Nikon Introduces the Retro, FX Mirrorless Zf

[mike_halliwell]

48 minutes ago, ShunCheung said:

The main-command dial and sub-command dial

The notched rubber-feel wheels that fall under your thumb and forefinger?

😉

[BeBu Lamar]

3 hours ago, mike_halliwell said:

The notched rubber-feel wheels that fall under your thumb and forefinger?

😉

I call them counting wheels. When you turn them the camera counts the number of click you turn clockwise or counter clockwise. 

Edited October 23, 2023 by BeBu Lamar

[ilkka_nissila]

There is a new firmware update to version 1.1:

https://downloadcenter.nikonimglib.com/en/download/fw/507.html

 

It includes explicit slow-motion options that you can select so that a higher fps rate is used for recording and playback is at a slower rate. Previously the videos captured at high frame rates were displayed at the captured rates.

 

There is also a bug fix related to the viewfinder going dark, I believe. I am not sure if I've encountered it; usually the screen going dark indicates I've blocked the EVF sensor somehow.

Edited November 17, 2023 by ilkka_nissila

[mike_halliwell]

44 minutes ago, ilkka_nissila said:

It includes explicit slow-motion options that you can select so that a higher fps rate is used for recording and playback is at a slower rate.

Hummmm, is that what they removed from the Z8 and Z9? You have to make the slo-mo version in post NOT in camera.... 🙁

My Z6ii does this in camera, viewable a few seconds after shooting stops. Great fun!   🙂

[ilkka_nissila]

1 hour ago, mike_halliwell said:

Hummmm, is that what they removed from the Z8 and Z9? You have to make the slo-mo version in post NOT in camera.... 🙁

My Z6ii does this in camera, viewable a few seconds after shooting stops. Great fun!   🙂

Do you decide beforehand which clip to play in slow motion?

[mike_halliwell]

1 hour ago, ilkka_nissila said:

Do you decide beforehand which clip to play in slow motion?

Yes, you decide when you select from the 'list' below.

 

 

[mike_halliwell]

So effectively 1920 x 1080 @ 120fps is available twice in the list.

To an extent, it makes sense to take it 'normally' rather than the dedicated slow-motion option as you can get a longer slow-motion clip, i think!

[ilkka_nissila]

1 hour ago, mike_halliwell said:

So effectively 1920 x 1080 @ 120fps is available twice in the list.

To an extent, it makes sense to take it 'normally' rather than the dedicated slow-motion option as you can get a longer slow-motion clip, i think!

Interesting that the length is limited like that. I guess they want to help the viewers avoid accidentally being moved into a trance by watching excessive slow-motion footage over 3 min in duration (12-15 min when played back). 😉

 

My thinking is that a lot of the time it's easiest to shoot normally and make the decision to make some clips slow motion afterwards. This works out, e.g., when shooting everything at a rate of 50 fps and then one can slow it down by 2x in software, at which point it just presents each frame twice, and then it can be exported at 50 fps. If you shoot at a higher frame rate than 60 fps (such as 100 fps) then it cannot be played back normally at the speed it has been captured at (in software you can, but not on most internet video presentation platforms). So you lose the option to view it in real time unless skipping frames, at which point it would get a staccato feel to it. Of course, in the future it may be possible to present videos at 100 fps or 120 fps online if it is considered useful. To me the option to choose the rate of slowing down afterwards is important and makes things easier at the shooting stage when not having to think about it, just shoot everything at 50 fps and 180 degree shutter.  😉 Or everything which may have to be shown in slow motion.

[mike_halliwell]

Of course the Z8 allows 4K @ 120fps, the Zf does not despite being a lower res sensor...?

The Zf has very similar video spec to the Z6ii, both 'limited' to 1920 x 1080 @ 120fps.

[ShunCheung]

13 minutes ago, mike_halliwell said:

Of course the Z8 allows 4K @ 120fps, the Zf does not despite being a lower res sensor...?

The Zf has very similar video spec to the Z6ii, both 'limited' to 1920 x 1080 @ 120fps.

The Zf and Z6ii use the same sensor, where the limitation is.

[mike_halliwell]

21 minutes ago, ShunCheung said:

The Zf and Z6ii use the same sensor, where the limitation is.

But it does have the Expeed 7..... 😉

[ilkka_nissila]

1 hour ago, mike_halliwell said:

Of course the Z8 allows 4K @ 120fps, the Zf does not despite being a lower res sensor...?

The Zf has very similar video spec to the Z6ii, both 'limited' to 1920 x 1080 @ 120fps.

Right, the Zf only has 4K up to 60 fps with DX crop. 4K 25 is without cropping. Higher frame rates are available in FullHD.

Z6 II has a lower crop factor in 4K 50 - 60 fps, I believe (1.2x ? I don't remember exactly). I recall the 4K50 recording was erratic on my older XQD cards but with the newer cards it did run. I guess with the Zf's limitation to SD UHS-II cards means they can't do higher-end video codecs. I read that they didn't include CFexpress cards due to the small body and heat production, it would get too hot. The Zf is quite thin, it's amazing it's a digital camera. 😉

Zf does have more options for autofocus during video recording, and it can display the waveform monitor which I love.  There is also internal 10-bit log recording which the Z6 II can't do (only via external recording is it available). I'm not really keen on log video as the base ISO is so high! It means basically that in log mode the camera is underexposing the image by several stops in order to create more exposure latitude in the highlights. I would think it better to let the user decide how much overexposure latitude they need rather than insist on such a large degree of underexposure as the highest-quality setting. I recall that in the latest firmware, the Z9 does let the user make these choices.

[lahuasteca]

So I read this entire string.  Do I really want a Zf.  Background, 78 yrs. old - current cameras (except the D7500), like me, very long in the tooth - FM3a, D60, D700, and D7500.  With the exception of the D7500 - the get out of my way and let me shoot - usually aperture priority, auto ISO, and AF single or AFA (not the FE2.  My question is - am I going to have to do a lot of menu configuration with the Zf - autofocus settings, metering, pixel shifts, etc.?  Thank you.

[ilkka_nissila]

5 hours ago, lahuasteca said:

So I read this entire string.  Do I really want a Zf.  Background, 78 yrs. old - current cameras (except the D7500), like me, very long in the tooth - FM3a, D60, D700, and D7500.  With the exception of the D7500 - the get out of my way and let me shoot - usually aperture priority, auto ISO, and AF single or AFA (not the FE2.  My question is - am I going to have to do a lot of menu configuration with the Zf - autofocus settings, metering, pixel shifts, etc.?  Thank you.

What kind of subject matter do you photograph? What lenses do you have, do you enjoy manual or autofocus lenses? The Zf requires an adapter (FTZ-II, or the original FTZ) to use F-mount lenses and while some lenses work great there are a few limitations. There is no AF on those AF Nikkors which don't have focus motors in the lens. Unfortunately I haven't used Ai or Ai-S lenses without CPUs on the Zf, so I don't know exactly how it behaves but there probably is no wide open viewing and metering, i.e. the EVF will brighten to show you the image but the lens stays at the shooting aperture when you compose and focus. Autofocus lenses are also stopped down to shooting aperture for focusing and composing unless an aperture smaller than f/5.6  is selected, at which point the lens is kept at f/5.6 or wide open when viewing; not sure if manual focus lenses have that same limit as well. This can be a good thing as it eliminates most problems with focus shift and produces more accurate autofocusing and a more stable viewfinder (as the image is not constantly changing in brightness due to focusing or between shots for composing). But it can also mean that in low light if you shoot stopped down there is a bit more noise and the AF can be slightly less decisive than if wide open were selected for shooting. I'm not an expert on the manual focus lens experience unfortunately as my manual focus lenses are either special purpose or have CPUs.

If the F-mount lens has a CPU and aperture ring, then you select the smallest aperture on the lens aperture ring and set the aperture from the sub-command dial from the body. With Nikon Z lenses you also use the sub-command dial to set the aperture, but some lenses can be programmed so that the aperture is controlled from a control ring on the lens. But there are no aperture markings engraved on the lens itself, so you can watch the aperture in the small window at the top of the camera. The Zf has interesting functions to help with manual focusing, including focus peaking (coloured overlay indicating areas of the image that are in focus according to some criteria), it can also detect the subject (e.g. human eyes) and when you focus manually there is a box that changes colour when the subject is exactly in focus, this is much more precise than peaking if you use a fast lens. You can also zoom in to see the details while focusing manually. So in some ways it's a superior camera for use with manual focus lenses, but the downside is lack of availability or limited use of the aperture ring in some lenses. There are some third-party Z mount manual focus and autofocus lenses with aperture rings that can be used, though, these seem to be gaining some interest and users. With most Nikon Z S-line lenses the manual focus ring is by default accelerated but it can be programmed to act without acceleration (people call it linear mode) at various rates (selected from a menu), this is a life-saving feature IMO. Note that in-camera VR is available on the Zf and this is wonderful as it offers stabilization also on prime lenses that don't have optical stabilization so there is an extra edge for low-light photography  with this camera (the high ISO performance is also very good).

 

Autofocus is similar to the Z8 but perhaps for fast moving subjects not quite as consistent. There are some advantages over the Z8 such as the Zf has more options for the custom wide-area modes, so there is more refinement possible when you want to decide which area of the frame the camera can focus on a subject. Generally autofocus on mirrorless cameras is used less with single point mode and more taking advantage of the camera's ability to detect subjects especially for people and animals.

 

I think you'll need to do some thorough menu diving to get it to work the way you want it to work, but it can be programmed to work in a fairly simple way as well. Once configured, I don't think twice about which camera I'm picking up, it becomes instinctive. But the Zf is a special camera and because it includes characteristics of modern and traditional cameras it is more complex. But it's wonderful in use, in my opinion, and I really like the camera a lot.

 

If you plan on getting the Zf, I would also consider what you plan to do with respect to lenses. You can use F-mount lenses with it via adapter, but it's not quite the same experience as using native lenses, and it's probably best to take this into account when considering the budget. If you need recommendations on Z lenses for specific tasks, do ask. If you plan on using F-mount lenses then it's also good to know which ones as the user experience on larger lenses with the adapter in place may not be quite as favourable on the rather thin Zf body as one could hope, though there are accessories which increase the size of the grip.

Edited November 29, 2023 by ilkka_nissila

[lahuasteca]

Hello Ikka,

Thank you for the very detailed response.  My type of photography is back country backpacking and some street shots - mainly in Latin America.  I'm thinking the Zf with 26 or 28 mm and 40 mm primes plus maybe a Voigtlander designed for the Z cameras.  The Voigtlander is chipped.  There would be no need for the adapter with these lenses.

[raczoliver]

Can someone please confirm that the ISO dial on the Zf sets the maximum value with auto ISO turned on, but only if the value selected is higher than the max ISO set in the menu? In that case I think I would set 100 as maximum in the menu, and simply use the dial to set the maximum. Most of the times I want the ISO value either fixed at base ISO, or have auto ISO on. I could simply achieve the former by turning the ISO dial to 100, even with auto ISO enabled. 

[ilkka_nissila]

3 hours ago, raczoliver said:

Can someone please confirm that the ISO dial on the Zf sets the maximum value with auto ISO turned on, but only if the value selected is higher than the max ISO set in the menu? In that case I think I would set 100 as maximum in the menu, and simply use the dial to set the maximum. Most of the times I want the ISO value either fixed at base ISO, or have auto ISO on. I could simply achieve the former by turning the ISO dial to 100, even with auto ISO enabled. 

Well, yes and no. You can use it in this way (set max ISO in the menu at a low value and override using the dial) but the smallest maximum ISO setting is 200, not 100.

 

The camera uses the ISO dial setting as a suggested ISO in auto ISO mode that it defaults to if it can achieve correct exposure by adjusting the other free parameters that the user has given it. Only if it cannot achieve correct exposure using the ISO set by the user will auto ISO take action and override the user's ISO choice. It is the same in  all Nikon cameras that support auto ISO as far as I know.

[raczoliver]

12 hours ago, ilkka_nissila said:

Well, yes and no. You can use it in this way (set max ISO in the menu at a low value and override using the dial) but the smallest maximum ISO setting is 200, not 100.

 

The camera uses the ISO dial setting as a suggested ISO in auto ISO mode that it defaults to if it can achieve correct exposure by adjusting the other free parameters that the user has given it. Only if it cannot achieve correct exposure using the ISO set by the user will auto ISO take action and override the user's ISO choice. It is the same in  all Nikon cameras that support auto ISO as far as I know.

That makes sense, however, I would really like it if it was possible to set base ISO as the highest value used for auto ISO, even though logically I can see why that is not offered.

 

I suppose I never noticed that my cameras tried to default to the manually selected ISO even when auto ISO was turned on is because with auto ISO enabled, I almost exclusively use M exposure mode, which gives the camera very little to work with to try and achieve correct exposure (without changing the ISO).

 

It is mostly tripod-mounted landscape, night city, or studio flash photography  when I have auto ISO turned off and the ISO value manually fixed at base ISO. I was hoping there was a way to switch without diving into the menus or assigning a custom button, of which there are not very many on the Zf. 

[ilkka_nissila]

9 hours ago, raczoliver said:

That makes sense, however, I would really like it if it was possible to set base ISO as the highest value used for auto ISO, even though logically I can see why that is not offered.

 

I suppose I never noticed that my cameras tried to default to the manually selected ISO even when auto ISO was turned on is because with auto ISO enabled, I almost exclusively use M exposure mode, which gives the camera very little to work with to try and achieve correct exposure (without changing the ISO).

 

It is mostly tripod-mounted landscape, night city, or studio flash photography  when I have auto ISO turned off and the ISO value manually fixed at base ISO. I was hoping there was a way to switch without diving into the menus or assigning a custom button, of which there are not very many on the Zf. 

I switch Auto ISO on / off by pressing the front Fn button which for me opens up My Menu and the Auto ISO setting is at the top of the list in my My Menu configuration. Basically I press Fn and then OK to toggle Auto ISO. Two button presses is not so complicated. There are other ways but I prefer this because I can put other important things in lower positions of My Menu. On my Z8 I have Fn2 to open My Menu.