Guitarist

[mikemorrellNL]

I really like like the idea of a 'critique' forum! But's it's been years since I've submitted a photo. This just happens to be a recent photo (July) which I'm quite pleased with. I was sitting in the audience of a 'guitar concert' and took a few photo, including this one. I should add that I know this guy (a guitar teacher) quite well. He's also the MD of my Big Band and also the leader of series of 'Jazz improvision workshops' that I recently followed.

My most recent B/W version:

 

The original color version:

Edited August 1, 2023 by mikemorrellNL

[Wayne Melia]

B/W always emphasizes the face

[dcstep]

Mike, I much prefer the B/W. In the color version, the bright subject overwhelms the dark BG, IMO. I know that you're shooting from the audience and didn't want to disturb other, but I wish that we could see all of his right hand.

I love that he's using music. As trumpeter and sometime guitarist, I almost always use music. Classical musicians tend to almost always read as they play.

[DanJM]

Black and white is often so much better in portraits and this is a great example. I understand that our perception of shape depends largely on contrast of value, so eliminating color really emphasizes features. Your subject has an interesting expression, which B&W serves well. 

[mikemorrellNL]

@Wayne Melia, @dcstep and @DanJM, many thanks for your positive comments.

TBH. I very rarely make B/W versions these days. When I took another look at the color photo, I wondered if a B/W version might bring out (=emphasize) the tonal contrasts in the face more than the color version does. It seems you agree 🙂.

@dcstep: yes I agree that a photo that included his right hand would have been better. I was sitting on the far right of the concert hall and the guitar teacher was sitting on the far left of the stage. So it's probably a 200mm shot. As far as I remember, I was probably 'standing up'. But at that distance, his right hand was still hidden behind the music stand. Great to hear that you're a trumpeter and sometime guitarist. I played guitar from my early teens until into my 40's.: amateur play-along rock, folk, classical, etc. I even played 1 concert in a bar (which no-one listened to😉). Since then, I've played tenor sax.  First in a local 'wind orchestra' (light classical) but for the last 20 years in local Big Bands. Big Band music is - as is classical - written out in detail. Each player has his/her own written 'part', with the exception of 'free solo's'. I've been a tenor sax player for 20+ years and over the years, I've sold off my guitars. But I still enjoy listening to good guitarists. Or - as in this case - guitar students of all ages and styles playing together at the end of a study year. I still have a bass guitar and I'm now seriously thinking of buying a decent guitar again 🙂.

[pavel_l.]

I like the black an white version more than the color one. Very nicely executed shot.

I rather see the preparation (reading the new play) than the concert performance.

Cheers.

[samstevens]

I realize you took this as a portrait and, therefore, the concentration is on his face. I don’t know that his expression is the most compelling feature here, however. Still, I think there’s enough potential support in the image to underscore the musical expressiveness. That, for me, is in the graphic relationships. Those vertical bars in the background have a very “sheet music” feel to them, and the increase in lighting from left to right provides rhythm. I think that could be played up some and even “harmonize” with the graphics on the neck of the guitar and the diagonal of the neck itself. His arm is both flesh and another important geometrical/rhythmic line. Also in the graphic mix are the tops of the music books, as they catch the light, the blur of one of the books providing the greatest sense of movement in the photo. I think some conscious attention to drawing out these elements in post processing might provide an even more orchestrated portrait. 

As far as the color version is concerned, with some color correction to remove some of the yellow bias, I wouldn’t rule it out. As I switch back and forth between the color and the black and white, I’m aware that the lighting on the guitar brings it out a bit more in the color version. It also seems to bring the neck of the guitar forward, creating some added depth to the photo. Even if you stick with the b/w, I’d consider that in the conversion process. 

My first impression of this (and it’s stayed with me) is that it’s a stark and very still portrait, very frozen in the moment and in his almost rock solid expression. I can see why you like it and wonder if considering the photo as more of a whole (a little less of the central subject against background dichotomy) and allowing some of the supporting elements more of a contrapuntal voice might deepen the “sound” of the photo. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by samstevens

[marc_rochkind]

Given that you can't do anything about the hand at this point, you can at least prevent the eye from going there as quickly by toning down the white of the pages on the music stand. Same for the white under his left arm, and the white at the extreme right.

[samstevens]

By the way, the hand being blocked by the music doesn’t bother me. It suggests to me live performance and a degree of spontaneity. It also puts me in your position, obviously somewhat restricted as audience member. That it’s blocked by music adds a bit of natural texture and metaphor. And that the music is blurred suggests to me the implied movement of the hand. 

[mikemorrellNL]

18 hours ago, marc_rochkind said:

Given that you can't do anything about the hand at this point, you can at least prevent the eye from going there as quickly by toning down the white of the pages on the music stand. Same for the white under his left arm, and the white at the extreme right.

Good points - thank you for these! In the color version,. I did remove the 'reds'  from the originally bright red leads bottom right. but I hadn't considered toning down the white highlights on the musc sheet or 'blending' the light and shadow on the left arm.

[mikemorrellNL]

On 8/3/2023 at 5:39 AM, samstevens said:

I realize you took this as a portrait and, therefore, the concentration is on his face. I don’t know that his expression is the most compelling feature here, however. Still, I think there’s enough potential support in the image to underscore the musical expressiveness. That, for me, is in the graphic relationships. Those vertical bars in the background have a very “sheet music” feel to them, and the increase in lighting from left to right provides rhythm. I think that could be played up some and even “harmonize” with the graphics on the neck of the guitar and the diagonal of the neck itself. His arm is both flesh and another important geometrical/rhythmic line. Also in the graphic mix are the tops of the music books, as they catch the light, the blur of one of the books providing the greatest sense of movement in the photo. I think some conscious attention to drawing out these elements in post processing might provide an even more orchestrated portrait. 

As far as the color version is concerned, with some color correction to remove some of the yellow bias, I wouldn’t rule it out. As I switch back and forth between the color and the black and white, I’m aware that the lighting on the guitar brings it out a bit more in the color version. It also seems to bring the neck of the guitar forward, creating some added depth to the photo. Even if you stick with the b/w, I’d consider that in the conversion process. 

My first impression of this (and it’s stayed with me) is that it’s a stark and very still portrait, very frozen in the moment and in his almost rock solid expression. I can see why you like it and wonder if considering the photo as more of a whole (a little less of the central subject against background dichotomy) and allowing some of the supporting elements more of a contrapuntal voice might deepen the “sound” of the photo. 

 

Thanks for your detailed review, Sam! I took multiple photos of about 8 different groups of guitar students on stage and selected 1 'best one' for each group. This 'guitar teacher' was delighted and distributed them to his pupils. You're right that this photo is the only 'informal' portrait I took during one of the group performances. I didn't feel comfortable taking 'close-ups' of his students, 90% of whom were under 18. The term 'concentration' is exactly what struck me about this photo. Thanks for your suggestions on further post-processing.

Generally, I much prefer color photos than B/W. The only reason I experimented with a B/W version in this case was that the 'stage lighting' produced a lot of highlights. I just wondered how these would translate to B/W. Not a detailed B/W analysis but just picking a 'look' that I liked from a Topaz B/W plugin. 

FWIW, I did do a WB correction (of all selected photos) in Lightroom. I can't remember whether it was based on 'auto' or 'grey sampling'. But IMHO Lightroom Auto/Sample sometimes produces a technically accurate but (emotionally) cooler WB than I want. So I - as I sometimes do - I probably 'warmed up' the Auto/Sample WB slightly to bring a bit more warmth into his skin and the guitar.

Your comment about the color version having more depth than the B/W version is really interesting! And I totally agree! Bearing in mind your comment, the B/W version does indeed look 'flat' compared to the color version (which FWIW I delivered!).

I also agree that the photo is a "stark and very still portrait, very frozen in the moment". Classical guitarists do (as in this case) tend to remain static with their left foot on a footrest. I also realize that the only previous photo I've ever posted for critique (accordionist) was pretty much the same 🙂. In the past, I've deliberatly tried - where possible - to capture the 'dynamics' of musicians in action. Sadly, - as a volunteer 'static'' photographer for the past 5 yrears - I've gotten into the habit of trying to take 'sharp' photos. I.e. 'static, frozen in time'

My key takeaway from your comment is that's a wake-up call to (once again) experiment more with photos. Especially w.r.t. shutter speed. A slightly slower shutter speed might have captured  a more dynamic and interesting photo. Perhaps not in this case, but I now realize that my (personal) photography has been stuck in a rut for some years.

Back in the day, a photography course encouraged us to experiment with different kinds of camera settings (and lighting) to produce different kinds of images. Not all of which were 'sharp'!  Over the years, I've kind of lost this flexibility. So I'm grateful for this wake-up call (intended or not 😉).

[mikemorrellNL]

19 hours ago, samstevens said:

By the way, the hand being blocked by the music doesn’t bother me. It suggests to me live performance and a degree of spontaneity. It also puts me in your position, obviously somewhat restricted as audience member. That it’s blocked by music adds a bit of natural texture and metaphor. And that the music is blurred suggests to me the implied movement of the hand. 

True, I was just an ordinary audience member at the opposite side of the stage from this guy.  I've photographed a few events over the years and I've found that it makes a huge difference whether you're there as 'just one more amateur photographer' (most of whom have cellphone cameras) or whether you're there as an 'invited, house' photographer. The latter gives me licence to stand/sit wherever I want to be and take the photos I want to take. No 'event photographer', of course wants to be (unduly) intrusive. He/she never wants to get in the way of the event itself. But in this case, if I was the 'invited photographer' then I would have felt much more freedom to move around, take close-ups from the wings, etc.
 

Who knows, maybe next year 🙂

[Wayne Melia]

9 hours ago, mikemorrellNL said:

 

Thanks for your detailed review, Sam! I took multiple photos of about 8 different groups of guitar students on stage and selected 1 'best one' for each group. This 'guitar teacher' was delighted and distributed them to his pupils. You're right that this photo is the only 'informal' portrait I took during one of the group performances. I didn't feel comfortable taking 'close-ups' of his students, 90% of whom were under 18. The term 'concentration' is exactly what struck me about this photo. Thanks for your suggestions on further post-processing.

Generally, I much prefer color photos than B/W. The only reason I experimented with a B/W version in this case was that the 'stage lighting' produced a lot of highlights. I just wondered how these would translate to B/W. Not a detailed B/W analysis but just picking a 'look' that I liked from a Topaz B/W plugin. 

FWIW, I did do a WB correction (of all selected photos) in Lightroom. I can't remember whether it was based on 'auto' or 'grey sampling'. But IMHO Lightroom Auto/Sample sometimes produces a technically accurate but (emotionally) cooler WB than I want. So I - as I sometimes do - I probably 'warmed up' the Auto/Sample WB slightly to bring a bit more warmth into his skin and the guitar.

Your comment about the color version having more depth than the B/W version is really interesting! And I totally agree! Bearing in mind your comment, the B/W version does indeed look 'flat' compared to the color version (which FWIW I delivered!).

I also agree that the photo is a "stark and very still portrait, very frozen in the moment". Classical guitarists do (as in this case) tend to remain static with their left foot on a footrest. I also realize that the only previous photo I've ever posted for critique (accordionist) was pretty much the same 🙂. In the past, I've deliberatly tried - where possible - to capture the 'dynamics' of musicians in action. Sadly, - as a volunteer 'static'' photographer for the past 5 yrears - I've gotten into the habit of trying to take 'sharp' photos. I.e. 'static, frozen in time'

My key takeaway from your comment is that's a wake-up call to (once again) experiment more with photos. Especially w.r.t. shutter speed. A slightly slower shutter speed might have captured  a more dynamic and interesting photo. Perhaps not in this case, but I now realize that my (personal) photography has been stuck in a rut for some years.

Back in the day, a photography course encouraged us to experiment with different kinds of camera settings (and lighting) to produce different kinds of images. Not all of which were 'sharp'!  Over the years, I've kind of lost this flexibility. So I'm grateful for this wake-up call (intended or not 😉).

"stark and frozen" is at the heart of this photo. That's what defines the gesture.

Likewise the 'flatness'.

Not all visual tools apply to to every photo, and your choice(s) make the success.

More dynamism would make it a completely different photo.

[mikemorrellNL]

12 hours ago, Wayne Melia said:

"stark and frozen" is at the heart of this photo. That's what defines the gesture.

Likewise the 'flatness'.

Not all visual tools apply to to every photo, and your choice(s) make the success.

More dynamism would make it a completely different photo.

Thank you!

[robert_ante]

Nor does the partially hidden hand bother me. When shooting, we take what we can get. For me, a formal portrait would not be as interesting as this “live” portrait.

[michael_kucinich]

Nice image mike. Although the black and white image is quite good, I prefer the welcoming feel of the color image with its warm tones.

[JDMvW]

Unlike marriage in America, there's no law that you can have only one version of an image

.

[mikemorrellNL]

@robert_ante: thanks for your comment - I agree!  This is by no means an 'informal street portrait' but it's a less than optimal 'portrait from the audience'. I totally agree that - as amateurs taking taking 'informal portraits' - we take the best that we can get. Some 'informal portraits' turn out to be amazing, others 'good enough' (as I feel this is) and others - politely expressed - just 'disappointing'.

I think that there's a huge difference between the situations where you:

a) attend an event primarily to enjoy the event and maybe take a couple of pics, and

b) attend an event primarily to take some photos

That's why I simply wanted to simply enjoy the music and the atmosphere without worrying about photos. I just poped my head up very now and again to get 1 shot per group.

 

[mikemorrellNL]

13 hours ago, michael_kucinich said:

Nice image mike. Although the black and white image is quite good, I prefer the welcoming feel of the color image with its warm tones.

Thanks Michael!  I agree that the B/W version does lose the warmth of the color version. There's also the comment on the 'flatness' of the B/W version compared to the color version. TBH, I posted the B/W version just as an experiment. Opinions between color and B/W appear to be mixed so far. 

I'll take all constructive comments into account. But my preference is (with very exceptions) always a color version. Which I've aleady delivered BTW.

[Robin Smith]

As a shot it's fine. If it is to be in color then I suggest it needs some of the warmth being removed from it.  It's a bit uninteresting: a spark of life, a gleam in the eye, an excited, dynamic expression may be too much to ask for in a classical guitar concert, but I think that would have made it more interesting. Perhaps a shot of the gent communicating musically while playing with the other members in the jazz or big band setting would be more exciting. It reminds me of the sort of shot I took of my kids in their school concerts. A problem with classical concerts when they are on stage is always the music stands that get in the way. A higher vantage point helps then.

[mikemorrellNL]

On 8/18/2023 at 4:46 PM, Robin Smith said:

As a shot it's fine. If it is to be in color then I suggest it needs some of the warmth being removed from it.  It's a bit uninteresting: a spark of life, a gleam in the eye, an excited, dynamic expression may be too much to ask for in a classical guitar concert, but I think that would have made it more interesting. Perhaps a shot of the gent communicating musically while playing with the other members in the jazz or big band setting would be more exciting. It reminds me of the sort of shot I took of my kids in their school concerts. A problem with classical concerts when they are on stage is always the music stands that get in the way. A higher vantage point helps then.

Thanks, Robin!  I agree on both counts. FWIW, I do have a photo of the gent communicating (much more expressively) with 3 other guitarists. A learning point for me is why I continue to post 'static, close-up, informal portraits' for critique rather than more expressive, dynamic ones. Your comment has certainly made me think aboout this! I think I've probably got into a rut w.r.t. which kind of photos I instinctively like.

Comments like yours help me break out of the rut.

 

Thanks,

Mike

[samstevens]

1 hour ago, mikemorrellNL said:

why I continue to post 'static, close-up, informal portraits' for critique rather than more expressive, dynamic ones

Maybe that's what you're naturally drawn to??? If so, you could make that work for you. With more static content could come a more determined approach that could be interesting. Both in the shooting phase and in the post phase. You often don't have control over your positioning and your subject's expressions, but there's a lot you can give to these kinds of shots, either to work against the static nature or to embrace it if you want to. As examples, take a look at some of the more stark portraits by Karsh and Avedon and see if these comport more with where some of your own tendencies lie. Obviously, these are set up but I think there are takeaways to which your more candid situation might adapt. And, "stark" is just one idea. There are many other approaches that could enhance and deepen static subjects.

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&sca_esv=558787020&rls=en&sxsrf=AB5stBiCBMUQUerUeCdoX2KQf3DJi7-R2A:1692631809243&q=karsh+portraits&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjLw-btiO6AAxXjOkQIHc2HAFQQ0pQJegQIDBAB&biw=1356&bih=682&dpr=2

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&sca_esv=558777580&rls=en&sxsrf=AB5stBha9COYPbpAkC9Me2XYBxjrbbMaoQ:1692631426568&q=avedon+portraits&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjp8am3h-6AAxXmE0QIHbmuB-QQ0pQJegQIDRAB&biw=1356&bih=682&dpr=2

[pavel_l.]

8 hours ago, samstevens said:

Maybe that's what you're naturally drawn to??? If so, you could make that work for you. With more static content could come a more determined approach that could be interesting. Both in the shooting phase and in the post phase. You often don't have control over your positioning and your subject's expressions, but there's a lot you can give to these kinds of shots, either to work against the static nature or to embrace it if you want to. As examples, take a look at some of the more stark portraits by Karsh and Avedon and see if these comport more with where some of your own tendencies lie. Obviously, these are set up but I think there are takeaways to which your more candid situation might adapt. And, "stark" is just one idea. There are many other approaches that could enhance and deepen static subjects.

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&sca_esv=558787020&rls=en&sxsrf=AB5stBiCBMUQUerUeCdoX2KQf3DJi7-R2A:1692631809243&q=karsh+portraits&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjLw-btiO6AAxXjOkQIHc2HAFQQ0pQJegQIDBAB&biw=1356&bih=682&dpr=2

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&sca_esv=558777580&rls=en&sxsrf=AB5stBha9COYPbpAkC9Me2XYBxjrbbMaoQ:1692631426568&q=avedon+portraits&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjp8am3h-6AAxXmE0QIHbmuB-QQ0pQJegQIDRAB&biw=1356&bih=682&dpr=2

Thank you for the second link, it lead to discovery this invaluable and refreshing 5 lessons of Richard Avedon:     https://erickimphotography.com/blog/2014/09/26/5-lessons-richard-avedon-taught-street-photography/

I know, this should be shares on The History & Philosophy of Photography discussion.

[dcstep]

18 hours ago, pavel_l. said:

Thank you for the second link, it lead to discovery this invaluable and refreshing 5 lessons of Richard Avedon:     https://erickimphotography.com/blog/2014/09/26/5-lessons-richard-avedon-taught-street-photography/

I know, this should be shares on The History & Philosophy of Photography discussion.

Thanks for those links Pavel. I particularly enjoyed the interview with Charlie Rose.