New Z8 questions

[John Di Leo]

As stated elsewhere, I will (soon???) be the happy owner of a new Z8. I am coming from the d810.

1) I am considering which CFExpress B card to buy and how big it should be. My shooting is almost only stills, rare video. I shoot in RAW. On my d810 such files are about 42-44mb each.

Since the guts of the z8 is the same as the z9, shooting RAW, how big are the files from the z9?

For my needs on the d810 a 32gb card has been sufficient, but I will be in uncharted territory with the Z8.

Any advice appreciated and to include brand of card. I have been lucky with SanDisk and Lexar over the years.

2) the one thing I will miss from the d810 is the pop up flash. I use it only when necessary for fill in and it has always been sufficient. Would a SB-300 be a suitable fill in for the pop up flash?

Thanks

[Bill J Boyd]

John, I have a Z9 and shoot only wildlife still images in RAW.  I have a 128GB CFExpress card (SanDisk Extreme Pro).  I rarely fill a single card up, but when I do I think I have put ~2,100 raw files on card.  Not sure of the image size..  Hope this helps....

[ShunCheung]

For the Z9, I typically shoot HE* RAW files (i.e. high efficiency). HE* is lossy compression but reduces the NEF files to around 30MB each. There is also HE without the asterisk, which uses stronger compression, trading off some more quality for smaller sizes. If you choose lossless compressed, the RAW/NEF files are around 60 to 62MB each. Hence HE* cuts the file sizes roughly by half. Uncompressed RAW is not an option on the Z9, and presumably also not an option on the Z8.

As far as I know, there is no 32G CFexpress Type B cards. The smallest capacity is 64G from what I have seen. I would highly recommend getting one ProGrade Cobalt or Delkin Black card:

• https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1701390-REG/prograde_digital_pgcfx165gcpbh_165gb_cfexpress_2_0_type.html
• https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1702402-REG/delkin_devices_dcfxbblk150_150gb_black_cfexpress_type.html

Those two types have guarantee minimum write speed. Both brands have lower-grade cards, e.g. ProGrade Gold and Delkin Power.

Those cards are expensive, and buy the minimum to get yourself started. There are frequently very deep discounts on those cards, like 40% off.

Please make sure that you get CFexpress Type B cards. Type A is physically much smaller and only Sony uses them. Type A is also far more expensive on a per G basis. Or you can always get by with SD cards for the time being.

[John Di Leo]

Ah, thank you, Bill and Shun. That is exactly the info I need. I am willing to sacrifice a bit of write speed for economy. I do not shoot wildlife or sports, so I am often only shooting 3 or 4 shots of the same subject. When I am shooting street, it is even less. When I am on my busiest shoots it is less than 400 images.

I was thinking of one the 128gb cards. Many are on discount now for about $120. That will be plenty enough real estate.

 I will look at the suggested cards though I see good reports on the sanDisk ExtremePro.

Thanks again.

[joseph_smith3]

John, I use a Z9. I have two CFE cards, one 256 GB and one 128 GB. The largest is in card slot one; the smaller in card slot two. Card slots are set to Overflow. I started with the 128 GB card, but once I exceeded its capacity during a shoot, I got a larger card. I do shoot nature and birds and do use Continuous all the time and shoot in bursts. 

In the Z8, the second card slot is SD. If you shoot in a mode where both cards are used, the write speed defaults to the slowest card, the SD card. This may not impact you,  but I wanted you to know it.  If you need the second card to duplicate the images, copy them to card two at the end of the shoot. 

If I were to own a Z8, I would want to make sure that my CFE card was large enough that I would never "need" the second SD card. How large depends on how much you shoot in a days shooting and if you use single shot or continuous or low or high frames per sec.  

 

[John Di Leo]

@ShunCheung

I looked at the cards you mention. The 75gb Delkin Black at 119 caught my eye. Are there any speed issues with these with lower capacities? I have seen some reports/reviews of the sanDisk, I think, that said the 64 was much slower than the 128 and because of that it was not recommended? Does that apply to the delkin Black?

@joseph_smith3

thanks Joseph for that info, yes it is useful. I usually shoot single, though sometimes a slow burst of 3 or 4. I am shooting people, often street portraits. I shoot a lot of Mardi Gras stuff and the subjects will stop and pose, so 30-120 shots a second is just not necessary.

Quote

I would want to make sure that my CFE card was large enough that I would never "need" the second SD card.

agree, and to accomplish that I am pretty sure 128 would accomplish that, and likely the 75 also

[John Di Leo]

I came across this in the Q&A section at B&H

The main difference between the Delkin Devices 75GB BLACK CFexpress Type B Memory Card BH #DEDCFXBBLK75 and the Delkin Devices 128GB POWER CFexpress Type B Memory Card BH #DECFE128GB is the firmware, speed, and the size of the card. 75GB BLACK CFexpress Type B Memory Card from Delkin Devices features a storage capacity of 75GB and is designed for professional photographers, videographers, and high-end cinematic hosts. It is well-suited for raw and continuous-burst photography, as well as 8K, 6K, and 4K video at high bitrates and frame rates. Thanks to a PCIe 3.0 interface, you'll be able to achieve maximum read speeds of up to 1725 MB/s and minimum write speeds of at least 1240 MB/s. Whereas, the the 128GB POWER CFexpress Type B Memory Card from Delkin Devices provides read speeds of up to 1730 MB/s and write speeds of up to 1540 MB/s, making it suitable for professional photographers and videographers. Designed to excel in high-end cinematic hosts, this card can capture 5.9K, DCI 4K, and Full HD video at standard and high frame rates of up to 180 fps, plus continuous shooting raw bursts of up to 200 still images.

and

 

Good day! They are very different, built with different firmware, so they have different speeds and capacities. the 75GB has a sustained write speed of about 1240MB/s, the 128GB has a sustained write speed of about 1710MB/s. Both are fully compatible with all CFexpress Type B hosts, but the 75GB will fill up very quickly when used for high resolution video. Thank you!

Answered by Representative May 9, 2022

 

Looks like either would be fine for my purposes?

[ShunCheung]

I recommend ProGrade Cobalt and Delkin Black because they both have a specified minimum, sustainable write speed. The maximum or average write speed is kind of meaningless. Those two also do not have a tendency to overheat. It looks like John is not planning to push the card very hard, anyway. AngleBird cards are much more affordable. Some swear by them, but I have seen enough problem reports. Some of them have a chipped plastic housing, leaving plastic bits in the card slot, and some are slightly off spec and are difficult to be pull from the slot ....

Just keep in mind that small-capacity cards tend to be more expensive on a per-G basis. And again, there are occasional very deep discounts. For example, the 325G Delkin Black had a couple of times gone from the usual $425 to $200 for short periods in the last 6 months, i.e. over 50% off. Memory cards are never investments. With a lot of competition, I expect prices to keep on coming down.

Since using mirrorless, I am now shooting a lot more video. My next card will have to be 1TB or higher to accommodate 8K video. A 75G cards is going to be fairly useless for video. But at this point, I would say just buy one card to get started. Find out your usage pattern and then add more cards as one sees fit.

 

[mike_halliwell]

18 hours ago, John Di Leo said:

My shooting is almost only stills, rare video

 

9 hours ago, ShunCheung said:

John is not planning to push the card very hard

I'd see just how good or otherwise your best SD cards are first. Agreed, you won't have 2 slots as back-up, but even a slow, cheap CFx maybe more than good enough for now.

CFx is only going to get cheaper.

[ShunCheung]

Of course one can only use the SD slot on a Z8, or Z6ii/Z7ii, but I would at least get one CFx Type B card just to get some experience with it and also check out that slot on your new camera. You don't want to wait a year to discover that slot has never worked and the warranty has expired. Something like that almost happened to me with my then new D750 in 2015. The jack for the GPS (Nikon GP-1) didn't work out of the box, but it was some 4, 5 months later that I plugged in my GP-1 in for the first time. In these days I don't use SD cards much for photography any more. There is one sitting in my Z6ii for backups.

Prior to my Z6, I didn't capture much video either, but mirrorless completely changed my photography. Now I almost spend more time capturing and edition video. Video editing is very time consuming.

Concerning CFx Type B cards, there are several issues to watch out for:

1. Card write speed
2. Overheat issues
3. Bad casing: the plastic case can chip, or the size is slight off so that it is difficult to insert and extract. I had that issue with my very first ProGrade card; it was a Gold type. That card was slightly warped so that I had to use a pair of small pliers to pull that out from my Z6.
4. Of course there is the storage capacity issue

[joseph_smith3]

You may need a new card reader too for the CF Express Type B cards. The download speed to your computer may be impacted by the port you are using on your computer nd the cable that comes with the card reader, I am using a Sony card reader with a USB-C cable that attaches to the USB-C port on my computer. 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1532007-REG/sony_mrwg1_t1_cfe_b_xqd_card_reader.html/overview?ap=y&smp=ba_f1_ll&srsltid=AR57-fCDw-6YhDxKtFmINe_bo6q_WW0uZMQ_tsocrrpYYs5aH11HlqiucdI

Here is a link to another popular card reader

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1548490-REG/prograde_digital_pgrwcfxsdana_digital_cfxb_sdxc_sdhc_usb_3_1.html/overview

[ShunCheung]

38 minutes ago, joseph_smith3 said:

You may need a new card reader too for the CF Express Type B cards. The download speed to your computer may be impacted by the port you are using on your computer nd the cable that comes with the card reader, I am using a Sony card reader with a USB-C cable that attaches to the USB-C port on my computer. 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1532007-REG/sony_mrwg1_t1_cfe_b_xqd_card_reader.html/overview?ap=y&smp=ba_f1_ll&srsltid=AR57-fCDw-6YhDxKtFmINe_bo6q_WW0uZMQ_tsocrrpYYs5aH11HlqiucdI

Here is a link to another popular card reader

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1548490-REG/prograde_digital_pgrwcfxsdana_digital_cfxb_sdxc_sdhc_usb_3_1.html/overview

I have the first CFx B card-reader Joseph linked to, i.e. the Sony MRW-G1. It is pricy at $100, but it is one of the few readers that is compatible with both the old XQD cards and the current CFexpress Type B. The two types of cards have exactly the same size physically so that they can both fit the same slot, but the reader firmware needs to be compatible with both. That is a great reader for me since I have a bunch of both types of cards. Since the OP John is coming from a D810, not something with an XQD slot such as D850, D500, etc., not sure compatibility with XQD is necessary in this case. If not, the OP may be better off getting a dual CFx B + SD reader, e.g. in the second link.

[ShunCheung]

B&H is running that 325G Delkin Black @ $200 deal again, as they did on March 28. It is good through the end of today, May 18, 2023 at midnight Eastern:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1756804-REG/delkin_devices_dcfxbblk325_sp_325gb_black_cfexpress_type.html

For whatever, only the 325G capacity card is having this kind of discounts.

[John Di Leo]

Just an update. I received notice from B&H that my Z8 shipped!!! woo hoo; it will be here 5/30.

I bought and received theDelkin Devices 150GB BLACK CFexpress Type B Memory Card

along with a 14tb external hard drive, as my backup drives were getting tight...OWC Mercury Elite Pro

As would happen the format button on my d810, the one invaded by chocolate icing, has started working again. The d810, as was my old d700, was built like a tank and the chocolate episode was transient.

Thanks for all the advice. Already thinking about what lens(es) to maybe get for Christmas with my eye on the 26( to replace[?] my much loved 20/2.8/AiS ) or the 105 micro. The 105 would do double duty replacing my venerable 55/3.5/AiS and my 85/1.8/D. That 55 has been a great performer and would not be traded, but the 85 lacking AF compatibility would not be very useful for me at all. The 105 would do what the 85 does and more.

Two concerns re the 26: Would I miss the extra wide coverage of the 20 ( think I might) and, can the 26 be set at F8 and turn off AF? I use my 20 for interiors, but also street where I just put it on F8 or 11, set my focus distance for about 5,6 feet and I get a very wide latitude for DOF. That works great for quick shots. AF would be a hindrance as shooting from the hip or chest might focus on something that would ruin what I was trying to get. Example, in the attached shot, I shot it from pocket level, spur of the moment crossing the street. If it was AF it might have focused on the far buildings, and missed the shot.

I'm sure AF can be turned off, but as I write this it sounds like I am talking myself out of the 26.

Thanks again.

 

Edited May 26, 2023 by John Di Leo

[ShunCheung]

One thing to keep in mind about pancake, muffin type small lenses is that they will probably never be optically great lenses for mirrorless, e.g. with the S designation. For digital sensors, the light needs to hit the sensor more in a perpendicular angle. Hence wide-angle lenses need to be telecentric and those lenses tend to be long, e.g the Z 20mm/f1.8 S is very long. I have seen the 26mm/f2.8 and it is indeed compact, and it has a metal lens mount unlike the 40mm/f2 and 28mm/f2.8, which have plastic mounts. Nikon USA prices the 26mm/f2.8 to $500. To me, that is very high to a lens that is optically mediocre, but it is indeed very compact and can be super convenient.

I am waiting for future sales, discount.

[Niels - NHSN]

Just use your 20/2.8. The z6ii sensor allows for capture from even the widest rangefinder lenses in good quality - those modern BSI slim stacked sensors are very capable with adapted lenses. I can’t imagine that wouldn’t be the case w the Z8 as well.

I own the 26mm, it is an excellent performing lens but its main selling point being its size.

[John Di Leo]

Understand...As I research it more, the 105 Z seems to be the one and I'll continue with my 20/2.8. It is the size of the 26 that appealed, but not at the cost of away from center IQ

Thanks.

The Z is coming tomorrow.
 

[ShunCheung]

John, I don't know whether you have prior Nikon bodies that use the EN-EL15 batteries. My D7100 from 2010 was the first one using the EN-EL15, followed by the 2011 Nikon 1 V1 and then the D800, D600 .... There are already reports that some third-party EN-EL15 clones are not compatible with the Z8. If you have genuine Nikon batteries, there shouldn't be any issue, although the non-C variations will probably not last as long.

[mike_halliwell]

44 minutes ago, ShunCheung said:

some third-party EN-EL15 clones are not compatible

Give it a week or two for decoded batts for the Z8... 👍

[Dieter Schaefer]

On 5/26/2023 at 2:52 PM, John Di Leo said:

but also street where I just put it on F8 or 11, set my focus distance for about 5,6 feet and I get a very wide latitude for DOF. That works great for quick shots. AF would be a hindrance as shooting from the hip or chest might focus on something that would ruin what I was trying to get. Example, in the attached shot, I shot it from pocket level, spur of the moment crossing the street. If it was AF it might have focused on the far buildings, and missed the shot.

Subject and eye detection of the Z8 would much more likely locked straight onto the face/eye and given you an in-focus shot.

On 5/26/2023 at 2:52 PM, John Di Leo said:

I'm sure AF can be turned off, but as I write this it sounds like I am talking myself out of the 26.

Not sure why you would want to - use the advanced capabilities of the Z8.

Edited May 29, 2023 by Dieter Schaefer

[ShunCheung]

24 minutes ago, mike_halliwell said:

Give it a week or two for decoded batts for the Z8... 👍

The problem is that those third parties are not going to fix your old batteries with some firmware upgrade. For the Z8, you need to buy new batteries.

[mike_halliwell]

27 minutes ago, ShunCheung said:

For the Z8, you need to buy new batteries.

The D500 was like this... but the grip allowed clones. Be interesting how this goes...?

[John Di Leo]

On 5/29/2023 at 12:04 PM, ShunCheung said:

John, I don't know whether you have prior Nikon bodies that use the EN-EL15 batteries.

My d810 uses the EN-EL15 original, so I have the original OEM as well as a third party Bower, that is dying. My main concern was could I use my original Nikon EN-EL15 as a backup just in case.

the camera is supposed to come today. I will put in a fully charged OEM Nikon En-El15 and see what the display shows compared to the new En-EL15c...and report

On 5/29/2023 at 1:02 PM, Dieter Schaefer said:

Not sure why you would want to - use the advanced capabilities of the Z8.

Because many times I am not actually looking at the VF or LCD, I am literally shooting from the hip or the chest hoping to catch what I see, then composing in post. Using a zone focusing technique would help avoid focusing on something I don't want to.

[John Di Leo]

Finally FedEx delivered it after 6pm. Battery was not charged, so I charged it.

I only compared the remaining frames number in the display. With both the EN-EL15c and the EN-EL15 fully charged the remaining frames in the display were the same. They were both "4.3k" set at RAW (only) and on a Delkin black 150gb card.

It's possible I am reading this incorrectly, but I am looking at the same remaining shots space as on my D810, and they read the same despite the battery. I suppose the older battery may run down faster?

First impressions, just handling it are positive. It has nice heft and fits my hand very similarly to the d810, and that's a good thing. I like the traditional Nikon feel, but, to me, the z6 and z7 just felt too small. It is very nicely finished and has a sleekness to it.

[ShunCheung]

13 minutes ago, John Di Leo said:

I only compared the remaining frames number in the display. With both the EN-EL15c and the EN-EL15 fully charged the remaining frames in the display were the same. They were both "4.3k" set at RAW (only) and on a Delkin black 150gb card.

It's possible I am reading this incorrectly, but I am looking at the same remaining shots space as on my D810, and they read the same despite the battery. I suppose the older battery may run down faster?

The remaining frame count is about how much memory card space you have left. That has nothing to do with remaining battery power.

Since the D810 is 36MP while the Z8 is 45MP, are you using uncompressed or lossless on the D810 and HE* or something on the Z8?