Kentmere Pan 120 frame numbers barely legible

[gary green]

Kentmere Pan 120 black & white film has recently become available and at a price slightly lower than my previous go-to film, Arista Ultra, so I decided to buy 20 rolls.  This morning I loaded my first roll, closed the camera back, and began winding to the first frame ... and winding and winding until I realized something was amiss.  Normally, with my old folders, I load my film in subdued light to minimize the chance of light leak through the red frame counter window.  However, what I realized was that the frame numbers were so lightly printed on the backing paper that I had skipped over the first couple of frames.  I had to unload the camera in my darkroom, rewind the film, and then reload it in bright light so I could see the frame numbers.

Here's a comparison to demonstrate.  The camera on the left is wound to frame 1 using Kenmore Pan.  The camera on the right shows frame 1 on Arista Ultra.

I always wonder how this sort of snafu makes it to the production line.  I don't think this is simply a bad batch of backing paper because I found others complaining about it on the web.  Maybe the lower cost of the film is due to savings on printer ink?

BTW, I use metal washers attached with double-sided tape so I can place a flat magnet to cover the window during use.

[Niels - NHSN]

There was a lot of complaints about faint imprint of frame numbers onto 120 film a few years back.
As I understand, it was mostly applicable to expired film and was observed on both Kodak and Ilford products.
Both manufacturers reduced the amount of ink used as a consequence.

[gary green]

3 minutes ago, Niels - NHSN said:

There was a lot of complaints about faint imprint of frame numbers onto 120 film a few years back.
As I understand, it was mostly applicable to expired film and was observed on both Kodak and Ilford products.
Both manufacturers reduced the amount of ink used as a consequence.

Their solution certainly "exceeded expectations" but in the wrong way.

[John Seaman]

1 hour ago, gary green said:

I use metal washers attached with double-sided tape so I can place a flat magnet to cover the window during use.

That's a good idea.

The last time I tried to use a folder I just couldn't see the numbers. I only use camera with automatic winding  mechanisms now.

[Niels - NHSN]

Here’s a discussion about the phenomenon related to Kodak. Similar problems were seen at Ilford (probably same backing paper manufacturer?).

It resulted in changes to backing paper printing etc.

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/kodak-120-film-backing-paper-problems-emulsions-affected.137251/

The 120 customers using folders are probably a minority. 

[chuck_foreman1]

(Maxwell smart voice) "The old double-sided tape magnetic washer trick! " I use masking tape, but it leaves sticky stuff after whic can be cleaned off.. but the leather suffers from the cleaning. Is the double-sided tape strong enough to overcome the magnets? 
I recall using Ilford?? a good while back.. and suffered this curse.  I inevitably screw something up with these ruby window only ... weither I go past the number, (with 645 folder 2-window), get confused which frame I'm on, and the old double exposure trick 😞 too.
Sorry for your 20 roll learning curve experience 😞

 

[gary green]

Hi Chuck @chuck_foreman1.  I use a quality double-sided foam tape (not the cheap white stuff that disintegrates) that is plenty strong enough.  I have been able to remove it without damaging the leather(ette) but generally it's on to stay.

[glen_h]

One film I use has silver ink on black paper.

More than the ink color, I sometimes don't recognize the 1 as a 1.

With all the dots and lines that come before the first 1, it isn't so easy to see.

And some cameras have a green window.

[robert_ante]

I have a very nice Super Ikonta A. With Ilford film impossible to see anything. Tried Fomapan, much better but still difficult to see numbers. Perhaps over the years the red window became darker. Then I remembered that my Hasselblad backs for 1000F had no red window. So I cut out a bit of red window in order to see numbers. The Super Ikonta has a sliding cover to shade film once wound; the old Hassy backs had a folding cover. Will this work? Haven’t developed film yet to see if any light leaks.

[bruce_z._li2]

In subdued light, the backing paper should prevent any light leak even without red window. At least that was my experience. 

[chuck_foreman1]

Curious to see if your work-around was succeasful. I've had problems seeing the Ilford numbers too. As you mentioned 520A I have suffered löight leaks continually. I'm told it's the octogon body shape, the red windows theselves, the higher sensitivity of modern filn, and I've noted the later frames are suffering more. A previous contributor apparently had such problems... posted a pic of his approach to the windows. I tried to emulate his version, mine was not very successful. I manaully cover trhe red windows lifting only to advance. Some help, but not reliable.

 

I thought I had a pic of the completed camera... in any case ..this was helpful for me.