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Vignetting with Hasselblad 60mm Distagon CF on 501cm body


ray .

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I can post examples later, but on each shot of a roll of Tri-x I tested there is consistent or identical vignetting on all 4 corners shot with the ex condition Hasselblad 60mm f/3.5 Distagon CF I recently received. I’ve used one of these lenses before that had zero vignetting on any photo. The exposures were generally in the f/4 to f/9.5 range, none wide open, but that shouldn’t matter anyway with this lens.

The lens has a small mark on both front and back elements toward the center, I wouldn’t think would affect anything, but maybe? 
I used the 60/80 hood, which is the kind of hood I used before with the other 60. Any ideas? Could it be caused by anything other than the lens? 
 

Thanks…

Edited by ray .
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  • ray . changed the title to Vignetting with Hasselblad 60mm Distagon CF on 501cm body

I will try removing the hood, but here are a couple samples from the roll showing the vignetting. 

In the 1st photo there was more available light; in the 2nd sunlight was dimming, so I no doubt opened the lens a little more with a slower shutter speed. This tells me maybe it's the lens, not a hood obstruction?  

1.jpg

4.jpg

Edited by ray .
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The hood is the FIRST suggestion but you also need to make sure that there is no filter on the front of the lens since you say that you used the same hood on another of the same lens.  Even at that, you need to make sure that both of those lenses were of the same vintage since small changes happen all of the time.

You MAY find that you can see this through the viewfinder if you stop the lens down or that it might disappear as you open the aperture.

Edited by ed_farmer
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So today I started a roll and made one shot with the hood on, then continued on shooting with no hood. Switched off the to SWC/M body I was testing also, so the two cameras shared rolls of both Tri-X and Portra….

I'll report back in about a week with the results.

Edited by ray .
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Initially, I also agreed this vignetting is most likely hood and/or filter related.  Then this morning, I "viewfinder tested" the various possibilities with my own 60mm CB Distagon on my 553 ELX (same gliding mirror design as 501cm). Aimed at a white garage wall in full sunlight, I see no darkened corners in the VF using any combination of my 60mm with or without a filter, with the CF 38-60 hood or CF 60-80 hood alone, or either hood combined with a filter. I don't recall encountering any vignetting when I previously owned the older type C version, but that lens was always used with recessed drop-in series filters and the shallow round 38/50/60 type C hood.

Perhaps the vignetting is too subtle to be seen in the VF, or the VF crops just enough to conceal it. Or, the lens in question might have a sneaky mechanical issue in the shutter/diaphragm action that causes it. The pending results of OP's latest on-film test exposures should help to identify the culprit.

Edited by orsetto
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Full open at f/3.5, then 5.6, 11, and 16. 

It occurs to me an acute matte screen wasn't an ideal platform for this VF eyeball test, so I'm gonna hunt down my old plain ground glass screen and try it again.  Tho its just casual cross reference for OP, on-film results with his specific lens example is what matters. I've never personally experienced such vignetting on film with my current 60mm Distagon CB, or my previous CF and C versions.

Edited by orsetto
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Just repeated the viewfinder test, this time with the old ground glass focus screen which is more accurate and realistic in bright daylight than the fussier acute matte I usually have installed. Same results: with my 60mm CB I don't see any appreciable vignetting in the corners wide open or stopped down, regardless of filter + hood combination. You must use the WLF for full corner coverage (the prism finder proved inadequate for this type of evaluation, as its round masked viewing corners completely crop out the area subject to vignetting).

Once OP gets his film processed, we'll know for certain if it was a hood issue for his particular lens example. If the vignetting remained the same for all test frames with and without hood/filter, I'd move on to investigating potential mechanical vignetting in the lens or camera body.

 

Hass 60mm Eval Kit.jpg

Edited by orsetto
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Say everyone, sorry for the slow response here, but it apparently was the 60/80 hood causing the vignetting. I ended up shooting a roll of Portra to get it back next day, since my previous b&w test roll got lost in the mail on the way to the lab across country.   

First shot on the new test roll was with the hood on, taking a photo of the front of my white garage with overcast sky above, then repeating the shot with the hood off. I can post both of those if someone wants to see the comparison for some reason, but here's one of the shots in the roll that were shot with hood off, showing clean corners and no vignetting…  I am a little interested in the glare off the street sign, thinking it's probably normal for this lens, but I don't recall seeing it in the ground glass, maybe because I was in a hurry to get to the local lab before they closed.

I'll take Arthur's advice and look for a 38-60 hood, as I can use it for my new used SWC/M as well……. I'll check back to see if there is any further discussion or questions. Thanks for all the responses!

2023-06-06-0014.jpg

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Oh, here's one more mystery: I was also testing the SWC/M on the same roll and shot the same building with that, and also with the 60mm on the 501cm. On these 2 frames only, you see a slight magenta fringe along the bottom of the frame. It's not on the building. The top shot (SWC/M) was frame 7 on the roll, the one below (60mm) was frame 10. None of the other frames had the fringe. I haven't used that lab before, and also the Portra expired 2013 but has been in the freezer.  🤔

2023-06-06-0008.jpg

2023-06-06-0013.jpg

Edited by ray .
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The magenta strip looks like a scanning artifact, was the film cut along those frame lines?

Edited by tom_chow
"Manfred, there is a design problem with that camera...every time you drop it that pin breaks"
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Glad to hear it turned out to be a simple hood incompatibility as predicted, and nothing more serious. Hasselblad purists may clutch their pearls at the mere suggestion Hasselblad could "make a mistake" like marketing the CF 80mm hood as compatible with the CF 60mm lens, but perhaps some 60mm Distagon lenses have no vignetting issue with the 80/60 hood while others such as yours do: likely caused by minor internal build differences between lens batches. Point of interest, Hasselblad offered only the shallower round 38-50-60 hood for the earlier C-barreled 60mm Distagon. Tho that might have been more of a practical matter, since the 38, 50 and 60 C lenses all shared the same screw-in Series 8 hood/filter mount while the 80 C lens used the B50 bayonet mount.

When shopping for the shallow hood for the 38/50/60 CF lens, you may run up against shifting market trends. The genuine Hasselblad 38-60 hood has little or no availability during periods of high demand, when you either can't find one or asking prices are a bit steep for such a simple piece of plastic. You may want to consider the much cheaper and more available generic knockoff hood, which is a pretty faithful copy of the genuine Hasselblad. See comparison pics of my two hoods below: Chinese knockoff on the left, genuine Hasselblad on the right. Only detectable differences are the copy is just very slightly thicker and generically branded  "For Haselblad", while the genuine 'blad hood has the usual Hasselblad trademarked logo and "Sweden" printed on it along with "38-60".

The reflection on the street sign looks like just a faithful image of the bright sun shining off it, not an artifact created by the lens. Easy to overlook in the viewfinder while composing. The 60mm is among the best lenses Zeiss ever designed for Hasselblad, you're unlikely to encounter any significant optical issues with it.

 

Hass 38_60 Hoods OEM vs Chinese SM.jpg

Edited by orsetto
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Tom, yes in fact the cut was close to that edge on both frames with the magenta artifact, so you’re probably right.

I use a Nikon 800 ED scanner with glass holder and have never noticed that issue before. Maybe I should be using a mask but I’ve never looked into how they work.

Thanks orsetto for the hood info and photos. Looks like maybe the best bet is ordering a brand new generic hood straight from China? Looks as if at least one eBay seller of those is reputable. Otherwise relatively affordable ones are used.

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8 hours ago, ray . said:

Tom, yes in fact the cut was close to that edge on both frames with the magenta artifact, so you’re probably right.

I use a Nikon 800 ED scanner with glass holder and have never noticed that issue before. Maybe I should be using a mask but I’ve never looked into how they work.

<snip>

Just use the end of the film carrier to mask the cut end of the film so no light hits the cut edge. Light hitting that edge travels down into the film like a light pipe, and causes the magenta contamination.

"Manfred, there is a design problem with that camera...every time you drop it that pin breaks"
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The medium format carriers for the Nikon 8000/9000 scanners top many an owner's list of irritating design flaws (running a close second to the self-destructing Firewire circuit board). The trays are a half-baked concept that work consistently well for some, consistently troublesome for others, and intermittently maddening for most of us. The goofy mask system with stick-um frame border strips is beyond frustrating: sometimes you don't need any of the mask accessories, sometimes just the mask, sometimes just the strips, sometimes everything.

If the size of your 120 film strip allows, you can fiddle with positioning within the carrier (as tom_chow recommended above) to minimize light spill contamination. But if that isn't possible or doesn't work well enough, you'll need to play with the masks and/or frame border strips. Unfortunately these masking accessories are often missing when these scanners are resold second hand, so you may not have gotten them with your 869G glass tray (the rotating 869GR requires them to function at all). Replacement sets periodically turn up on eBay, or you could cut a piece of black unexposed film or construction paper to mask out any large gaps in the tray aperture at either side of your film strip.

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If I'm remembering correctly I got one of the last 9000ED scanners Nikon sold new, then sold it along with my medium format cameras about 10 years ago, only to re-purchase a 501cm and 80 Planar 4 years ago. Selling the scanner was as much a mistake as the cameras, since it was near new. The 8000ED I have now I got from a guy who services them. I've never had any real problems with them or the Nikon film scanners I have for 35mm. It's a slow process, but I enjoy scanning- kind of like being in the darkroom watching a print emerge, just without the fumes… Knock on wood this scanner keeps running as I gear up to shoot and give it a little more exercise than it's had for a few years.

Thanks again

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