 1/500s. Perspective shot through the window with the phone.

[Sandy Vongries]

You can save settings on a card that you store separately.

[kevin_beretta]

4 hours ago, Sandy Vongries said:

You can save settings on a card that you store separately.

Sandy, unless there is a process I'm unaware of, the "save settings" process does not include the AF Fine-tune settings, sadly.

[Sandy Vongries]

8 hours ago, kevin_beretta said:

Sandy, unless there is a process I'm unaware of, the "save settings" process does not include the AF Fine-tune settings, sadly.

Have many Nikons and lengthy instruction books, you are probably correct.  I only made the error of resetting a camera and losing my settings once some years back.  Surprisingly, when I sent a camera to Nikon for repair it was returned with settings intact.

[CvhKaar]

On 12/5/2023 at 10:50 AM, ilkka_nissila said:

I copy the fine tune settings of all my cameras manually into a spreadsheet which I keep backed up.

If i am not wrong, you can also save a shot taken by each of your lenses for which you have fie-tuned, as the actual AF fine-tune values for each lens are recorded in the EXIF data of photographs taken with that particular lens ...

Edited December 6, 2023 by CvhKaar

[kevin_beretta]

1 hour ago, CvhKaar said:

If i am not wrong, you can also save a shot taken by each of your lenses for which you have fie-tuned, as the actual AF fine-tune values for each lens are recorded in the EXIF data of photographs taken with that particular lens ...

Hi @CvhKaar you are correct. It seemed a bit odd that this data would not be part of the EXIF. I tried ExifPro and Irfanview but neither had the info. I installed Nikon's software NX Studio and it did show it there! Could have saved me a lot of time 🙂 Cheers, Kevin

[bgelfand]

4 hours ago, kevin_beretta said:

It seemed a bit odd that this data would not be part of the EXIF. I tried ExifPro and Irfanview but neither had the info. I installed Nikon's software NX Studio and it did show it there! Could have saved me a lot of time 🙂 Cheers, Kevin

Since you have the old data in EXIF, how do the new tuning settings compare to the old settings? If they are not the same, which do you like better?

[kevin_beretta]

Just now, bgelfand said:

Since you have the old data in EXIF, how do the new tuning settings compare to the old settings? If they are not the same, which do you like better?

Well I have only checked a few setting comparisons but have not had the chance to do a thorough side by side. In all of this, I did set up a few lenses with the D850 built-in AF fine-tune and that seems quite off from what I had from memory, both in numbers and looking at the output. Since I have a few f/1.4 manual lenses, my AF fine-tune process incorporates those as well (you can use the AF settings to ensure the lens is sharp right at the edge of the green dot) so it's been a fair bit of work. But no pre and post comparisons also because the subjects are obviously not the same.

[ilkka_nissila]

12 hours ago, kevin_beretta said:

Well I have only checked a few setting comparisons but have not had the chance to do a thorough side by side. In all of this, I did set up a few lenses with the D850 built-in AF fine-tune and that seems quite off from what I had from memory, both in numbers and looking at the output. Since I have a few f/1.4 manual lenses, my AF fine-tune process incorporates those as well (you can use the AF settings to ensure the lens is sharp right at the edge of the green dot) so it's been a fair bit of work. But no pre and post comparisons also because the subjects are obviously not the same.

The D850's auto AF fine tune needs to be repeated a few times and an average taken as the final value. The variability of results is otherwise too high IMO. Furhermore, it is a good idea to test the value in practical applications to confirm that it works as it should. For some lenses I've had to deviate a few points from the result of the formal process to get good results in practical use.

 

The D6 has a more reproducible auto fine tune where basically in most cases it gives the same result each time or is perhaps varying from instance to instance by 1 point. But there are some lenses with which the process can still benefit from repeating, but it's much better than in previous cameras. Unfortunately the D6's AF system didn't make it to an updated D8x0 series camera.

[kevin_beretta]

On 12/7/2023 at 3:08 AM, ilkka_nissila said:

The D850's auto AF fine tune needs to be repeated a few times and an average taken as the final value. The variability of results is otherwise too high IMO. Furhermore, it is a good idea to test the value in practical applications to confirm that it works as it should. For some lenses I've had to deviate a few points from the result of the formal process to get good results in practical use.

 

The D6 has a more reproducible auto fine tune where basically in most cases it gives the same result each time or is perhaps varying from instance to instance by 1 point. But there are some lenses with which the process can still benefit from repeating, but it's much better than in previous cameras. Unfortunately the D6's AF system didn't make it to an updated D8x0 series camera.

I tried this a few times now and it still does not give me the same result as doing it manually, which is to say, I shoot a step wedge on a tripod and immediately review the result on a 65 inch 4K TV, adjust the AF Fine Tune manually by changing the + or - values and try again. Still get better results that way. But it does take a lot longer... I tether shoot through Capture One, which is my editing software.

[Matthew Currie]

Just for informtion, Exiftool (also the more windows-friendly Exiftool GUI)  also returns fine tune information.

[kevin_beretta]

3 hours ago, Matthew Currie said:

Just for informtion, Exiftool (also the more windows-friendly Exiftool GUI)  also returns fine tune information.

Fantastic! Thanks for this 👍

[kevin_beretta]

Phew ... I had no idea how much data was resident in a NEF file. Just digging through all the data and interesting to see EXIF Tool also captures the regular camera menu settings as well as things like this:

Some reading is going to be needed but I guess it captures all of the XYZ positions of the camera as I can deduct on first blush.

And finally a program that surfaces all the GPS data I capture on the DI-GPS!!