jose_angel Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 (edited) Hello everyone. To make a long story short, I will say that I am the unlucky owner of a MacBook Pro 15" with the "orange screen" disease... (and here, too). I wanted to have the best computer money can buy for image editing (the top model of end 2018), but a few weeks after the warranty expired, my € 4,000+ laptop turned out useless for the task. I actually babied the MBP, but faulty products don't care about that. Apple have just ignored the problem. Two months ago I also had to send my top iPhone for repair. My decades-long trust with Apple is at its worst. Sincerely, I feel like I'm stupid. So, I'm debating what to do: 1. Go on with the stupidity and send the MBP to change the screen (I guess more than 700€); probably in two years I will have another "orange juice screen". 2. Buy a good desktop display (non Apple) and connect it to my MBP via USB-C. I really hate doing this, but it will allow me to work for the time being. Also expensive. 3. Buy a new computer... another MacBook Pro? N e v e r again such an expensive model, but a mid-level one at best. I am really worried about Apple products quality. In fact, I fear for its company orientation, current laptops negate the "advances" of previous "best ever" decisions (now there is no Touch Bar, they included a SD card reader, also a HDMI connector, etc.). I don't know if they're running around like head cut off chickens, maybe they simply take strictly profit-based decisions (world in crisis), or as some say they are actually returning to no-nonsense professional products. What do you think? Has anyone experienced "problems" with, say, 2021 or 2022 Apple laptops? Any comment is welcomed. Thanks in advance. Edited October 17, 2022 by jose_angel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemorrellNL Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 Wow, this really sucks! I've never used Macbooks so I can't speak from experience. my 2 cts. From what I read on other forums: - Genius Bars have looked at 'orange spot' hardware and found it to be OK; they recommended a $700+ screen replacement - Some users who did spend $700+ on a screen replacement found tthat the 'orange spots' reappeared, in one case after 6 months; the warranty on the replacement screen seems to be 90 days Your Macbook is 4 years old. If - apart from the screen - it's still fit for your purposes, I think I'd go for a portable monitor. See PC Mag's picks. I'm sure if you google you can find a portable monitor that suits your size, quality and price requirements. All are cheaper than a Macbook screen replacement. Unless you want touch screen and/or pen functionality, you can buy a portable monitor (14"-17") for about 50% of the screen replacement price or less. Not ideal, but at least you avoid 1) the high cost of screen replacement and b) the futire risk of 'orange spots' reappearing. A new Laptop/Desktop? Always an option but personally I think I'd prefer to do that if and when you experience limitations from other Macbook components (SSD/disk, RAM, etc.). FWIW my Laptop screen got damaged more than 2 years ago. Then the keyboard went too. The 'innards' of the Laptop worked fine so I used an external monitor and keyboard during this period. My 'Laptop' essentially became a 'Desktop'. I recently (finally) bought a new Laptop. Mainly to save space in my small appartment. And portability is sometimes important. Good luck in deciding! Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodeo_joe1 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 (edited) What software do you want to run? Because 4 grand is a heck of a lot of money to blow on any laptop - a laptop that can never have the power or expandability of even a modest desktop system. My DIY assembled Ryzen 7 (16 thread/4GHz) desktop PC apparently benchmarks about the same as an Apple M1 processor. Total assembly cost was under £600 with 32GB of 3200MHz ram, 1TB NVME/M2 disk, and a 6TB HDD. Another 100 quid would expand the RAM to 64GB, but quite honestly it probably wouldn't ever be needed. It runs stuff like Sony's 16 frame pixel-shift merge in a few seconds. Topaz Gigapixel AI is still quite slow, but I don't think Topaz have optimised that program for multi-threaded processors. Now, both Intel and AMD are introducing even faster processors - at a cost - but even their cheaper last generation CPUs will blow away anything that Apple had 4 years ago. Of course a decent monitor will set you back over a grand, but even so it still runs nowhere near a total of 4K. Edited October 17, 2022 by rodeo_joe1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jose_angel Posted October 17, 2022 Author Share Posted October 17, 2022 (edited) Well, I considered it, but option #1 is ruled out. Just returned from Apple service, the cost of the repair (screen replacement) is €780. The repair guarantee is three months, and they say that the screen will be the same as the one installed. I asked what if the problem reappears, no answer. They just looked at me with their mouths closed. So I don't want to pay for another new faulty computer. Mike, I think the portable display one could be the wise option. The computer is still powerful enough for the task. I hate to have it in two parts, but that's life. Rodeo, yes, Apple could be very expensive. So I expect a premium service, not a "mouth closed" kind of answer. My son is going your way, I'm not a computer expert... I hope he can help me soon to build my next computer 🙂 Edited October 17, 2022 by jose_angel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodeo_joe1 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 (edited) 30 minutes ago, marc epstein said: I am kinda in the same boat. A lot of the new imaging editing software programs has surpassed my PCs ability to use them. Topazs and others are good examples. After a trial of Topaz's Video Enhance AI taking about 10 hours on my quite nimble new(ish) PC build - it appears that that particular piece of software doesn't care a jot about how many CPU cores you have or how many threads it can run. It just uses the GPU in your video card to do the grunt work. And if you haven't got a powerful and overpriced 'gaming' video card - well tough luck! My CPU cores idled along at about 15% usage, while my poor old video card sweated away for 10 painfully slow hours, processing at 3 frames per second. I haven't tested Gigapixel's CPU utilisation yet, but I strongly suspect it's going to be grossly under-employed. In short, if you're a fan of Topaz AI software, upgrade your video card, rather than your CPU, RAM or HDD. Having said that, conventional filters in Photoshop and the like are applied in the blink of an eye. Edited October 17, 2022 by rodeo_joe1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanKlein Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 If you're so turned off against Apple, why not give a Windows machine a chance. I use a Dell but there are many good desttop manufacturers at reasonable prices for very powerful machines with lots of storage and memory. Then buy a NEC calibratable monitor with puck. Mine is 7 years old an still going great. These companies also make great laptops. Once burned; twice foolish. 3 Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/albums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans_waterlander Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 A word of caution: NEC is exiting the desktop monitor market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 First, did you attempt to reset the NVRAM, PRAM, and SMC? Might be worth a try. Or logging into another account (you may need to make one) to see if this screen issue resumes? I'd simply get a good, external display and drive the MacBook from that (which is what I have done for years). My MBP drives the superb SpectraView PA271Q, I keep the lid closed (no need for that display). Bigger, better and far more color managed than the Laptop display. 2 Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, frans_waterlander said: A word of caution: NEC is exiting the desktop monitor market. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."-Carl Sagan NEC is now part of Sharp. https://www.sharpnecdisplays.us https://www.sharpnecdisplays.us/colorcritical Lets see some evidence that Sharp is exiting the desktop 'monitor' market please. Edited October 17, 2022 by digitaldog 1 Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Smith Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 I seem to be getting the "best" Dell XPS desktop with the max RAM that is permissible without being shafted (i.e no $600 RAM upgrades). They usually last me 10 years, with some kind of RAM or SSD/HD upgrade. Costs <$2000. Apple are known to be premium. I agree with Rodeo, $4000 is silly money IMHO. 1 Robin Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrochemist Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 (edited) I would NEVER go for the best computer money can buy. If you go for one that is merely good (best 2 years ago?) you'll save an absolute fortune, and would be able to upgrade twice as often should you want to (probably not needed). My home computer is actually a 4GB Raspberry Pi 4 which runs a version of Linux & does most of what I need, for under £200 (excluding external drives, but including other peripherals). The 10+ year old laptop I have is now a bit slow but will run any unusual software I want to play with. Edited October 17, 2022 by petrochemist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jose_angel Posted October 17, 2022 Author Share Posted October 17, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, petrochemist said: I would NEVER go for the best computer money can buy. Wise words. I learnt the lesson. I'm using Apple for decades, still keep a +15 years old MBP laptop and other Apple vintage devices as well that (at least "physically") work at 100%. So lucky. Things have changed... 😕 Edited October 17, 2022 by jose_angel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jose_angel Posted October 17, 2022 Author Share Posted October 17, 2022 2 hours ago, digitaldog said: First, did you attempt to reset the NVRAM, PRAM, and SMC? Might be worth a try. Or logging into another account (you may need to make one) to see if this screen issue resumes? I'd simply get a good, external display and drive the MacBook from that (which is what I have done for years). My MBP drives the superb SpectraView PA271Q, I keep the lid closed (no need for that display). Bigger, better and far more color managed than the Laptop display. Looks like it is a known issue; a poorly designed screen or so. No fix other that display replacement. The replacement screen very likely will show the same failure, sooner or later. Years ago I used to use a separate screen and keyboard to work more comfortably with a 13" MBP. I wanted to avoid it, but I see is the best option. Thanks for the help. I have now an idea of how to manage my computer policy in the future... 😄 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jose_angel Posted October 17, 2022 Author Share Posted October 17, 2022 7 hours ago, rodeo_joe1 said: What software do you want to run? I`m currently using Affinity Photo. Runs very fast on my computer. I used to use Photoshop and others. Not willing to pay the fee. Affinity is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddler4 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 Quote Lets see some evidence that Sharp is existing the desktop 'monitor' market please. I don't see evidence that they are exiting the market, but I do see evidence that they are reducing their wide-gamut offerings, at least a bit. I see three wide gamut 24" monitors (PA/Spectraview series), but I don't see any 27", like my beloved PA271Q. It's confusing to me because they now classify many monitors that cover only the sRGB gamut as "color critical". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 1 hour ago, paddler4 said: I don't see evidence that they are exiting the market, but I do see evidence that they are reducing their wide-gamut offerings, at least a bit. Exactly, there is no evidence but a bit of typical FUD. 😜 You can still purchase the products too: https://bluesquare.digital/27-color-critical-desktop-display-with-spectraview-engine.html https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/used/1519332?gclid=CjwKCAjw-rOaBhA9EiwAUkLV4kz_fbjbFvYGlxHRNyB-_ePnjQwrg_OSAF4vtmWPC16wx_Qu7rhOQxoCRTEQAvD_BwE https://www.adorama.com/ncpa311dbk.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw-rOaBhA9EiwAUkLV4gmQ1NU8m1jEX_5FR7V4Dkfp2XWQnz9WkPhBohnPZ6pFsJ5Tu00r6RoCEbgQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&utm_source=adl-gbase-p 1 Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Ingold Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 If you need a computer for editing, is a laptop the best choice? I use laptops strictly for mobile work, mainly recording and internet access, not editing. My 27" iMac died this summer, leaving me little choice but to replace it. Rather than like-for-like, I decided to go with a Mac Studio M1 Max, and separate monitor (Mac Studio). If the OP's monitor needs replacing, the Apple Studio Monitor connects via Thunderbolt, and hence with any laptop new enough to have that interface. The combination was a bit of a financial jolt, but the Mac Studio is more powerful than a laptop, and considerably cheaper. It's comparable to replacing camera bodies while keeping all the old lenses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jose_angel Posted October 18, 2022 Author Share Posted October 18, 2022 (edited) I also used to have an iMac for photos and small MacBooks for work. The reality is that I mixed everything computable and discovered that a computer for everything was better for me. My latest experience dictates that I'm out of luck, the last two (expensive!) items I bought didn't last long beyond the warranty. This makes me rethink the question. I'm happy to buy premium if things work out. If I have to buy often, I am not willing to buy expensive. I never know if something is going to last or not; that's where trust comes in. Edited October 18, 2022 by jose_angel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemorrellNL Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 Lots of good responses to the OP's question. Worth mentioning, I think, is that when deciding whther or not to upgrade (and if so to what) it's good to have a clear idea about your needs for photo-editing. Things like: - the effort and time you want to spend editing single images vs. applying 'quick edits' to a whole series - portability/space (Laptop or Desktop) - screen quality (Laptop/Monitor) - processing power AImost all my photos are published digitally. So I never need large, super-high quality prints. I use Lightroom to select and edit more than 90% of my 'keeper' photos. I don't tend to use plugins or Photoshop unless really necessary. The basic (Topaz and other) plugins run without problem using 16B of RAM. The newer (still optional) Photoshop neural filters and Topaz "AI filters" (noise reduction and sharpening) use up a lot of processing power and seem to take forever. I've recently invested in a new Laptop (with more SSD) so everything runs that bit faster. Still, I'm very selective about applying processor-intensive filters! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Ingold Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 I bought my two MBP laptops (13" and 15") in 2017, and they're working just fine. Both have 16G of RAM and a 1 TB disk, which seems more than adequate for my A/V work flow. I've owned and used many laptops over the years, and Apple displays are by far the best. They have a wide viewing angle, without dark corners, and calibrate easily. While the MBP display can be calibrated, the brightness can vary with power levels and automatic features. Desktop displays are much more stable. Heat is the killer of electronics. My iMac ran hot, and used the cooling fan extensively. The Mac Studio remains tool to the touch, as does the Apple Studio display. My laptops get way too hot on the bottom to actually use on my lap. Go figure. I could probably build my own computer from components, but in my years using PC's, replacing and upgrading boards tended to cause more problems than I wished. While Apple computers are not amenable to swapping parts, I appreciate that their hardware and software is carefully curated. I prefer to spend my time assembling systems, not hardware, and less troubleshooting. In a nutshell, I don't build things I can buy. My time is too valuable. IMO, If you move away from Apple and OSx, Lenovo makes. the best PC systems. I keep several on hand rather than partition my Apple computers for Windows, for those obstinate manufactures who cling to that technology. Dell has a history of assembling components from diverse manufactures, I suspect the lowest bidders. They're relatively inexpensive, but at a price. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans_waterlander Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 On 10/17/2022 at 9:11 AM, digitaldog said: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."-Carl Sagan NEC is now part of Sharp. https://www.sharpnecdisplays.us https://www.sharpnecdisplays.us/colorcritical Lets see some evidence that Sharp is exiting the desktop 'monitor' market please. The evidence that NEC has exited the color-critical monitor market can be found here: https://www.sharpnecdisplays.us/discontinued/products/displays#?page=1. All the P and PA models in your "colorcritical" link are on that list. Some resellers may be able to get you one or two different left-over products, but don't hold your breath; they are special order, temporarily out-of-stock, or used. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Smith Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 I suspect the lowest bidders. They're relatively inexpensive, but at a price. Pure speculation. 1 Robin Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, frans_waterlander said: The evidence that NEC has exited the color-critical monitor market can be found here: https://www.sharpnecdisplays.us/discontinued/products/displays#?page=1. What you wrote that is WRONG in multiple ways as so often the case: “A word of caution: NEC is exiting the desktop monitor market.” Edited October 18, 2022 by digitaldog Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans_waterlander Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 23 minutes ago, digitaldog said: What you wrote that is WRONG in multiple ways as so often the case: “A word of caution: NEC is exiting the desktop monitor market.” Really? You don't believe what NEC tells us? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 Just now, frans_waterlander said: Really? You don't believe what NEC tells us? Based on year's of history I don't believe what you tell us. Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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