Nikon Introduces the Retro, FX Mirrorless Zf

[robert_bouknight1]

It would be interesting to compare a maximum resolution file from a Zf to a 45MP file, assuming both cameras bolted to rigid tripods and something like a cathedral for a subject.  But not really practical for my style of almost always handheld photography while on the go.

In my own comparisons of handheld results, I can't tell much difference between 24 and 45 MP when viewing on a monitor, but I keep on wasting file storage space with 45MP anyway, always grabbing the 45MP camera first unless I know I will be shooting in very low light.  I was "taught" to always capture as much image quality as possible, and just can't let go of that concept.

For some, the combination of a better high ISO sensor and sensor shift higher res where applicable might be attractive.

 

[Sandy Vongries]

Strangely enough, my most recent new camera, as opposed to new to me, was the DF I bought 8 years ago, a camera I still use regularly and greatly enjoy.  I had looked at the Zfc, but don't need another DX camera.  I believe I'll pony up some dollars and get this one.  Would prefer it in silver and black, but suspect if / when that comes out, it will be at a premium price.  Right now my plan is to order the Z adapter rather than another lens.  In re: the grip, a friend uses these https://smallrig.com/SmallRig-L-Shape-Handle-for-Nikon-Zf-4262.html and finds them very good.

[mike_halliwell]

Whose ever heard of trickle-up tech?

🤣

[ilkka_nissila]

On 9/23/2023 at 8:38 PM, mike_halliwell said:

I think the noise reduction, rather than the higher pixel count is more important... full info per pixel is very useful.

But since there is likely an optical low-pass filter on the Zf, how would this work? It seems pixel shift can only recover the full RGB info per pixel cleanly if there is no OLPF. I have read the Z6 sensor has OLPF along only one direction and not the orthogonal one. So maybe this is how it would give some benefit, but still it is better suited for cameras without any OLPF.

Edited September 24, 2023 by ilkka_nissila

[ilkka_nissila]

50 minutes ago, mike_halliwell said:

Whose ever heard of trickle-up tech?

🤣

Well, there are many features over the history of Nikon cameras which showed up first on mid grade cameras and then the higher end. Do you want a list? 😉 

[mike_halliwell]

1 hour ago, ilkka_nissila said:

Do you want a list? 😉 

Nah, I believe you!

[roland_vink]

On 9/23/2023 at 8:04 PM, mike_halliwell said:

I really wonder why Nikon introduced something as innovative (to Nikon) as Pixel Shift shooting in a retro body, when the flagship Z9 has only been out 2 years, and its successor, the Z8 only 4 months ago without it..... and for 1/3 the price no less!

The Z9 and Z8 cameras are 45MP, so the need for even higher resolution images is comparatively less than a 24MP camera like the Zf. So it looks like Nikon decided to introduce this technology into a camera which would benefit most from it.

If the need for pixel shift is to reduce noise, then instead of taking 4 images and combining them, why not just take one image with 4x longer shutter speed (and two stops lower ISO), wouldn't this give you a similar reduction in noise? If you are already shooting at or near base ISO, the noise will be very low already, so the only purpose for pixel shift is for higher resolution. But if high resolution is what you need, you would probably be using the Z7, Z8, Z9 or medium format instead of a 24MP camera...

[bgelfand]

11 hours ago, roland_vink said:

But if high resolution is what you need, you would probably be using the Z7, Z8, Z9 or medium format instead of a 24MP camera...

Not so, unless you have an unlimited budget. If you need high resolution only part of the time and have a limited budget, you might well be shooting a Z6III which is half the price of a Z8, about 1/3 the price of a Z9, and about 2/3 the price of a Z7II. This assumes the Z6II could be converted to Pixel Shift with a firmware upgrade at no cost.

[ben_hutcherson]

7 hours ago, Sandy Vongries said:

  In re: the grip, a friend uses these https://smallrig.com/SmallRig-L-Shape-Handle-for-Nikon-Zf-4262.html and finds them very good.

I have one on my X-T5. Fuji makes their own version, but it's something like $120 vs. $40. From playing with them in the camera store, the Fuji version has a little better fit-up and is available in black(the only Smallrig I've seen for the X-T5 is silver) but the SmallRig gives a bit larger of a grip.

Either way, for these little cameras like this to me they're an almost perfect addition. Not only do they give you more palm grip, but if you stick it on an A-S compatible tripod head(or adapter) it's so nice to feel like the camera is quite literally locked directly onto the tripod.

I know that's a lot of rambling, but basically I'm just saying that I consider them a worthwhile addition and a good product at a reasonable price.

When I looked at a ZFc in person before deciding on the X-T5(decision driven by the more complete line-up of purpose made APS-C lenses-I mostly liked the ZFc handling better and took to it pretty quickly despite not really having used the Z cameras, and 4 months of decently heavy use later of the X-T5 has gotten better but still leaves me frustrated at times where my Nikon DSLRs seem to continue to just do what I want them to do...) the shop had a Smallrig grip on their display ZFc.

[Sandy Vongries]

Ordered the Z f and FTZ II this morning.  Apparently shortfalls are anticipated based on preorders.  We'll just have to see, it is not as if I am lacking cameras.  Later!

[ShunCheung]

2 hours ago, Sandy Vongries said:

Ordered the Z f and FTZ II this morning.  Apparently shortfalls are anticipated based on preorders.  We'll just have to see, it is not as if I am lacking cameras.  Later!

Did you get an orange one? 🙂  I would highly recommend getting one wider lens, as those lenses have improved significantly in the Z mount. Even the 24-70mm/f4 S is very good, and inexpensive in the used market.

[Sandy Vongries]

3 hours ago, ShunCheung said:

Did you get an orange one? 🙂  I would highly recommend getting one wider lens, as those lenses have improved significantly in the Z mount. Even the 24-70mm/f4 S is very good, and inexpensive in the used market.

Bordeaux Red, Gray second choice if I must to get one when reality sets in. As you might guess, having been with Nikon over half a century, I have a lens or two.   The Voigtländer selection seems interesting, have excellent rep, and match the retro look better than Nikon.  They are bit dear!

[mike_halliwell]

4 hours ago, Sandy Vongries said:

and match the retro look better than Nikon. 

Now, someone has got to make a Nikon F > Z adapter that looks better than the FTZ I or II on these retro bodies....🙂

[ilkka_nissila]

2 hours ago, mike_halliwell said:

Now, someone has got to make a Nikon F > Z adapter that looks better than the FTZ I or II on these retro bodies....🙂

I suspect that a reverse engineered adapter would be a disaster in terms of compatibility and camera support... FTZ II is all black, I don't see why it would not fit with a black Zf body.

[mike_halliwell]

14 minutes ago, ilkka_nissila said:

a reverse engineered adapter would be a disaster in terms of compatibility and camera support

I suspect many 'retro' users will be using fully manual lenses, so a nice, pretty but dumb, adapter will suffice......🤣

The very wide throat diameter lends itself to some nice tapered, hey maybe even scalloped, designs....👍

[ShunCheung]

48 minutes ago, ilkka_nissila said:

I suspect that a reverse engineered adapter would be a disaster in terms of compatibility and camera support... FTZ II is all black, I don't see why it would not fit with a black Zf body.

But you need to match the colors on different Zf bodies. A hot pink version just like the Nikon J1 would be great. 😁

[mike_halliwell]

28 minutes ago, ShunCheung said:

A hot pink version just like the Nikon J1

Pink and Chrome...... Ummmmm....🤔

[Sandy Vongries]

In re: the adapter, my buddy, also a long time Nikon user, has the version 2 and says it is very good.  Don't plan to go down the rabbit hole of Z mount lenses.  If the adapter isn't as good as described, worst case I'll get one Z mount.  I have other interchangeable lens cameras that I use as if they were fixed lens.

[BeBu Lamar]

I actually like the fully articulate screen of the Zf which can be fold in when not in use. That would protect the screen. 

[ilkka_nissila]

1 hour ago, BeBu Lamar said:

I actually like the fully articulate screen of the Zf which can be fold in when not in use. That would protect the screen. 

I've used digital cameras since 2004, probably taken over 1 million frames with them and never got even a slightest mark on the back LCD screen. I think the screen is well protected as it is and probably the hinge of an articulating screen is a greater risk than the glass.

[ilkka_nissila]

2 hours ago, Sandy Vongries said:

In re: the adapter, my buddy, also a long time Nikon user, has the version 2 and says it is very good.  Don't plan to go down the rabbit hole of Z mount lenses.  If the adapter isn't as good as described, worst case I'll get one Z mount.  I have other interchangeable lens cameras that I use as if they were fixed lens.

Unfortunately once you get that one Z lens, you'll notice how much better it is and then you'll likely get a whole set.

[Sandy Vongries]

5 minutes ago, ilkka_nissila said:

Unfortunately once you get that one Z lens, you'll notice how much better it is and then you'll likely get a whole set.

I literally don't remember every Nikon lens I have, and the cabinet is full.  Results with current and even very old F mount lenses have been very good on the current cameras, latest of which is a D810.   We'll see what role the new camera fits.  Just learning a new camera is something I pursue at considerable length and much enjoy.

[ben_hutcherson]

This may well become my first Z mount camera.

Combined with the 24-70 f/4 S, it could make a formidable set-up for my uses for times now when I use the X-T5+16-80 f/4. The X-T5 is certainly a formidable and capable camera, but there are times when I find the Fuji UI fustrating compared to my Nikons, and 40mp is honestly hugely overkill both for the times I use it and also for the lenses I'm usually using it with.

I'm not buying until I can get one in my hands, though(as in the local store has a display model) and even then I may hold off for a little while.

[mike_halliwell]

2 minutes ago, ben_hutcherson said:

Combined with the 24-70 f/4 S,

I'd seriously consider the 24-120mm f4: those extra 50mm are quite handy. 

Only downside is no VR, but the Zf's IBIS is the best yet.

[Sandy Vongries]

May be a while before you get your hands on one, apparently the advance sales are going very well and filling those orders S/B first priority.  I would not be likely to see one out here.  Had both my wife & best friend egging me on or I might not have done it.  I also find the 24-120 to be a very useful range.