Guidelines can improve many photo's - what else?

[Allen Herbert]

I really think most Teachers would encourage their students to ask questions stupid or otherwise.

 

Perhaps not, back in the day of Mr. Fox.. Sort of wonder who will be the moderator on PN who defines what is a stupid question.

 

"noone said". Who is noone? and what did he say?;)

[samstevens]

Interestingly, @mikemorrell, when I first started playing the piano, I was advised to listen to opera and when I first started photographing, I was advised to look at paintings.

 

These are not exactly guidelines, but the similarity of the suggestions is noteworthy and did help deepen my relationship to the piano, opera, photography, and painting. Later, I took it upon myself to discover and play around with the musicality of the visual arts. While each medium has its unique qualities, there are shared things that can be inspiring. The ability of a singer to create the smoothest of transitions from note to note will never be matched by a piano but can certainly be aspired to, in getting the piano to sing and in replacing the soul of human breath with what piano keys, strings, lines, and pauses have to offer. The challenges in painting of imagination, perspective, color, brushstrokes, composition, layering, building all can translate into what can be done with photography as well.

 

Of course, no one was suggesting that I mimic these other mediums as much as they were offering the connections as inspiration and potential learning tools to take off from.

[inoneeye]

That was a breath of fresh air Sam!

Making the connections of which you have mentioned is very beneficial imo. For myself drawing, painting and sculpting were very rewarding and influential to pursuing photography. Also even without any music ability i found listening to it even while photographing had a strong impact. Altogether it felt (and i believe it did) that the well deepened somewhere at the source of my creativity. A great way to exercise the eye & brain.

When approached by someone beginning photography looking for insights i always mention to consider drawing first but any other creative pursuits.

[httpwww.photo.netbarry]

Really good point Sam. at 11:34. There is a reason art school curriculums for students majoring in a studio art, ie ceramics, painting, sculpture, photography etc. generally require 2D and 3D design classes part of the early steps. I think several of what became photography guidelines came out of guidelines for design, often expressed as "rules". But looking at paintings, drawings, listening to music even can certainly inform photography, and vice versa. Even though photography is generally speaking, subtractive and painting additive, simply meaning a canvas is blank and a photograph starts with something there. It's a different thought process but often ends up at the same place in composition. Edited February 3, 2022 by http://www.photo.net/barryfisher

[MrAndMrsIzzy]

Interestingly, @mikemorrell, when I first started playing the piano, I was advised to listen to opera and when I first started photographing, I was advised to look at paintings.

 

These are not exactly guidelines, but the similarity of the suggestions is noteworthy and did help deepen my relationship to the piano, opera, photography, and painting. Later, I took it upon myself to discover and play around with the musicality of the visual arts. While each medium has its unique qualities, there are shared things that can be inspiring. The ability of a singer to create the smoothest of transitions from note to note will never be matched by a piano but can certainly be aspired to, in getting the piano to sing and in replacing the soul of human breath with what piano keys, strings, lines, and pauses have to offer. The challenges in painting of imagination, perspective, color, brushstrokes, composition, layering, building all can translate into what can be done with photography. Of course, no one was suggesting that I mimic these other mediums as much as they were offering the connections as inspiration and potential learning tools to take off from.

 

That was a breath of fresh air Sam!

Making the connections of which you have mentioned is very beneficial imo. For myself drawing, painting and sculpting were very rewarding and influential to pursuing photography. Also even without any music ability i found listening to it even while photographing had a strong impact. Altogether it felt (and i believe it did) that the well deepened somewhere at the source of my creativity. A great way to exercise the eye & brain.

When approached by someone beginning photography looking for insights i always mention to consider drawing first but any other creative pursuits.

 

Amen again!!!!!

[mikemorrell]

Great point, @samstevens!

 

We can indeed learn a lot from other media. As @inoneeye and others point out, art students who at some point major in photography have a broader grounding in visual art than students at a specialized photography school'who major in 'art photography'.

 

Your point would be a very useful addition to the 'top x tips to improve your photo's' that often end with 'be creative and experiment!'

 

 

 

Interestingly, @mikemorrell, when I first started playing the piano, I was advised to listen to opera and when I first started photographing, I was advised to look at paintings.

 

These are not exactly guidelines, but the similarity of the suggestions is noteworthy and did help deepen my relationship to the piano, opera, photography, and painting. Later, I took it upon myself to discover and play around with the musicality of the visual arts. While each medium has its unique qualities, there are shared things that can be inspiring. The ability of a singer to create the smoothest of transitions from note to note will never be matched by a piano but can certainly be aspired to, in getting the piano to sing and in replacing the soul of human breath with what piano keys, strings, lines, and pauses have to offer. The challenges in painting of imagination, perspective, color, brushstrokes, composition, layering, building all can translate into what can be done with photography as well.

 

Of course, no one was suggesting that I mimic these other mediums as much as they were offering the connections as inspiration and potential learning tools to take off from.

[MrAndMrsIzzy]

Great point, @samstevens!

 

We can indeed learn a lot from other media. As @inoneeye and others point out, art students who at some point major in photography have a broader grounding in visual art than students at a specialized photography school'who major in 'art photography'.

 

Your point would be a very useful addition to the 'top x tips to improve your photo's' that often end with 'be creative and experiment!'

 

And another one!!! That makes what four! This is a great string!!!

[mikemorrell]

I'm almost tempted to do some more research (on PN and elsewhere) and publish a blog post on this point! Not for any personal fame or gain but because I truly believe that @samsteven's point is important and deserves more 'public exposure' to beginning photographers who primarily look to the internet for tips and tricks to improve.

 

Of course, @samstevens and other respondents have the first option! TBH I don't expect to have the time or energy to research and write anytime soon (the next 3-5 years ;)). But through my voluntary work, I have some good contacts with curators of a bi-annual photo festival who regularly visit other exhibitions and have good contacts with (and visit) photography departments of more than 10 European Art Schools. Each bi-annual exhibition features - alongside the work of more famous/renowned international photographers - the work of one selected photographer from each European Art School. Between bi-annual festivals, the curators visit each school to review the work of candidates and to offer advice on the proposed project/portfolio. This is part of the so-called 'International Talent Program' through which the curators help candidates develop their work.

 

It would be interesting to find out the extent to which 'cross-media' inspiration has inspired past exhibitors (both renowned and 'upcoming talent) and the extent to which 'cross-media inspiration' is actively encouraged in Art schools.

 

I'll probably have completely forgotten about this noble intention by the weekend.:(

[samstevens]

@mikemorrell, I’d be interested to hear some of your own random thoughts on how you might approach your own photography in terms of other mediums or in terms of qualities often used to describe or reference other mediums. Because I played the piano for years before taking up photography, I tend often to think in musical terms. So I do view photos in terms of rhythm, counterpoint, and such.

 

I'd love to hear how you and others think and feel and see in these sorts of terms.

 

With this photo, the title came once I was done, but as I took the picture and then worked on it, I was thinking in terms of smoothness and a lyrical quality, of easy breath work, a kind of visual bel canto.

 

legato

Edited February 3, 2022 by samstevens

[samstevens]

Addendum:

I'd love to hear how you and others think and feel and see in these sorts of terms.

I didn't mean I'd like to hear others talk in terms of music. I'd like to hear how others think of photography in terms of any other medium or in terms of qualities not necessarily regularly associated with photography.

[Ricochetrider]

I like, very much, the concept of at least taking a look (and listen) at/to other artful mediums. As a beginner photographer, one could do far worse than to educate oneself on how others -past & present, achieve their various "art". 3D design is a bonus too- as design is in everything. Not knowing The Rules might well be the most liberating thing in developing one's own photographic "eye"! IF one has that baseline understanding of The Arts, across the board, regardless of medium. But that all ties back in to "see what others have done" on the path to "doing it your way". So one guideline could be, study- informally or formally, both art and design on the journey into photography. "Study" might work for some, perhaps "absorbing it all into one's subconscious" would be more appropriate for any less inclined to study in the scholastic sense?

 

Perhaps another guideline for beginning photographers, might be "learn to feel what you wish to portray, that you may envision it also".

Once one can feel how they wish to shoot a given subject, the next step would be to also envision, inwardly, your photograph.

 

Armed with these amorphous, Metaphysical** "tools" (and some technical skills- "rules" too, eventually), maybe one can create imagery that matches their conceptualization of a shot. With time & practice, persistent drive- even a measure of sheer luck, one might also develop a consistent sense of individuality in their endeavors and end results.

 

** "of or relating to poetry especially of the early 17th century that is highly intellectual and philosophical and marked by unconventional figurative language"

thanks to Merriam Webster, from which I've copied & pasted the above

[Ricochetrider]

Next/eventually? : The Golden Spiral

 

Golden spiral - Wikipedia

 

Golden Spiral -Rule of Thirds in Art and Photography

 

The Golden Ratio Revealed in 7 Masterpieces | Art & Object

 

Images Reveal How Perfectly Ansel Adams' Photos Align With the Golden Ratio

 

IOW "mathematics, science & theory in art & photography"

Edited February 6, 2022 by Ricochetrider

[Ricochetrider]

Addendum:

 

I didn't mean I'd like to hear others talk in terms of music. I'd like to hear how others think of photography in terms of any other medium or in terms of qualities not necessarily regularly associated with photography.

 

 

I once heard an interview once with Pharrell Williams- who said that he "sees" musical notes as colors. So why not? Well, unless one is aspiring only to photography in monochrome? :D

 

Why Can Some People 'Hear' Colors?

 

Chromesthesia - Wikipedia

 

Chromesthesia or sound-to-color synesthesia is a type of synesthesia in which sound involuntarily evokes an experience of color, shape, and movement. Individuals with sound-color synesthesia are consciously aware of their synesthetic color associations/perceptions in daily life.

[Allen Herbert]

Personally ,I've had to do the photography thing on my own. Okay, I had a Dad who was a professional photographer, taking photos at Pinewood studios. Back in the day, his other photography, was giant, one piece photos for West End Cinemas. His specialty was, when others were joining segments of photographs together, his were one piece.

 

He wanted me to to join the business; but for me his photos were too formal. Neither, did I like darkroom ,and only live in the red dark light.

 

But,, he gave me a interest in photography which, I still enjoy today.

 

Hey, I'm always about a photo.

 

 

.

[Allen Herbert]

Bottom line, you can listen to, and look at everything. Take inspiration from all sorts of media.

 

But, the reality is, it has to come from yourself. Not from a thousand words, or, a thousand photos. Or, from folks who seem to have the wisdom of ages. Seem is the operative word.

 

Just you.

[inoneeye]

Tom thanks for the reference to synesthesia. I haven’t thought about that in a long time. Years ago I attempted exercises to try and unleash any latent ability I hoped I had. It wasn’t to be. During the same time period I actively pursued lucid dreaming after realizing I was dreaming myself making artworks including photos and projects that had not made it to my consciousness. That I found very rewarding because I found I had much better recall of the work as I woke. Edited February 6, 2022 by inoneeye

[samstevens]

sound involuntarily evokes an experience of color

I guess that’s why they call it the blues. [insert emoji of a sax]

[samstevens]

I guess that’s why they call it the blues.

Actually, the derivation of the label is far more fun than synesthesia ...

 

“The name of this great American music probably originated with the 17th-century English expression for the blue devils, the intense visual hallucinations that can accompany severe alcohol withdrawal.”

[Allen Herbert]

Folk doing their own thing.

 

The blues

.Let us have the feel of blues.

 

 

[Allen Herbert]

Always fascinating to me how folks fall into groups. Sort of like supporting a football team Anyone outside the group...what do you think?

 

Usually a Guru, a wordsmith, who has the word.

 

Scary or what. Just a passing thought.

 

;)

[Allen Herbert]

" severe alcohol withdrawal.” Sam.

 

I wonder why.? Underneath any....There you go, a white mans words.

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by Allen Herbert

[Allen Herbert]

You just have a think a white man has something detrimental to say.

 

"17th-century English expression for the blue devils" Sam.

 

White man thoughts....a put down.

 

17th century thought from black folk.....white devils.

Edited February 6, 2022 by Allen Herbert

[Allen Herbert]

As of July 2019, the demographic breakdown by race in the United States was as follows:3

 

Learn facts. Hispanic, Black folk are the seriously poor. Yet, drug addition, acholic abuse is...read.

 

• White: 60.1%
  
• Hispanic or Latino: 18.5%
  
• Black or African American: 13.1%
  
• Asian American: 5.9%
  
• American Indian or Alaskan Native (AIAN): 1.3%
  
• Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander (NHOPI): 0.3%
  

[Allen Herbert]

"Actually, the derivation of the label is far more fun than synesthesia " Sam

 

Really.

 

Depends who is having fun.

 

 

 

[Allen Herbert]

Blues music, and is, about the sadness of being a oppressed people due to the colour of their skin.

 

How lost and sad is humanity.