Nikon Introduces the Retro, FX Mirrorless Zf

[ben_hutcherson]

2 minutes ago, mike_halliwell said:

I'd seriously consider the 24-120mm f4: those extra 50mm are quite handy. 

Only downside is no VR, but the Zf's IBIS is the best yet.

 

That's definitely one I will look at if I go this route.

There again, that's essentially an exact match for the 16-80 f/4 I have for the X-T5.

I have the F mount 24-120 but it's...less than thrilling. It does fine on my Df as well as my other lower resolution bodies(D3s, D4, D5) but definitely starts holding back the D800/D810 much less the D850. It's also a big and heavy enough that I'd rather just grab the 24-70 f/2.8 and call it a day. Yes I lose some range, but on the higher resolution bodies the much better 24-70 lets me crop to the equivalent of 120 and not lose much, if any, detail plus the potential noise advantage if I'm using the f/2.8 lens wide open.

The Z system seems to offer really good f/4 zooms, something that I feel is lacking in the F mount. I know the F mount 70-200 f/4 seems really well regarded, but I almost never hear it discussed. The 16-35 is popular and well regarded too, but the mid-range is lacking.

[Sandy Vongries]

FTZ II arrived from Nikon today, now counting down on the camera body.  Since I'm going to be using the old lenses, was concerned about possibly getting the camera and no adapter.  Probably the best packed piece of photo gear I have received in memory. Kudos to Nikon.

[ilkka_nissila]

I got the Zf today, along with the Smallrig grip and ML-L7 remote. I thought the threaded shutter button would work with a mechanical cable release but this is not the case. It's cosmetic. Reportedly there is an add-on soft shutter release that does fit into the threaded hole, but the existence of the thread misled me to assume a cable release would work. It does screw onto the shutter button but there is no shutter release via pressing the remote. So bluetooth it is. I tried Snapbridge on my iPhone SE 2020, and got it to connect with 10 min of efforts, and tried "remote photography". It displayed the live view and focus area on screen, but when I tried to release the shutter, it would disconnect from wifi, and nothing would happen. I tried reconnecting and then it would fire shots by pressing the button on the touchscreen. The ML-L7 does work as expected, although not quite as short a delay as when using an electrical cable release with cameras that do support it.

 

For synchronized triggering of remote cameras, the Zf does support some kind of network protocol which I haven't tried yet. One could then request the remote to fire when the main camera fires.

 

The camera does feel very nice in the hand, is quite heavy, and the mechanical controls are much nicer than previous Nikon retro implementations that I've tried. This part is really nicely done. The Smallrig grip is also nice and fits perfectly, and allows access to the battery and memory card compartments. The add-on grip is more substantial than the F3-style small grip in the camera itself. However, I find the Smallrig grip makes it harder to access the sub-command dial to set aperture. It requires some finger acrobatics. I am not sure if I will be using the grip because of this issue.

 

The camera has fewer of the normal Nikon modern camera control buttons than (say) a Z6 II or Z8, but the configurability is very good. I have been able to set everything to my liking. The record button is AF area and AF mode selector, and the front function button activates My Menu. I set the first item of My Menu to turn on and off Auto ISO, as this cannot be done from the dials, or at least I haven't figured out how it might be done. The AF works nicely, so far I haven't found anything to complain about it in that area, and in some ways it is more advanced than the Z8. There are more wide area width / height options available in the Zf than the Z8 or D6.

 

There is no bird AF mode, contrary to what some claimed. There is animal, people, animal/people, vehicle and airplane among the list of subject modes.

 

The VR in camera feels really nice, it's like it's a more refined version of what existed in previous Z cameras.

 

I will next try to use the Zf for taking pictures. 🙂 So that you won't be bored with my nit-picking complaints about what are probably minor issues to most people.

 

I have to repeat the following. The dials feel REALLY nice. One may say that what's the point of an ISO dial when all we use auto ISO. What's the point of shutter speed dial in full stops? These are legitimate questions, but that's not the point. The dials feel and sound great! I know a lot of people will roll their eyes and think how silly that is. But to me photography has to feel good to be fun. And the Zf in my opinion ticks a lot of boxes in that department.

 

If you have any questions about the Zf let me know and I'll try to answer by trying it out.

 

[mike_halliwell]

Let me know how well Pixel Shift works..... 🙂

Apparently you do need the latest version of NX Studio (1.5 new version this AM) to assemble them.

IBIS is supposed to be the best yet.

[ilkka_nissila]

3 minutes ago, mike_halliwell said:

Let me know how well Pixel Shift works..... 🙂

Apparently you do need the latest version of NX Studio (1.5 new version this AM) to assemble them.

IBIS is supposed to be the best yet.

I will try pixel shift when there is a suitable subject. Tomorrow it's going to rain unfortunately. Perhaps a studio product shot?

[ilkka_nissila]

The Zf allows subject detection and eye focus confirmation even with manual focus lenses, and manual focus mode with autofocus lenses. One can select the area mode from auto area, wide area small and wide area large, and within that area, it'll search for the current subject type. These can be selected from the photo shooting menu.

 

It's very demanding to use on the eye especially in close-ups I tried it with a manual focus 50/1.4 lens and I could only get the indicator to change color when I was shooting a 1/2 body portrait and when taking a close-up of the face the depth of field was so shallow it was not easy. But this mirrors the challenges in using manual focus lenses wide open. I quite like the help provided as the focus peaking may be good for larger subjects but it is not precise enough (IMO) for the eye. Not to the level that we're used to with modern AF systems anyway.

 

So a new life for manual focus lenses! And the camera allows one to sort of choose which aspects of the old style one wants to use, and take others from the modern methods if desired, selecting feature by feature. It's at first a bit confusing (because one can't for example set auto ISO from the ISO dial, it is a separate setting) but I'm really beginning to like the camera's flexibility.

[robert_bouknight1]

Ilkka, thank you for the insights.  I do like a nice feeling camera and still have Nikon F/F36, F2s, and various German camera bodies.

The "emotional" side of me wants a Zf, but I am not sure that the engineer side of me will buy in.  I am now too used to the 2 wheel approach, even though I held out with manual focus film cameras until digital was well established.

[Sandy Vongries]

Purportedly arriving Tuesday, looking forward to hands on.

[Rob Davies]

3 hours ago, robert_bouknight1 said:

Ilkka, thank you for the insights.  I do like a nice feeling camera and still have Nikon F/F36, F2s, and various German camera bodies.

The "emotional" side of me wants a Zf, but I am not sure that the engineer side of me will buy in.  I am now too used to the 2 wheel approach, even though I held out with manual focus film cameras until digital was well established.

I've spent 25 years adjusting to the control wheels, not sure I really want to have to adjust back now. 😀

[raczoliver]

Does anyone know whether on the Zf one can use the shutter speed dial to set a shutter speed, then use the command dial to override it within +-2/3 stops? I think the Df had that option. I have been trying to find this info in the reference guide to no luck. 

[ilkka_nissila]

8 hours ago, raczoliver said:

Does anyone know whether on the Zf one can use the shutter speed dial to set a shutter speed, then use the command dial to override it within +-2/3 stops? I think the Df had that option. I have been trying to find this info in the reference guide to no luck. 

I don't think this feature exists in the Zf.

[mike_halliwell]

On 10/14/2023 at 4:49 PM, Rob Davies said:

control wheels

Before the Df came out there as speculation it had 3 control wheels, aperture, shutter and ISO..... which oddly IS what the Zf has with dials, kinda!

[mike_halliwell]

Just updated NX Studio, and can see the top menu for Pixel Shift 'assembly'.

Anyone tried it to see what a 96MPix image looks like compared to a normal, full res Z7/Z8 or Z9 image?

Does the Zf have a low-pass filter?

[ilkka_nissila]

11 minutes ago, mike_halliwell said:

Does the Zf have a low-pass filter?

Jim Kasson thinks  the 24 MP FX sensor that Nikon used in the Z6 has optical low-pass filter on one direction only (normally there are two orthogonal layers). However, I haven't looked into this in detail. I suspect the Zf sensor is similar to the one in the Z6.

 

https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/mp-dont-matter-for-printing-or-do-they/

Edited October 20, 2023 by ilkka_nissila

[ShunCheung]

The Zf is supposed to have the exact same sensor as the Z6 and Z6ii, but whether there are some difference in the fine details, we need to check with Nikon.

[mike_halliwell]

Anyone know anything about the NEFX files that NX Studio makes from Zf merged files?

[ben_hutcherson]

On 10/20/2023 at 6:09 AM, ilkka_nissila said:

On 10/20/2023 at 5:58 AM, mike_halliwell said:

 

Jim Kasson thinks  the 24 MP FX sensor that Nikon used in the Z6 has optical low-pass filter on one direction only (normally there are two orthogonal layers). However, I haven't looked into this in detail. I suspect the Zf sensor is similar to the one in the Z6

I'm fuzzy on details, but isn't this how the D800(not D800E) was done?

I remember there was something sort of unusual about it, but I also seem to remember that it made the 800E even a bit weirder since it had sort of an anti-anti-alias filter(if that's making sense-and I admit to sort of glossing over when I read about it) that canceled out the effect of the already weak AA filter on the regular D800. It didn't go away completely until the D810, which practically speaking I've found no more prone to aliasing than the D800(I still have an use both).

The only relatively low resolution full frame camera(by modern standards) camera I'm aware of is the 14mp Kodak DCS 14/n and SLR/n. I've not pushed those that far, especially since they're more curiosities to me in 2023 than practical cameras(especially since I can stuff my pockets full of batteries and still be lucky to get 50 photos in an outing...even though on the right subject they sing like nothing else) but they will alias even on things like relatively course weave fabrics. I've been known to use inexpensive bed sheets as studio backdrops and depending on distance I've had a mess before with the Kodak cameras.

Thinking back on my DSLR/digital ownership history, I think I've only had one 24mp camera(FX or otherwise)-a D600. I remember taking it to a wedding with me(as a guest) and taking a few hundred photos with it. Not to sidetrack, but it was a cousin's wedding and they didn't have a paid photographer(I didn't ask ahead of time but it was a lower budget affair in a relatives' friend/barn and the liquor budget took precedence over the photographer budget) so I sort of stepped into that role when I was there as much as I could without intruding-something I think they assumed I'd do all along even though I wasn't asked. I mention that because wedding dresses are often one of those places where moiré can show up, and sometimes with a vengeance on places like veils. I remember having to massage it out of 2-3 photos, but mostly the D600 was pretty resistant to it. I have no idea how strong its AA filter was, and considering that I sold it almost 3 years ago I can't do any real tests.

The potential 24mp cameras on my radar are a D3x if they ever come in price(yes, tell me how stupid I am for wanting one, but I still love using my D3s but just sometimes find the 12mp isn't QUITE enough and I love the general color rendition of this era Nikon cameras) and for the time comes when I can't resist jumping into the Z system I will likely start either with a Z6/Z6ii or Zf.

[ilkka_nissila]

The D800E had the similar two layers of OLPFs as the D800, but in the D800E the second layer was oriented so that it cancelled the effect of the first. The net effect was no OLPF. It meant both camera had the same optical stack thicknesses.

Canon used the same approach in the 5Ds and 5Ds R.

The D810 used a different approach where there was no OLPF. I got occasional moire problems with it. On the 45 MP sensors (D850, Z7/Z8/Z9) these problems are easier to avoid as the sensor resolution is adequate for most lenses and apertures to avoid most aliasing problems. Not completely though. With the 500 PF when using a tripod, fluid head and EFCS, I could see moire on bird close-ups. So a higher resolution sensor is needed for clean color texture rendering.

Edited October 21, 2023 by ilkka_nissila

[BeBu Lamar]

On 10/20/2023 at 4:55 AM, mike_halliwell said:

Before the Df came out there as speculation it had 3 control wheels, aperture, shutter and ISO..... which oddly IS what the Zf has with dials, kinda!

The Zf has 3 dials but there isn't one for the aperture. 

[ShunCheung]

The Zf has the main and sub-command dials, same as most Nikon DSLR and Z bodies since the F5 in 2016. (Some lower-end DSLRs such as the D3000 series use one physical dial to mimic two logical dials.) Typically the sub-command dial in front controls the aperture.

The Zf also has three knobs on top of the camera. They are for ISO, shutter speed and exposure compensation. Traditionally, aperture control is a ring on the lenses, until the F5 in 2016, and it optionally goes to the sub-command dial on the camera, but that can be re-programmed to the main command dial if one chooses. And on higher-end DSLRs with the aperture follower tab, one can still choose to use the aperture ring on the lens while maintaining aperture priority.

 

[hjoseph7]

On 9/21/2023 at 5:19 AM, mike_halliwell said:

I quite like the Olive one too. Mind you, you'd never lose the Orange one...!

it's a beautiful camera no doubt. As far as the different colors at $2000, this is not exactly a "hipster" camera used for casual streaming  and popular fashion. According to the specs, it's a pretty serious camera.  it's a novel idea though, but I would probably stick to black(or Chrome) if I had the money.  

Edited October 22, 2023 by hjoseph7

[mike_halliwell]

Regarding NEFX files...

If I take 32 RAW images with my Z6ii of the same view, can I get NX Studio to merge them?* or is it going to be metadata restricted?

One of the things mentioned in a couple of reviews is Moire reduction. Sounds interesting.

*If no-one knows, I might have to go and try it!

[ilkka_nissila]

I ran into a little problem trying to use my small Gitzo fluid head with a panoramic rail and Zf to do video of a lights festival on Sunday. I use the RRS panoramic rail to balance the Zf with 24-70/2.8 so that I can let go of the handle and the head won't drift up or down. I noticed that the 24-70's hood interfered with the front part of the panoramic rail. The reason is that the Zf bottom is only a few millimeters below the mount and the fitted Smallrig grip that came with the camera has a low profile and so the front of the lens with hood mounted does not fit properly with the rail. The Gitzo fluid head is meant for lenses like the 70-200/2.8 and mounting on the lens, so I can't blame them for the design. What's nice about the head is that it has the Arca-Swiss compatible QR system so the RRS panoramic rail will fit and normally allow direct mounting with larger cameras. Anyway if I removed the hood, it was okay, and I could also make the hood fit if I mounted the camera from its corner, which I wasn't terribly keen on, but it worked. However, that very same low profile of the Zf makes it balance nicely on the DJI RS 3 Mini gimbal stabilizer, so it's a case of conflicting requirements, I guess. I think I have a taller Arca-Swiss L-bracket that might give enough clearance for this setup to be used without mounting the camera off-center to the side, but it is quite substantial in weight, so some of the advantages of the camera go away. For video purposes, I could take just the base part which makes it OK, as the vertical component is removable.

 

I find it somewhat tricky to do video with these cameras as there are so many considerations with compatibility of parts that I haven't run into when using them for still photography. In particular using Arca-Swiss plates and L-brackets works with many still photography heads but most video (fluid) heads use their own systems which are not compatible. This includes the DJI gimbal which comes with its own QR system.  Also for the second time the microphone cable connector came loose when I moved the camera and tripod to get past spectators who parked themselves in front of my camera (unfortunately I only noticed it later). It always happens when photographing or videographing samba dancers. I only got a good signal on the L channel; the R was weak. I copied the L to the R tracks and it was usable, but whenever I try to get away with one microphone, it seems that something happens that ruins the audio (not completely, but to a point where it is not as high quality as it could have been). I'd like to have Nikon adopt either a digital audio interface (working with the microphone manufacturers and/or other camera manufacturers on a standard) or a cable that locks. There is a TASCAM CA-XLR2d Analog Interface Kit but it depends on the analog cable to record the signal by the camera, so it would not solve the problem that I'm having. I could try a different brand of cable to see if there is a problem with the one that came with the RODE microphone I've been using. Now, I hope Nikon doesn't modify the hot shoe to accept microphone signals in the way Canon did, causing for older flashes to require an adapter... but some kind of locking audio cable would be great.

 

The video image quality on the Zf was very nice though; I used the 4K 25 fps setting. It seems to give about 130 Mbit/s in 8-bit mode (quick calculation). The autofocus handled the chaotic samba situations quite well, not perfectly, as there were situations where the dancers formed a gap in front of my camera or were turned away, so the autofocus didn't have faces to focus on, but overall it works nicely. I would say the Zf AF is slightly less reliable than the Z8's but much better than what I had experienced with the Z6 II. I think if it hadn't been a twilight situation, stopping down to f/5.6 and using manual or preset focusing would have been appropriate, but unfortunately the light was low and I decided to shoot at f/2.8, so that required AF in practice. I need to do some editing but I'm getting closer to something usable. 😉

[BeBu Lamar]

On 10/22/2023 at 9:23 AM, ShunCheung said:

The Zf has the main and sub-command dials, same as most Nikon DSLR and Z bodies since the F5 in 2016. (Some lower-end DSLRs such as the D3000 series use one physical dial to mimic two logical dials.) Typically the sub-command dial in front controls the aperture.

The Zf also has three knobs on top of the camera. They are for ISO, shutter speed and exposure compensation. Traditionally, aperture control is a ring on the lenses, until the F5 in 2016, and it optionally goes to the sub-command dial on the camera, but that can be re-programmed to the main command dial if one chooses. And on higher-end DSLRs with the aperture follower tab, one can still choose to use the aperture ring on the lens while maintaining aperture priority.

 

Shun it's kind of terminology.

What you call knobs I call dials.

What you call dials I call wheels. 

So I meant the Zf has 3 knobs but there is none for the aperture. 

[ShunCheung]

The main-command dial and sub-command dial are standard Nikon terminology since, I suppose, the F5 in 1996.