Nikon Z9 Announcement: $5500 [28 October 2021]

[conrad_hoffman]

I have already alerted my wife that I may be going mirrorless with the Z9. Please pray for me that I survive the discussions!

 

Most of us have to ask the question, "Will my wife kill me if I buy this?"

[Dieter Schaefer]

Hopefully more of such events will pop up.

For me it would be 1 day later and about 100 miles away (at least two hours each way) - I think I am going to pass on that one. This might be the first Nikon camera that I am going to rent to test out before making a purchase decision.

 

A firmware update scheduled for early next year will allow 8k60p video. I am wondering if along with that will come the upgrade to 30fps RAW. It appears to me that the camera is up to the task (at least with compressed RAW if not with lossless compressed) and I am wondering why Nikon has the restriction to JPEG only.

 

It is also interesting that the performance of CFExpress cards varies so much - I am sure glad I did not purchase any yet. IIRC, then dpreview could only do about 40 frames before the camera slowed down - likely do to the CFExpress card's insufficient write speed.

 

own video with Joe McNally

Well, he is a Nikon ambassador - so him getting a camera early is not too surprising. There's one video featuring him as part of the launch campaign.

 

Clearly Nikon is marketing the Z9 very hard.

I think that instead of those 30s teasers, Nikon would have done better to release a video featuring one of their Ambassadors every week.

 

I saw a video where it became evident that the Z9 is able to locate and track a human subject's face or eye from a much greater distance (and with much greater reliablity) which suggests that it is able to evaluate the image and PDAF data at much higher resolution for the purposes of subject tracking and AF than the earlier Z cameras (Z7 II was used in the comparison).

That's the one by Matt Granger I mentioned yesterday.

 

Of course, it would be nice to see a major firmware update to the current Z6 II and Z7 II.

I don't think a firmware upgrade can do it, to me it looks like the hardware isn't up to the task of providing better performance. Of course, I'd be happy to be proven wrong on this one.

 

can someone summarize the observations?

For what I do, the Z9 is the only Nikon mirrorless worth buying; I am glad I didn't spring for the Z7 or Z7II. Whether I will indeed purchase one depends on the hands-on reviews that are sure to surface within the next half year - and the results of my own hands-on experience with a rented one sometime next year.

[Jean-Claude]

Nikon is pricing the Z9 very aggressively, US$5500. That is a full $1000 lower than the D5, D6 and most importantly, the Sony A1, and $500 cheaper than the Canon R3.

 

Two new lenses:

• 100-400mm/f4.5-5.6 S VR, $2700, same as the initial price for the F-mount 80-400mm AF-S VR
  
• 24-120mm/f4 S, $1100, turns out to be 24-120 instead of 24-105 on the Nikon roadmaps
  

FTZ II, without the tripod foot that blocks the vertical grip, specs and price same as the first version

 

Lens development announcement for the Z-mount 400mm/f2.8 with a built-in 1.4x teleconverter. That somewhat eases the need for a 600mm/f4 for the time being.

 

here in Europe it sells for 5.999€ which is 6.934 $....!

 

You Americans are lucky guys:-)

[Jean-Claude]

Most of us have to ask the question, "Will my wife kill me if I buy this?"

 

Yes, using the camera !

[conrad_hoffman]

Yes, using the camera !

Well, it's certainly big enough to do some damage.

[Dieter Schaefer]

here in Europe it sells for 5.999€ which is 6.934 $....!

Don't forget that prices in Europe include VAT, prices in the US don't. Which doesn't mean we don't have to pay it - in most cases, we'll have to. Which in my case raises the price to almost $6k. Still $1k less than in Europe though. But only because the California Use Tax for me is 8.75% and not like the VAT in Germany (19%), France (20%), or Sweden (25%). Which in the end makes the camera some $500 cheaper here in the US.

[Jean-Claude]

and 21% in Belgium

[Dieter Schaefer]

I wonder if Z-mount and adapted F-mount lenses have their aperture actuated for every frame when shooting at 20fps, 30fps, or even 120fps. I expect this not to be the case but of course don't know for sure.

[steve_gallimore1]

Most of us have to ask the question, "Will my wife kill me if I buy this?"

Talk about it endlessly, until finally she sighs and says "just buy the **** thing, at least that way I won't have to hear about it any more" :)

 

 

I love you dear and I have zero interest in buying another camera, don't worry.

For the time being...

[ShunCheung]

I wonder if Z-mount and adapted F-mount lenses have their aperture actuated for every frame when shooting at 20fps, 30fps, or even 120fps. I expect this not to be the case but of course don't know for sure.

The D6 can capture 14 fps only with E lenses. With the mechanical aperture control, it is 12 fps. Of course, with mirrorless, perhaps you don't need to open and close the aperture diaphragm for each frame. Or maybe things can work differently if your aperture is always wide open, which is often the case for long teles.

 

Currently I only use a couple of F-mount lenses on my Z bodies, namely the super-teles. I already have pretty good coverage on the wide end among my Z lenses.

[ilkka_nissila]

With the Z mount cameras, the aperture stays at the position set for taking the photos between shots unless a smaller aperture than f/5.6 is selected, in which case it opens up to f/5.6 for AF between shots and stops down for the duration of the exposure. So if using a reasonably fast lens at f/5.6 or wider, there is no delay from stopping down and opening up. The Z9, of course, could be different in this respect but I suspect it'll be similar.

 

F-mount cameras open the lens up to the maximum aperture between shots. So, stopping deep down can slow down bursts while shooting wide open you can get the maximum or close to it depending on other settings.

[mike_halliwell]

I read the spec about GPS, but wasn't sure if it was built in or could 'suck' the info from a nearby smart device?

[ilkka_nissila]

GPS is built into the D6 and Z9. No need for accessories for that.

[ilkka_nissila]

So if there is any aperture related focus shift it could be OOF?

 

I'm thinking about my Sigma 135mm 1.8 wide open......

 

With DSLRs, yes, there can be aperture related focus shifts. With a Z camera, this is avoided as the focusing aperture is the same as the picture is taken at, unless you use an aperture smaller than f/5.6. I believe most of the focus shift takes place at wider apertures so f/8 or f/11 should not l lead to problems, either.

Edited October 30, 2021 by ilkka_nissila

[mike_halliwell]

, in which case it opens up to f/5.6 for AF between shots and stops down for the duration of the exposure.

So if there is any aperture related focus shift it could be OOF?

 

I'm thinking about lenses like my Sigma 135mm 1.8 wide open......

[bgelfand]

It is also likely that the Z9 is manufactured in small quantities and so even if the money and willingness are there,

 

 

I am not so sure of that. I think Nikon has considerable wiggle room in the price of the Z9 and production, which is simpler for the Z9 will be limited only by demand.

 

When Nikon removed the shutter mechanism, they remove the last precision mechanical parts from the camera. Precision mechanical parts require the most time and manpower to fabricate. Compare the Z9 to the F6. The transition from film to digital removed the mechanical film transport, with all its moving parts, from the camera. The transition from DSLR to mirrorless removed the mirror mechanism and pentaprism an expensive set of mechanical and optical parts from the camera. Now the shutter mechanism is gone. That leaves switches (buttons and dials), the rear display mount, the lens mount (with its one button), doors, and CFExpress card holder as the last mechanical parts on the camera. With the exception of the lens mount, none of these are particularly precision parts.

 

The electronics are mostly chips, which are made by automated processes, and mounted on printed circuits, also an automated process. Once the development and tooling costs have been amortized and chip yields increase with time, production costs will drop. Of course, I expect Nikon to hold the price at what the market will bear and increase their margins for as long as they can, or at least until the other major manufacturers catch up.

 

Shun, you are an engineer, I would appreciate you thoughts on this. Me, I think removing the shutter is the game changer not only for Nikon but for the other camera makers who will be forced to follow.

[ShunCheung]

When Nikon introduced the D3 ($5000) and D300 ($2000) in 2007, they mentioned that the initial production was 8000 and 80,000 units a month, respectively. Shortly after that, due to demand, the production went up a bit in the following few months. At the time the D3 was manufactured in Japan while the D300 in Thailand. For a while the factory in Thailand was running 3 shifts, 24 hours a day.

 

$5500 is still a lot of money for a camera such that I think the demand won't be that crazy. What could be limiting Nikon is the availability of IC chips, especially the sensor and processor. Otherwise, Nikon is using a lot of robotics to manufacture mirrorless cameras. Most likely the factory workers in Thailand are vaccinated by now.

 

Back in 2016, Nikon announced the D5 in January at the CES. I waited a bit and ordered one from B&H. My wait was like 2 months and eventually received it in May or so. I had a trip to Africa scheduled in June that year, and I got the camera about a month before I left.

 

Due to Covid, I have no plan to travel for another year. It would be nice to have a Z9 to shoot at 20 fps, 30 fps, and 120 fps during the April hummingbird season, but I see no need to preorder the Z9 at this point. Let the pioneers check out the new cameras first.

Edited October 30, 2021 by ShunCheung

[conrad_hoffman]

How do you tell the pioneers? They're the one with the arrows in their backs.

 

As for precision parts, getting rid of the shutter is huge, but I bet the in-body stabilization is no picnic to make well.

[ShunCheung]

How do you tell the pioneers? They're the one with the arrows in their backs.

Those debug new products that benefits the rest of us. ;)

[Rob Davies]

It has just occurred to me (in one of those 'eureka' moments), if the protective shutter curtain closes when the camera is off then the sensor is no longer continuously exposed to light if you are not using a lens cap. Had been a small concern/gripe with the Z6.

[ShunCheung]

The Z6 has a mechanical shutter. I think having a shutter and a mechanical sensor cover in parallel will be very delicate.

[ShunCheung]

Saw my Nikon rep at a local camera store this afternoon. He had a pre-production Z9. Of course I am used to big bodies, but the Z9 doesn’t feel heavy. It is a little smaller than the D4, 5, and 6.

 

He said Nikon USA had 12 of those for the various pundits to prepare their YouTube videos. And the first shipment should be available towards the end of the year.

[conrad_hoffman]

Very cool. As for the exposed to light issue, I don't know how much it matters. I do know that it's an issue with astro cameras, though I don't remember the exact problem it causes. There's a trick for quickly fixing it- you flood the sensor with red light for a time.

[raczoliver]

This may be basic, but how would one use studio strobes (or any flash for that matter) with electronic shutter? Is there a minimum sync speed?

[ilkka_nissila]

The flash sync speed isn't quite clear but both 1/200s and 1/250s are quoted in the specifications (with the caveat that the GN is slightly lower at 1/250s). Up to 1/8000s is available with auto FP sync.